BoxRec

Seamus wrote:Leonard by a clearcut decision. He was better in just about every conceivable category. Gavilan gave a good performance against Robinson, but don't forget that around the same time he also dropped a pair of decisions to clubfighter Doug Ratford.

Well he had his share of losses but he wasn't as protected as Leonard.

Back then they fought all the time, he might of not been feeling well or might not have been in the best of shape.

Grimm wrote:

Seamus wrote:Leonard by a clearcut decision. He was better in just about every conceivable category. Gavilan gave a good performance against Robinson, but don't forget that around the same time he also dropped a pair of decisions to clubfighter Doug Ratford.

Well he had his share of losses but he wasn't as protected as Leonard.

Back then they fought all the time, he might of not been feeling well or might not have been in the best of shape.

Very good point... people dont take account of the fact that Gavilan fought often a couple of times a month and when you do that you're bound to get offnights... if Leonard had fought so often he would have been beaten far more... as it is many of Gavilans losses were disputed and controversial...

If a fighter has had over a hundred fights he will have some contraversial losses but will also have some contraversial wins. I never followed Gavilans career a whole lot but he has been shown on ESPN classic fights a couple of times. Flashy and fleet he may be but Ray had power and used it to great effect. I still remeber vividly the two punch combo he put Davey Boy Green to sleep with. I think he walks right through anything Gavilan throws and rips through with big shots and lightning combinations.

kick asner wrote:If a fighter has had over a hundred fights he will have some contraversial losses but will also have some contraversial wins. I never followed Gavilans career a whole lot but he has been shown on ESPN classic fights a couple of times. Flashy and fleet he may be but Ray had power and used it to great effect. I still remeber vividly the two punch combo he put Davey Boy Green to sleep with. I think he walks right through anything Gavilan throws and rips through with big shots and lightning combinations.

At the same time I could see Gavilan walking through anything Ray had to throw, even if Leonard could hit hard he didn't hit hard enough to do anything to Gavilan.

kick asner wrote: I still remeber vividly the two punch combo he put Davey Boy Green to sleep with.

Dave Boy Green had been retired.

He came back for the payday with Leonard (Angelo Dundee chose them carefully).

I went over to the hotel where Green was staying before the fight--which had a sign in the lobby that the fighters' sparring would be public.

I asked at the desk how I could see Green work out before the fight.

They told me at the desk, "Oh, he doesn't work out. He did show up for the press conference when he got here, but since then he doesn't do anything except go out shopping or stay in his room. "

And you thrilled to Leonard's win over a a retired, totally inactive Dave Boy Green.

I love it.

kick asner wrote:
I never followed Gavilans career a whole lot

Then why are you taking up space here writing about a fighter you are unfamiliar with?

Grimm wrote:At the same time I could see Gavilan walking through anything Ray had to throw, even if Leonard could hit hard he didn't hit hard enough to do anything to Gavilan.

Sugar Ray Robinson fought Gavilan twice. They were bitter rivals.

Robinson never knocked Gavilan down in a total of 25 rounds they fought.

Robinson said he landed his best right hand on Gavilan's chin and waited for Gavilan to go down. Instead, Robinson said Gavilan's eyes crossed briefly and then he came straight on forward.

Robinson said after that he revised his fight plan and worked to win a decision.

In their 15 round title fight Robinson was cut in an early round and bled throughout the fight

Gavilan was the only human being I've seen whose neck was wider than his head if you looked at him straight on from the front.

Gavilan beat a number of good middleweightsa. He knocked out Walter Cartier and Tony Janiro and beat Tiger Jones, Eduardo Lausse, Ernie Durando, Chico Vejar, and Gene Hairston. Gavilan lost a decision to Bobo Olson for the middleweight title.

Gavilan had endless endurance.

Leonard would not have able to hurt him, and after a fight between the two went some distance Leonard would run of gas and Gavilan would be all over him.

Gavilan was the underdog to challenger Gil Turner (who was undefeated ) in their welterweight title fight but he took Turner's best right hands and came on late to stop Turner for Turner's first loss.

It wasn't easy to win a title in those days.

granberry wrote:

Grimm wrote:At the same time I could see Gavilan walking through anything Ray had to throw, even if Leonard could hit hard he didn't hit hard enough to do anything to Gavilan.

Sugar Ray Robinson fought Gavilan twice. They were bitter rivals.

Robinson never knocked Gavilan down in a total of 25 rounds they fought.

Robinson said he landed his best right hand on Gavilan's chin and waited for Gavilan to go down. Instead, Robinson said Gavilan's eyes crossed briefly and then he came straight on forward.

Robinson said after that he revised his fight plan and worked to win a decision.

In their 15 round title fight Robinson was cut in an early round and bled throughout the fight

Gavilan was the only human being I've seen whose neck was wider than his head if you looked at him straight on from the front.

Gavilan beat a number of good middleweightsa. He knocked out Walter Cartier and Tony Janiro and beat Tiger Jones, Eduardo Lausse, Ernie Durando, Chico Vejar, and Gene Hairston. Gavilan lost a decision to Bobo Olson for the middleweight title.

Gavilan had endless endurance.

Leonard would not have able to hurt him, and after a fight between the two went some distance Leonard would run of gas and Gavilan would be all over him.

Gavilan was the underdog to challenger Gil Turner (who was undefeated ) in their welterweight title fight but he took Turner's best right hands and came on late to stop Turner for Turner's first loss.

It wasn't easy to win a title in those days.

Thats kind of what I was saying.

Grimm wrote:

granberry wrote:

Grimm wrote:At the same time I could see Gavilan walking through anything Ray had to throw, even if Leonard could hit hard he didn't hit hard enough to do anything to Gavilan.

Sugar Ray Robinson fought Gavilan twice. They were bitter rivals.

Robinson never knocked Gavilan down in a total of 25 rounds they fought.

Robinson said he landed his best right hand on Gavilan's chin and waited for Gavilan to go down. Instead, Robinson said Gavilan's eyes crossed briefly and then he came straight on forward.

Robinson said after that he revised his fight plan and worked to win a decision.

In their 15 round title fight Robinson was cut in an early round and bled throughout the fight

Gavilan was the only human being I've seen whose neck was wider than his head if you looked at him straight on from the front.

Gavilan beat a number of good middleweightsa. He knocked out Walter Cartier and Tony Janiro and beat Tiger Jones, Eduardo Lausse, Ernie Durando, Chico Vejar, and Gene Hairston. Gavilan lost a decision to Bobo Olson for the middleweight title.

Gavilan had endless endurance.

Leonard would not have able to hurt him, and after a fight between the two went some distance Leonard would run of gas and Gavilan would be all over him.

Gavilan was the underdog to challenger Gil Turner (who was undefeated ) in their welterweight title fight but he took Turner's best right hands and came on late to stop Turner for Turner's first loss.

It wasn't easy to win a title in those days.

Thats kind of what I was saying.

Exactly.

granberry wrote:

kick asner wrote: I still remeber vividly the two punch combo he put Davey Boy Green to sleep with.

Dave Boy Green had been retired.

He came back for the payday with Leonard (Angelo Dundee chose them carefully).

I went over to the hotel where Green was staying before the fight--which had a sign in the lobby that the fighters' sparring would be public.

I asked at the desk how I could see Green work out before the fight.

They told me at the desk, "Oh, he doesn't work out. He did show up for the press conference when he got here, but since then he doesn't do anything except go out shopping or stay in his room. "

And you thrilled to Leonard's win over a a retired, totally inactive Dave Boy Green.

I love it.

Green had less than a four month lapse prior to his last fight when he fought Leonard and was still in his twenties. As far as him not working out that has been a trick used by fighters to go around and say they are not working out to give a false impression to their opponent and I would not take a desk clerks word for it. I didn't say he was a great fighter but a tough and respectable one.

granberry wrote:

kick asner wrote:
I never followed Gavilans career a whole lot

Then why are you taking up space here writing about a fighter you are unfamiliar with?

I didn't realise I had to post at you're discretion.

Well to answer your question this is an open forum with a diverse group of boxing fans and when I get the chance I like to read some of the comments and ocasionally make a post. You're the first person who seems to object to that. I have reviewed the forum rules and unless they have been changed since then nowhere has it said you have to be an expert (which I know I am not) to post in here.

Most of my knowlege of the fight game is from a later date than Gavilan fought but fortunatly he has been shown on ESPN classics and from what I have seen of him he was a very good and slick boxer but not quite enough fire power to deal with Ray. Just a difference of opinion, not a big deal.

granberry wrote:

kick asner wrote: I still remeber vividly the two punch combo he put Davey Boy Green to sleep with.

Dave Boy Green had been retired.

He came back for the payday with Leonard (Angelo Dundee chose them carefully).

I went over to the hotel where Green was staying before the fight--which had a sign in the lobby that the fighters' sparring would be public.

I asked at the desk how I could see Green work out before the fight.

They told me at the desk, "Oh, he doesn't work out. He did show up for the press conference when he got here, but since then he doesn't do anything except go out shopping or stay in his room. "

And you thrilled to Leonard's win over a a retired, totally inactive Dave Boy Green.

I love it.

Cranberry, where did you get that story about Green coming out of retirement to meet Leonard? Do you just make this stuff up?

If you HAD actually been around boxing at the time and weren't just a blowhard dreamer you'd have said something like "Any fighter that had been recently KO'd by Jorgen Hansen had no right to be in the ring with Leonard." Then people might think you actually knew something about that era.

OMG GRANBERRY IS TERAP!


all that praise for harold johnson, all that talk about the referee screwing harold johnson in the moore title fight by giving moore a 8 count, all this bashing of ali, plus terap was live at alot of the old time events like granberry just admitted he was.


welcome back terap

See how much better your cognitive reasoning works when you're sober Brockton.