BoxRec

i think no one beats ali in 67, only joe can come close

joe louis would have beaten muhammad ali. he never faced a puncher like joe louis.


i know u guys will respond with he took punches from liston, frazier, foreman and shavers.

well the difference between louis and them were louis threw much shorter faster and SHARPER punches while they threw big clubbing blows.

and ali had trouble with fast sharp punches.

the most ali was ever hurt was when a 185 lb henry cooper hit him with a fast sharp left hook. foreman and shavers couldnt do what cooper did.

I agree with those who think that Louis would have the best chance,his combination of speed,power,and textbook combinations could certainly give Ali trouble.Plus he was around Ali's size(6'1",200 lbs to 6'3" 210).I also think that very few fights Ali might have against these top echelon heavies(Louis,Marciano,Holmes,and a few others)would very often be one sided either way.

I agree all the way with Ambling Alp. I see Ali's prime being 1965-67 and at this time in his career, I can't see Frazier landing half as much shots as he did in '71'....Ali's footwork was exceptional and his speed was grease lightning. Foreman tthe same, he wouldn't have got near as close as he did in Zaire....As for Louis, I love him as a fighter, but he was too much of a shuffler to get near a peak Ali. His footwork would not allow him near Ali, Ali just too fast for Joe Louis...

walshb wrote:I agree all the way with Ambling Alp. I see Ali's prime being 1965-67 and at this time in his career, I can't see Frazier landing half as much shots as he did in '71'....Ali's footwork was exceptional and his speed was grease lightning. Foreman tthe same, he wouldn't have got near as close as he did in Zaire....As for Louis, I love him as a fighter, but he was too much of a shuffler to get near a peak Ali. His footwork would not allow him near Ali, Ali just too fast for Joe Louis...

Probably the fastest in all HW story

Just wanted to add that way too much attention is paid to Ali's knockdown to Cooper. First of all, it's debateable if this should even be considered in Ali's prime. He was only 21 and his third year as a pro. This was a good learning experience for him against a tough veteran. When Ali fought Cooper again 3 years later he stopped Cooper easily.
Ali did get up and won the fight. He dominated that fight except for the knockdown It would be 8 years before he was knocked down again. Louis was knocked down a lot more times by Ali, yet this is hardly ever mentioned. The theory seems to be that if Cooper could knock down Ali, than Louis would knock Ali out. If you use that logic, then if Jim Braddock(who couldn't hit all) could knock down Louis, Ali would knockout Louis.
Ali fought all kinds of fighter throughout his career and nobody could do. Fighters nowhere near Ali's class did go the distance with Louis.

Some have mentioned that fast punchers gave him problems. Well, Patterson was one of the fastest (certainly faster than Louis) and Ali had little problem with him.
This isn't mean to slam Louis. I would probably pick him against almost anyone else.
As for Liston, no way. Liston couldn't even hurt Ali when Ali was blind for 2 minutes in their first fight. Sure people will say that Liston was washed up. but nobody was saying that before the fight. Ali made a great fighter look mediocre. He was that great.
Ali wasn't just undefeated from 1964-1967. He was never knocked down, never hurt, never came remotely close to losing. Once again, what other heavyweight can you say that about?

I'd pick Joe Louis. And I would have loved to have seen a prime Holyfield fight a prime Ali.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: i know u guys will respond with he took punches from liston, frazier, foreman and shavers.

well the difference between louis and them were louis threw much shorter faster and SHARPER punches while they threw big clubbing blows.

Joe Frazier did not throw "big clubbing blows". While he sometimes did crank them up, in general his punches were very fast and "sharp", especially the left hook.

The greatest thing about a Louis-Ali theoretical is that these guys are evenly matched with skills, talent and heart. This would be a chess match to some degree as these are the two most brilliant fighters the world has ever seen. I mean they both had a genuis when it came to figuring out a plan that would see them through to victory, sometimes reinventing themselves within the course of 15 rounds.

I've gone on record favoring Ali in 2 out of 3. But it would be next to impossible to honestly predict. Anything anyone can even imagine in terms of how this would play out would be dwarfed by the fast creative thinking that would be taking place between these two guys as they faced each other in the ring. I'd predict some big surprises by both of them, My guess is they are both going down somewhere along the way and they both will be standing at the end. The very meaing of Ebb and Flow would probably be newy defined

The judges just might have some serious work on their hands. I think I would prefer a scenario where the Referee had a say in the outcome as well. I always liked that idea. Providing the ref was purely honest.

a prime holyfield gets KO by a prime Ali in 4 rounds. EASY. evander is a natural cruiserweight

Rory McCloskey wrote:a prime holyfield gets KO by a prime Ali in 4 rounds. EASY. evander is a natural cruiserweight

WOW! How long would Braddock have lasted? He was a natural LH.

I think that one goes the distance, Evander is not easily dispatched.

its not the weight that would prevent evander from being competetive. its the skill. evanders biggest asset is his heart, and toughness. evander however is limited in tools. hes not great in anything. hes a good counterpunch and good body puncher, but doesnt have one punch KO power, doest have great boxing skills, defense, jab, speed, etc and also has very poor stamina.

i think ali stops him late out on his feet, since evander has stamina problems.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:its not the weight that would prevent evander from being competetive. its the skill. evanders biggest asset is his heart, and toughness. evander however is limited in tools. hes not great in anything. hes a good counterpunch and good body puncher, but doesnt have one punch KO power, doest have great boxing skills, defense, jab, speed, etc and also has very poor stamina.

i think ali stops him late out on his feet, since evander has stamina problems.

Brockton, have you ever seen fights where Holyfield actually chooses to box? He could box very well. Why he wouldn't box the whole fight could very well be attributed to his "lack of stamina"; though watching him brawl with someone for 12 rds, ya gotta have stamina for that. I think he just liked to mix it up with fighters. Look at Gatti - he could really box, but decided to become a brawler. In his later fights, one would see flashes of Gatti's boxing abilities before he started brawling again.