Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑19 Dec 2025, 18:16
Louis fought four former heavyweight champions before he got a title shot. (Carnera, Baer, Schmeling and Sharkey).
Then fought four more guys who were hw champions at one time or another. (Braddock, Walcott, Charles and Marciano). Several good contenders as well throughout his career. He has to be up there.
Would be interesting to take a really deep dive into all of these guys.
I've been working on it. It's been a fun little side project when I got time to waste, and I agree about Louis surely being 3 or so. Jack Johnson would probably be high on the list of competition as well because his competition was extremely stiff prior to winning the Championship, and he fought a few noteworthy's after winning it as well.
Ezzard Charles of course consistently fought stellar competition throughout his career, and Heavyweight was no exception. Those 5 would probably be the Top 5 as far as the quality of the competition they fought.
I'm really interested in your scoring system and wonder how guys like Louis and Johnson would do. That's a hint by the way.
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑19 Dec 2025, 18:16
Louis fought four former heavyweight champions before he got a title shot. (Carnera, Baer, Schmeling and Sharkey).
Then fought four more guys who were hw champions at one time or another. (Braddock, Walcott, Charles and Marciano). Several good contenders as well throughout his career. He has to be up there.
Would be interesting to take a really deep dive into all of these guys.
I've been working on it. It's been a fun little side project when I got time to waste, and I agree about Louis surely being 3 or so. Jack Johnson would probably be high on the list of competition as well because his competition was extremely stiff prior to winning the Championship, and he fought a few noteworthy's after winning it as well.
Ezzard Charles of course consistently fought stellar competition throughout his career, and Heavyweight was no exception. Those 5 would probably be the Top 5 as far as the quality of the competition they fought.
I'm really interested in your scoring system and wonder how guys like Louis and Johnson would do. That's a hint by the way.
Well Jack Johnson, and the dudes from WAYYYYY back that I can't find video footage of will be some of the last Heavyweights that I ever factor in with my scoring system, but just looking at his record will tell you that his level of competition especially in his Pre-Championship days was stellar.
Louis is going to wind up scoring extremely well with so many title defenses. So many exciting KO wins, Some of the best competition of any other Heavyweight and so relatively few losses.
I haven't broken it all down for Joe yet, but his score will be hard to top when I do I'd imagine.
When doing this, we really have to make sure to factor in the stage of the opponent's career.
Anyway, Ali obviously had the best. The Top contenders:
Louis - Doesn't have one that is awesome. Several big fights though: Baer, Schmeling 2x, Walcott 2x, Charles, and Marciano. also had decent ones with Carnera, Godoy 2x, Simon 2x, Buddy Baer 2x. You could argue for old Sharkey, Mann and Pastor 2x.
Frazier - Ali 3x and Foreman 2x. Good opponents with Bonavena 2x, Chuvalo, Ellis, (first one anyway) Quarry 2x, Bugner Mathis.
Holyfield - Bowe 3x, Tyson 2x and Lewis 2x. Quality competition in Thomas, Dokes, and Mercer. Debatable how much credit he should get vs Foreman, Holmes, Moorer and Douglas.
Foreman - Ali, Frazier 2x, Holyfield, and Norton. Quality competition in Lyle and Young, Also Chuvalo, Moorer, and Morrison.
Next group:
Holmes - Holyfield, Tyson, and Norton. Quality competition with Shavers 2x, Berbick, Cooney, Snipes, Witherspoon, Smith, Williams, Spinks 2x, Mercer, and McCall.
Marciano - Charles 2x, Walcott 2x (first one anyway.) Quality competition vs LaStarza 2x, Moore and old Louis. Layne would be debatable.
Liston - Ali 2x. Patterson 2x. Quality competition with Machen, Folley, Williams 2x, and DeJohn.
Tyson - Past their best Holyfield, Lewis, and Douglas on his best night would be the best. Quality opponents with Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Tubbs, spinks, Bruno 2x, Ruddock 2x. Williams would be borderline.
Lewis - Nothing that blows your mind, but a lot of quality - Ruddock, Bruno, McCall, Morrison, Mercer, Tua, Rahman. How much for a fading Holyfield is debatable. How much credit he should get for Tyson and Grant is hard to say.
Some Borderline line contenders: Johnson -Probably hardest guy to rate. Fought 9 Hall of Famers, but you could argue that the opponent was not near his prime in most of them. Title defenses that didn't happen against Langford, McVey and Jeannette would have help his case a lot. On his way up, had good opponents that get no attention anymore.
Jeffries- Johnson was by far his best. How much credit he should get for Corbett, Fitzsimmons, and Sharkey is debatable. Ruhlin is underrated.
Dempsey - Tunney and Sharkey are his best. Had a lot of tough competition on his way up -Miske, Smith, Brennan, and Fulton. Willard was old and rusty when he destroyed him. Firpo, Brennan, and Miske were good title defenses.
