BoxRec

I stand corrected, and thank you editor. Somehow I missed that. But he sure didn't stay at Jr. Middle, now did he?

theone wrote:actually Whitaker won titles in four weight classes. Haglars toughest fights were against sugar ray Leonard(lost),Duran(close fight) and Hearns who hurt him more than any other fighter had ever did. Throw in a tough scrap with mugabi and you have a four naturally smaller guys coming up in weight and giving the champ hell. almost all of the other fighters he fought as champ were one dimensional sluggers. whitaker fought a wider assortment of fighters and was almost always the naturally smaller fighter in most of his wins.
Now im not saying Haglar wasnt great; i rank him the fourth greatest middleweight of all time after Greb,Monzon,and Robinson, but i am saying that whitaker was better.

Hagler's toughest fights were the ones you listed above? You obviously had not watched some of Hagler's earlier fights then.

wlvrne wrote:I stand corrected, and thank you editor. Somehow I missed that. But he sure didn't stay at Jr. Middle, now did he?

I never saw the fight but I am sure I remember reading that Pernell Whitaker was hurt and dropped in this fight. I maybe wrong..... but I am sure there are others here who saw the fight.

But you are right Pernell Whitaker found the waters a bit too deep at 154lbs and dropped straight back down to Welterweight.

elmersalsa wrote:The very best southpaws:

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Marvin Hagler
3. Freddie Miller
4. Vicente Saldivar
5. Nicolino Locche??? Was he a southpaw???

Locche was righthanded

wlvrne, if hagler had tougher fights with other fighters, than those tougher fights came against lesser opponents than the ones Imentioned. Absolutely nobody he fought before measured up to the fighters I mentioned.

theone wrote:wlvrne, if hagler had tougher fights with other fighters, than those tougher fights came against lesser opponents than the ones Imentioned. Absolutely nobody he fought before measured up to the fighters I mentioned.

That's only your opinion. My opinion differs from your's. It doesn't mean you're right & I'm wrong. It doesn't mean I'm right & you're wrong. It means that you have a very biased opinion against Hagler's opposition. And probably have not watched his earlier fights.

Firstly i respect your opinion wlvrne, and if it read like i didnt then i apologize. I just love spirited debates with other passionate fans of the worlds greatest sport.
Secondly I have no bias towards Haglar; ive am a big fan of Hagers and have seen many of his early fights. In fact I like Haglar alot better than Whitaker, but believe Whitaker was the better fighter p4p. I'm not bad mouthing haglar at all, like i said i think he is the fourth greatest middleweight of all time. I'm just pointing out why I give the edge to Whitaker as the better fighter. And about Haglars early opponents,you really believe that Sugar Ray Seales, Boogaloo Watts Vito Antefurmo(who i know personally)and a faded Benny Briscoe were better than Hearns, Leonard, Duran and Mugabi?

At that time when Hagler was facing these guys, they were to Hagler what Mubagi, Hearns, Leonard and Duran were.
Did these guys go on to the level of greatness that the Fab-4 did? No. But, did they give Hagler as good a fight as the Fab-4 did when Hagler fought them at that point in his career? Yes.
These were not easy wins for Hagler. And he lost to Watts and Willie Monroe - losses he later avenged. He scored a controversial draw against Vito; I thought Hagler clearly won that fight. Hagler fought everyone who would get into the ring with him and ducked nobody. There were fighters who did not want to fight him because he would have beaten them. And just because he was able to blow away alot of his opponents, doens't mean they were bums or easy fights; it's a testament to how good Hagler actually was.
Pernell was the consumate boxer. Hagler was the better fighter. I'm drawing a contrast here because I felt that Pernell lacked KO power. Hagler had it.
And really, Hearns and Mugabi did not really move "up" in weight to fight Marvin. Mugabi and Hearns IMO were like Gatti, weighing in lower to fight at that weight class but actually heavier the day of the fight.

Power is just one aspect of boxing. Haglar had the p4p power advantage over whitaker for sure. But Whitaker was faster, technically sounder, and had waaaay better defense.

theone wrote:Power is just one aspect of boxing. Haglar had the p4p power advantage over whitaker for sure. But Whitaker was faster, technically sounder, and had waaaay better defense.

I'll give you that. That's why I did say Sweet Pea was the consumate boxer. I don't know of any fighter that was harder to hit. I'm sure some one will dig into their archives and come up with some names. Southpaws, that is.