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Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 22:20
by theone
but let's be honest. Julio great as he was, he was easy to outbox and easy to hit. Once a fighter had speed, stamina and movement...Chavez had trouble
huh? Chavez had 89 wins bofore the draw with Whitaker and had fought every type of fighter you could imagine. Before that the man seemed invincible having beaten every style you could imagine and having mostly an easy time of it. Chavez was not considered the heavy favorite over Whitaker before the fight for nothing.
Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 22:25
by theone
At 130 or 135 or 140 and 147 DLH would have outboxed Chavez in their respective primes.
i have to disagree with this one. chavez was waaaay past his prime when the two fought. In his prime at lightweight or even his early Jr Welter days, Chavez beats Delahoya in a tough but clear cut 12 round decision win.
this
Posted: 22 Sep 2005, 07:24
by wlvrne
theone, you need to re-read. I said if they had met in their RESPECTIVE primes - not when DLH handled the already fading great Chavez.
Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 05:06
by lumpymo
elmersalsa wrote:Seamus wrote:Overall career wise, Chavez had seen better days, but in all honesty the guy who lost to Whitaker that night in my opinion would still have destroyed Randall, DeLaHoya, Tszyu or Gonzalez. Julio Cesar Chavez was probably more motivated for that fight than any other of his career, just watch the way he goes after Whitaker in the early rounds. That's what makes Whitaker's performance so incredible. Coming into that fight I said that Whitaker had one possible way he could beat Chavez, and that was if he was perfect for 12 rounds. Whitaker was perfect for 12 rounds ! In fact in my opinion, the Pernell Whitaker that showed up in the Alamodome that night would have beaten DeLaHoya, Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Trinidad, Napoles and any other Welterweight in history.
I completely AGREE!!! 
I have to disagree, Chavez was not a one punch knockout puncher and he was no welterweight, he left his punching power and strength back at junior welterweight and was even better and stronger at lightweight. I had Chavez beating Whitaker that night, you can't win a fight by not fighting, just like I had Ramirez win the night he defended his lightweight title against Whitaker who ran around like a scared rabbit that night!
cheers M.O.
Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 06:07
by silkov
lumpymo wrote:elmersalsa wrote:Seamus wrote:Overall career wise, Chavez had seen better days, but in all honesty the guy who lost to Whitaker that night in my opinion would still have destroyed Randall, DeLaHoya, Tszyu or Gonzalez. Julio Cesar Chavez was probably more motivated for that fight than any other of his career, just watch the way he goes after Whitaker in the early rounds. That's what makes Whitaker's performance so incredible. Coming into that fight I said that Whitaker had one possible way he could beat Chavez, and that was if he was perfect for 12 rounds. Whitaker was perfect for 12 rounds ! In fact in my opinion, the Pernell Whitaker that showed up in the Alamodome that night would have beaten DeLaHoya, Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Trinidad, Napoles and any other Welterweight in history.
I completely AGREE!!!
I have to disagree, Chavez was not a one punch knockout puncher and he was no welterweight, he left his punching power and strength back at junior welterweight and was even better and stronger at lightweight. I had Chavez beating Whitaker that night, you can't win a fight by not fighting, just like I had Ramirez win the night he defended his lightweight title against Whitaker who ran around like a scared rabbit that night!
cheers M.O.
With respect you need to rewatch the fight Lumpy!. What Whitaker did that night was put on an exhibition of boxing!... to say he fought like a 'scared rabbit' is to show a lack of understanding and respect for the science of the game.
Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 16:55
by lumpymo
silkov wrote:
With respect you need to rewatch the fight Lumpy!. What Whitaker did that night was put on an exhibition of boxing!... to say he fought like a 'scared rabbit' is to show a lack of understanding and respect for the science of the game.
The fight I was talking about him fighting like the "rabbit" was his fight with Jose luis Ramirez. With regards to the Chavez fight I said you can't win a fight without fighting, if not for Chavez there would not have been a fight that night.
cheers M.O.
Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 17:06
by lumpymo
walshb wrote:Seamus, to try to say that the Whitaker that faced Chavez would have beat Ray Leonard is absolutely absurd. Pernell never was a real Welter, not close. Leonard would have bulled him in 3-4 rds, as would any true Welter in history...Whitaker is beautiful to watch, but let's be honest. Julio great as he was, he was easy to outbox and easy to hit. Once a fighter had speed, stamina and movement...Chavez had trouble
If you watch Chavez fight in the days when he was dominating, you will see a fighter with exceptional stamina and a gifted defensive fighter, not one who leads with his face as some of you seem to feel. Punches are sliped and slid by harmlessly within a fraction of an inch of fighters faces. Arms, hands, elbows deflect blows and are not just for inflicking damage, some of you should watch his fights more closely. Whitaker was an exceptionally gifted defensive wizard, but he was also one who would rather slip and slid away rather than actually fight.
cheers M.O.
Posted: 30 Sep 2005, 11:48
by walshb
Does anyone else think that the Whitaker that drew with Chavez was nothing special as a Welter, would he have beat Duran, Leonard, Breland, Curry, Trinidad etc etc. I say absolutely no way. He was physically just too small...blown up Lightweight...
Posted: 30 Sep 2005, 12:15
by silkov
walshb wrote:Does anyone else think that the Whitaker that drew with Chavez was nothing special as a Welter, would he have beat Duran, Leonard, Breland, Curry, Trinidad etc etc. I say absolutely no way. He was physically just too small...blown up Lightweight...
He wouldn't have beaten Duran at welter but he'd have beaten a good few other welterweights. Pernall was still a excellent boxer at 147 and he was robbed against Delahoya imo.