BoxRec

and how long ago was that exactly.

nearly two years? so much for it bieng who would beat who on present form then!

Jones beat barerra twice as well doesnt mean he will go down as the better fighter.

stujones wrote:I know its subjective but you've GOT to have Taylor above Hopkins. He won, they are both Middleweights - simple as.

Taylor is ranked higher than Hopkins at Middleweight, so he's got to be ranked higher in the P4P sense.

Different scenerio's are Winky Wright and Oscar De La Hoya who both have had a good career at a lower weight. If Wright lost honourably to Taylor than you can still argue the point of Wright being ranked above him P4P, same with DLH. However, Taylor and Hopkins are the same weight throughout their career.

I think even if Hopkins dismantles Taylor in the first round he won't regain that #1 position - he has proven now to be beatable, he'd probably have to beat Taylor and Wright to regain the #1 position for me.

No you don't. I don't agree that if fighter A loses to fighter B, that the other fighter takes their place.

As for some of the arguments on here they are ridiculous. Hopkins has run the middleweight division for a very long time now, he battered Trinidad (a better version of trinidad than the one Winky beat by far) and ran Taylor very close indeed, and has an unparralelled record in the division.

Now, Taylor for me doesn't make top 10, because he has one razor thin win over Hopkins, no goddam way.

As for saying that's like saying Roy Jones is still P4P #1, well that's just plain stupid, Jones got absolutely battered twice in a row, whereas Hopkins lost a split decision, big fornicating difference.

Too many people elevate fighters way up the rankings based on one win, like they did with Mosley, then Forrest, then Mayorga, then Spinks, then Judah, which just proves how stupid that line of argument is.

Hopkins should still be in the top 10, and probably top 5 in my book, Taylor doesn't make my top 10, not yet, not until he proves himself.

You surely have to take into account a fighters career achievements. Hatton isn't top 10 either, but the manner of Tszyu's defeat drops him down the list significantly.

I never said its a bit like having RJJ a number 1 now (I do ask where will RJJ feature should he whoop Tarver). Thats why I called it mission impossible - for me I have to have a few positions with the words "vacant" in it. Hopkins though for that solidary defeat has to slip a bit further than most.

Its a bit harsh on Taylor, in the past he beat a former World Middleweight champion, a former Light Middleweight champion a former NABF champion. He was geniunally ranked 2-3 independently when he fought Hopkins and he beat him. What more does he need to prove himself, will a repeat victory (in a similar manner) be enough? Its going to be "the Hopkins is past it" routine and Taylor won't get P4P ranked. Does it mean he needs to beat Winky to install him into the top 10? I mean Hopkins didn't prove himself against an opponent as dangerous as Winky (naturally bigger than Hopkins' best wins - DLH and Trinidad) and yet he was P4P number 1 for a while.

Cory Spinks got ranked in the top 10 based on one good win (vs Mayorga) the Spinks win mainly consolidated it. Very similar scenerio here, Mayorga vs Spinks was a razor tight decision and somewhat controvesial (I fail to see the controvesy) and Spinks had done little to prove himself before that one win. Yes, he held the IBF belt - but could Taylor help that Bernard had all the belts, in my opinion the Joppy win is as good as Spinks' Piccirillo win.

I admit its hard to place a ranking Taylor while the second fight has been scheduled due to the fact that fight number 1 was so close. But to have Hopkins ranked 2 (one posters view) and Taylor way out of contention is a bit rediculous - the closeness of the bout show how close these to are too each other. Yet there is a big devide in the rankings.

Yes, I think you can have a lower ranked fighter in the devision ranked higher in a P4P sense. I have Wright at #3 at Middleweight but higher than both in a P4P sense - that is based on his past performances at a lower weight. Similarly with Mayweather and Hatton and Toney and the heavyweights. However, when you have two guys fighting at the same weight throughout then I think you have to look at their current ranking as one of the main criteria for a P4P sense.

As for Barrera / Morales and Pacquiao - well I think of them now as all Super Featherweights, Pacquiao might have had more direct success vs Barrera, but at Super Feather he is 1-1 whereas Marco has beaten the guy who WENT on to beat him and is a partially unfied champion and is 3-0 at the weight.

Morales is another toughie about where to rank, he was so impressive vs Manny, but lost convincingly vs Raheem. Is it Raheem who moves up? Is it Morales who moves down (to below Pacquiao) or do they stay the same because Raheem hasn't "proven" himself? That was the whole purpose of the thread.

It is a mission impossible at the moment for me, I don't like to flucate the P4P rankings but I feel I probably (and temporarily) will have to put both Hopkins and Taylor a little lower than I would like (Bottom end of the 10) untill the rematch, the winner would move up considerably - loser would probably move out of the ten.

at the end of the day you can see just by this thread how difficult it is, as its sp personal.

Some poeple do it based soley on who beats who weight being equal, some put more epmhasis on historical achievement etc.

depends which camp you fall in i guess.

to be frank there is no wrong or right cos its so hyperthetical.

all you can go on is what you perceive to be the correct order.