Witter would be WBO champ if he took up the Cotto fight

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 27 Sep 2005, 18:38

Hindsight now would give them the benefit not to stand in distance like Cotto did.

My point is that Cotto even having been shaken to his boots still came right back and...won a stoppage.

How many of the others would have dogged it??

We know his tactics were all wrong now with hindsight, sure he could have kept more distance after he`d been rocked..I`m sure if he had done that he`d have had to go the distance or at the very least another few rnds..but I`m sure you and others would have questioned his heart..but he stuck to it, broke Torres heart and got him out of there.

Why are people so quick to critisize if a fighter gets knocked down or even rocked

boxers are human after all....I think Cotto did an excellent job against Torres..we obviously look for different things in our boxers but a winner is a winner..and in this game 2nd place is for the losers

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 28 Sep 2005, 04:16

Cotto would chin Witter.

Anyone who believes otherwise is a mug..

J · Post by J » 28 Sep 2005, 04:49

tonyevs wrote:Hindsight now would give them the benefit not to stand in distance like Cotto did.

My point is that Cotto even having been shaken to his boots still came right back and...won a stoppage.

How many of the others would have dogged it??

We know his tactics were all wrong now with hindsight, sure he could have kept more distance after he`d been rocked..I`m sure if he had done that he`d have had to go the distance or at the very least another few rnds..but I`m sure you and others would have questioned his heart..but he stuck to it, broke Torres heart and got him out of there.

Why are people so quick to critisize if a fighter gets knocked down or even rocked boxers are human after all....I think Cotto did an excellent job against Torres..we obviously look for different things in our boxers but a winner is a winner..and in this game 2nd place is for the losers

no an excellent job woudl have been a controlled victory, boxing from the outside using his skills then upping the tempo and taking the guy out after 6 rounds. thats what the match had written all over it.

come on, admit you are a cotto fan trying to put a positive slant on this.

fact is cotto got dropped by a guy who relaisitically wasnt in the top 15.

If you cant admit that then fair enough we all have our favourties but I dont think you are giving an unbiased view.

Yet people are still banging on about hatton getting cold cocked by magee over 3 years ago but cotto put in a tremendous performance hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

Dont get me wrong im happy to watch cotto in battles like that every week, but as a performance in terms of Cotto's abilities and hype,. it was piss poor.

He should have been sparked inthe 2nd & 5th and took a lot of punishment, lets put it this way ill bet his trainers werent too happy with the way it went.

chief · Post by **chief** » 28 Sep 2005, 05:08

Of course, Cotto shouldn’t have theoretically struggled with Torres, but the fact is he showed the ability to weather some pretty heavy storms and come back to win.. Torres could bang and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him cause a few of the other fringe to top tier fighters a few problems in that division (including Witter!). Cotto is going to be hard to actually beat. His heart and desire certainly cannot be questioned. Admittedly, looking at the overall performance, this could be seen as a bad night at the office for Cotto, but, in my mind, it doesn’t mean he’s any less of a fighter than he was before.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Sep 2005, 05:17

J wrote:yes i would all but Maussa.

So in actual fact judging by the comments above you agree, hje hadnt fought at that level before, he did take it on short notice and cotto did struggle with him. In fact if the guy was more seasoned he would have knocked cotto out cold in the 2nd and 5th, he just was too eager to get him out of there and should have picked his punches (specifically the 5th when he was tiring and just wailing away).

So that makes a good performance then for cotto, oh i see

if you are seriously suggesting Torres would give either mayweather or Hatton terrific problems then .......well good luck.

Hear Hear!

Hatton was branded as chinny for years on the basis of getting caught early on by Magee, who is a good puncher and a big light welterweight. What happened, he went on to take bombs from Tszyu with little or no effect.

Cotto has been hurt by a light hitting Corley and had a life or death struggle with Torres. He's shown he has guts, determination and the ability to turn it around, but I'm beginning to think he's an accident waiting to happen at LW.

I think he has the style to make an excellent fight with Hatton, but if it went past the first 6 you would have to like Hatton's stamina to take over.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 28 Sep 2005, 05:27

I think Hatton beats Cotto at 140, Cotto really has no business staying at the weight if two of his last three fights are anything to go by. They are putting him in serious danger with all this weight cutting. He should be at 147 without a doubt, he is a light middleweight by fight time.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Sep 2005, 05:30

So is Hatton. Ricky said in interview he weights around 152-154 on fight night. Difference is, Hatton always looks comfortable and has plenty of stamina.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 28 Sep 2005, 05:31

Exactly, does Cotto have a nutritionist on board? Hatton does and it helps him no end he says he couldn't have remained at 140 without one.

Cotto is going to get badly beaten one of these days if he stays at 140. I think he'd be rejuvenated at welter perhaps.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 28 Sep 2005, 05:44

I guess you could say I`m a fan of Cotto.
But I wouldn`t say I`m being unbiased.

Sure I`d agree that Hatton still gets remembered about the Magee fight.
Once again I`d remember people that boxers are human, and Hatton did win the fight.
And would have Magee have been better than Torres??

I`d agree he could have done things better but what he showed during the crisis and to still get the job done rates for me as an excellent showing.

And please....Magee a big hitter....DeMarcus Corley a light-hitter....their records have similar KO ratio`s...only Corley has been in better company...a case there of an unbiased view?...or just ill informed?.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 28 Sep 2005, 05:44

Like many questioned Hatton's chin based on the Magee fight, the same is happening with Cotto. I doubt Hatton could hurt Cotto for instance.

Cotto has been in with some big punchers: Bailey, Pinto..Maussa even - they're not shy about matching him tough. Hatton has only been matched ONCE where he wasn't a big favorite.

And the guys who have hurt Cotto are excellent punchers: Corley hurt Mayweather too didn't he? Plus I watched him blast out a guy in the opening round to win the title. He's a hard hitter when he sets himself, just he's very cautious - a typical southpaw.

And Sosa is a very good hitter as well - Floyd didn't want to get too involved when they met...

And Torres? Not the type of fighter you'd want your man to be meeting, that's for sure.

J · Post by J » 28 Sep 2005, 05:51

so cotto wasnt favourite agianst bailey torres etc then.

and to state he couldnt hurt cotto who hurt by corley is a bit daft after Hatton hurt zxoo enough to make him quit on stool sure it may not be one punch power but culmulatively he can hurt anyone.

all im asking for is consistentcy in apprasial here and to state that cotto came out of saturdays nights fight with more credit than questions is in my opinion complete crap.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 28 Sep 2005, 05:59

Yes he was, but even you have to admit his over all level of competition has been way above Hatton's - You can bring up Tszyu, but don't forget the 40 or so gimmes before that.

I'm pretty neutral when it comes to Cotto - I like em both - but even Hatton knows, this is the most dangerous guy in the division ( Ok, Floyd is waaay beyond dangerous

)

Maybe because I used to write off the chances of another Puerto Rican called Trindad who hit the canvas a few times, I'm not writing off Cotto too quickly.

He's just come through the type of fight than can make or break a fighter - he'll no doubt be an even better fighter for it.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 28 Sep 2005, 06:04

MightyWarrior wrote:another Puerto Rican called Trindad who hit the canvas a few times, I'm not writing off Cotto too quickly..

J · Post by J » 28 Sep 2005, 06:08

ok here you go

Cotto oppoenents since 2004:

Sosa (lightweight)
Ndou (top ten gate keeper)
Pinto (green unbeaten banger)
Bailey (old)
Corely (seen better days but probaly cottos best win and he struggled at times)
Abdulleiv (dissapointing)
torres (not top 15, struggled and could well have lost)

Hatton
(ill include tackie as he was nearly 2004)
Tackie (similar level to ndou)
Pederson (lightweight and stepping in to replace pinto)
Stewart (limited)
Oliveria (Old like bailey)
Tzsyu by far the most impressive name on either cv.

so are you sure Cotto has fought a better class of opoonent really, look pretty similarr all things being equal to me.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 28 Sep 2005, 06:09

J wrote: and to state he couldnt hurt cotto who hurt by corley is a bit daft after Hatton hurt zxoo enough to make him quit on stool sure it may not be one punch power but culmulatively he can hurt anyone.

Not really - notice the times Cotto has been hurt have been huge single left or right hands shots clattering his chin or temple - not Ricky's strong point.
Culmulatively if he lands enough of course he'd hurt Cotto - but there's the small matter of some serious fire power coming back his way, from a young dangerous fighter near his prime.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Sep 2005, 06:11

MightyWarrior wrote:Like many questioned Hatton's chin based on the Magee fight, the same is happening with Cotto. I doubt Hatton could hurt Cotto for instance.

Cotto has been in with some big punchers: Bailey, Pinto..Maussa even - they're not shy about matching him tough. Hatton has only been matched ONCE where he wasn't a big favorite.

And the guys who have hurt Cotto are excellent punchers: Corley hurt Mayweather too didn't he? Plus I watched him blast out a guy in the opening round to win the title. He's a hard hitter when he sets himself, just he's very cautious - a typical southpaw.

And Sosa is a very good hitter as well - Floyd didn't want to get too involved when they met...

And Torres? Not the type of fighter you'd want your man to be meeting, that's for sure.

I'm not saying Corley cannot hit, but he's hardly known for being a one punch KO artist, and he almost dismantled Cotto with one shot. I think Cotto has a good chin and good powers of recovery, but his punch resistance is probably being hampered by being so weight drained.

Torres could well turn out to be another Barrios, tough south American with few well known names on his record who almost rips up for form book. Barrios was seconds away from dethroning Freitas, and now is a champ himself.

Interestingly, just reading Doug's column at maxboxing, and he favours Hatton to beat Cotto and Mayweather.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 28 Sep 2005, 06:14

J wrote:ok here you go

Cotto oppoenents since 2004:

Sosa (lightweight)
Ndou (top ten gate keeper)
Pinto (green unbeaten banger)
Bailey (old)
Corely (seen better days but probaly cottos best win and he struggled at times)
Abdulleiv (dissapointing)
torres (not top 15, struggled and could well have lost)

Hatton
(ill include tackie as he was nearly 2004)
Tackie (similar level to ndou)
Pederson (lightweight and stepping in to replace pinto)
Stewart (limited)
Oliveria (Old like bailey)
Tzsyu by far the most impressive name on either cv.

so are you sure Cotto has fought a better class of opoonent really, look pretty similarr all things being equal to me.

I think if you check the one-lost ratio of this lot, plus the KO%, you'll notice a big difference. Chuck Maussa in there too.

J · Post by J » 28 Sep 2005, 06:31

its pretty similar as it goes since late 2003 (tackie / maussa)
183 won lost 12 cotto opponents = 93%

223 won 22 lost hatton. = 90 %

cant be arsed to take into account draws and nc and certianly cant be arsed to go into each fighters record to work out the ko %.

as i said all things being equal and the big name of Zoo ion your record similar level in my mind. And i chucked maussa in there who was 16-0 at the time of meeting cotto.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 28 Sep 2005, 06:50

J wrote:its pretty similar as it goes since late 2003 (tackie / maussa)
183 won lost 12 cotto opponents = 93%

223 won 22 lost hatton. = 90 %

cant be arsed to take into account draws and nc and certianly cant be arsed to go into each fighters record to work out the ko %.

as i said all things being equal and the big name of Zoo ion your record similar level in my mind. And i chucked maussa in there who was 16-0 at the time of meeting cotto.

Bang goes my theory then

Still, I reckon the KO% is the big difference here...until I'm told otherwise that is!

J · Post by J » 28 Sep 2005, 06:51

SORRY MATE

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 28 Sep 2005, 10:29

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Cotto would chin Witter.

Anyone who believes otherwise is a mug..

what do you base that assumption on?

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 29 Sep 2005, 06:43

I re-watched Witter against the best win on his record..Lovemore N`Dou.
It was on Channel 5 last night.

Witter would never ever beat Cotto..nor Ricky Hatton

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 29 Sep 2005, 06:59

tonyevs wrote:I re-watched Witter against the best win on his record..Lovemore N`Dou.
It was on Channel 5 last night.

Witter would never ever beat Cotto..nor Ricky Hatton

Never? He has a punchers chance with either particularly Cotto. That uppercut that scored the first knockdown would probably have clean KO'd Cotto if last weekend was anything to go by.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Sep 2005, 16:02

At world class Witter goes pretty fornicating quiet after 4 rounds. N'dou is tough but limited; Kotelnik is tricky but feather-fisted. Kotelnik's jabs were discouraging Witter late in that fight. Sure he could always catch Cotto with a hard shot, but Miguel has shown he can cope with it and rally back. How would Witter fare when those clusters of hooks started to batter him? History shows when an opponent fights back Witter doesn't like it. I've always been sick of Witter's talk, that bragging and name dropping. Getting sick of watching him fight also.

oscar · Post by **oscar** » 29 Sep 2005, 16:32

viciousmaussa wrote:At world class Witter goes pretty fornicating quiet after 4 rounds. N'dou is tough but limited; Kotelnik is tricky but feather-fisted. Kotelnik's jabs were discouraging Witter late in that fight. Sure he could always catch Cotto with a hard shot, but Miguel has shown he can cope with it and rally back. How would Witter fare when those clusters of hooks started to batter him? History shows when an opponent fights back Witter doesn't like it. I've always been sick of Witter's talk, that bragging and name dropping. Getting sick of watching him fight also.

quite right. meybe lynes can shut him up on the 21st