BoxRec

silkov wroter

And in all honesty I personally think Holmes was in a different league as champion to Rocky... and also most of the other Heavyweight champs, save for Ali, Johnson and Louis...

i totally disagree with that. holmes was great, rocky was great. both all time greats. and if they fought, it would have been a great matchup and it would be close, but i lean towards the rock based on styles. he had the style to beat holmes. and dont tell me it wont be a close fight, i watched weaver, snipes, and shavers and more all hurt him and nearly knock him out. if they could get to him, no doubt would marciano.



- holmes did defend a lot and i give him credit, but he had a lot of unessecary fighters he defended against.
quality is better than quality. marciano made 6 defenses, 3 against hall of famers. holmes did fight some tough fighters but the only HOF he fought was norton who nearly beat im in a spectacular fight. he also fought spinks who did beat him.

i dont care who u think wins the fantasy matchup, but its direspectful to say holmes is in a different class than rocky because hes not. IMO both holmes and rocky are in a class with all the heavyweight greats.


both holmes and rocky are top 5 IMO[/quote]

both holmes and rocky are top 5 IMO

agreed

I have 1. Ali, 2. Jack Johnson, 3. Holmes and 4. Louis...... I think 5 would be Liston....

really... no room for rocky above liston? surprising.

Rory McCloskey wrote:really... no room for rocky above liston? surprising.

I don't see Marciano beating Liston. Listons jab would dismantle Rocky...

well... even if thats true, rocky i would think is more accomplished and had a better career.

Rory McCloskey wrote:well... even if thats true, rocky i would think is more accomplished and had a better career.

I agree that Rocky was the better champion than Liston but I think Liston on his best night would have beaten Marciano. Rockys style was made for Liston really...

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:silkov wroter

And in all honesty I personally think Holmes was in a different league as champion to Rocky... and also most of the other Heavyweight champs, save for Ali, Johnson and Louis...

i totally disagree with that. holmes was great, rocky was great. both all time greats. and if they fought, it would have been a great matchup and it would be close, but i lean towards the rock based on styles. he had the style to beat holmes. and dont tell me it wont be a close fight, i watched weaver, snipes, and shavers and more all hurt him and nearly knock him out. if they could get to him, no doubt would marciano.



- holmes did defend a lot and i give him credit, but he had a lot of unessecary fighters he defended against.
quality is better than quality. marciano made 6 defenses, 3 against hall of famers. holmes did fight some tough fighters but the only HOF he fought was norton who nearly beat im in a spectacular fight. he also fought spinks who did beat him.

i dont care who u think wins the fantasy matchup, but its direspectful to say holmes is in a different class than rocky because hes not. IMO both holmes and rocky are in a class with all the heavyweight greats.


both holmes and rocky are top 5 IMO

[/quote]

When I say that I'm not disrespecting Marciano, but I see Ali, Johnson, Holmes and Louis as a group a step up from Marciano and the other champions... that doesn't mean that I don't see Marciano and Dempsey etc as 'great champions' too...

I really can't understand how anyone could have Holmes in their top 5, much less their top 10, in heavies of all time. Simply astounding.

wlvrne wrote:I really can't understand how anyone could have Holmes in their top 5, much less their top 10, in heavies of all time. Simply astounding.

Its your lack of knowledge thats astounding mate. Go back to watching your John Ruiz collection....

silkov wrote:

Rory McCloskey wrote:well... even if thats true, rocky i would think is more accomplished and had a better career.

I agree that Rocky was the better champion than Liston but I think Liston on his best night would have beaten Marciano. Rockys style was made for Liston really...

but shouldnt the acheivements and the careers of these boxers place them on this list?... im sure there are guys outside fo the top5 that could have beaten a top 5 fighter... but the accomplishements should weight heavier then wether or not they would have won a mythical matchup no?

Rory McCloskey wrote:

silkov wrote:

Rory McCloskey wrote:well... even if thats true, rocky i would think is more accomplished and had a better career.

I agree that Rocky was the better champion than Liston but I think Liston on his best night would have beaten Marciano. Rockys style was made for Liston really...

but shouldnt the acheivements and the careers of these boxers place them on this list?... im sure there are guys outside fo the top5 that could have beaten a top 5 fighter... but the accomplishements should weight heavier then wether or not they would have won a mythical matchup no?

Well if we are asking who is the best boxer then the rating goes on ability rather than just what they did as champions. I say Marciano was a better champion because he made more defences than Liston and Listons reign will forever be overshadowed by his defeats against Ali. But having said that looking at Liston and Marciano as fighters and on ability I 'm pretty sure Liston would have beaten Marcinao. Liston had trouble with movers but Rocky would have come right at him. The biggest difference between Marciano and Liston is that Sonny was much better technically, he had one of the hardest best jabs of any champ and this would Break Marciano up.

silkov wrote:

wlvrne wrote:I really can't understand how anyone could have Holmes in their top 5, much less their top 10, in heavies of all time. Simply astounding.

Its your lack of knowledge thats astounding mate. Go back to watching your John Ruiz collection....

Actually, I thought Ruiz was your current favorite. Holmes could have been better than he was. He chose to "dominate" a new belt association and not take any chances.

wlvrne wrote:I really can't understand how anyone could have Holmes in their top 5, much less their top 10, in heavies of all time. Simply astounding.

No offesne but are you new to boxing? Holmes is top 3 material like it or not. He showed true heart from getting up from Shavers in their rematch and went on to stopping him in the 11th. Who else would of gotten up from that punch? Holmes has no weaknesses, none what so ever, great chin, great handspeed, great jab, great endurance, had 1 punch power in either hand (remember the jab that dropped Ocasio?). Holmes was technically the perfect heavyweight.

Holmes has done everything asked of him beating Shavers, Norton, Cooney, Bonecrusher, Weaver, Witherspoon and Ocasio as his best wins. He even outboxed Mercer at 42 - The same Mercer that in my opinion outpointed Lennox Lewis.

wlvrne wrote:

silkov wrote:

wlvrne wrote:I really can't understand how anyone could have Holmes in their top 5, much less their top 10, in heavies of all time. Simply astounding.

Its your lack of knowledge thats astounding mate. Go back to watching your John Ruiz collection....

Actually, I thought Ruiz was your current favorite. Holmes could have been better than he was. He chose to "dominate" a new belt association and not take any chances.

Your lack of boxing knowledge and irrational dislike of Holmes seems to know no bounds!....

I agree that both holmes and rocky are all time great heavyweights.

- i respect ur opinion that u think liston would beat rocky. it would be a tough match for both fighters, but i actually thought about this and made a analysis on the match and i had rocky knocking him out late.

Tantum wrote:I also have Holmes at #2. Louis at #1.

Me too.

wlvrne wrote:I really can't understand how anyone could have Holmes in their top 5, much less their top 10, in heavies of all time. Simply astounding.

:lol: lol: : :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: RETARD

Grimm wrote:

wlvrne wrote:I really can't understand how anyone could have Holmes in their top 5, much less their top 10, in heavies of all time. Simply astounding.

:lol: lol: : :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: RETARD

Gold is such a nice bright cheery color, sort of the color of my favorite beverage you've done wonders with this thread.

Oh and Holmes is top 10 if ever there was one. To see him in the top five never gets me questioning. Some have made a defendable case for top 3. He turned in quite a performance in a very tough era. And has shown remarkable durability and seemed to have kept his wits about him into his senior years.

Take some time with this and go into DEEP THOUGHT mode. You'll move him up on your list straightaway. Maybe a 12 ounce noodle activator would help. I suggest a Corona for starters.

BoxBuzz wrote:Gold is such a nice bright cheery color, sort of the color of my favorite beverage you've done wonders with this thread.

Oh and Holmes is top 10 if ever there was one. To see him in the top five never gets me questioning. Some have made a defendable case for top 3. He turned in quite a performance in a very tough era. And has shown remarkable durability and seemed to have kept his wits about him into his senior years.

Take some time with this and go into DEEP THOUGHT mode. You'll move him up on your list straightaway. Maybe a 12 ounce noodle activator would help. I suggest a Corona for starters.

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Holmes had possibly the greatest jab in HW boxing ever. Not quite as fast as Ali's and not quite as powerful as Liston's but IMO a sort of hybrid of the two.

He also had a sound enough defence and decent power. Holmes could change the angles to suit himself and was rarely not in control of a fight. What makes him stand out for me was his fighting heart, chin, durability and endurance. In any tightly fought battle Holmes could take whatever was coming and return it.

Holmes has one of the best reigns of any champion. I think he's top 5 all time. He was a bit of a head hunter and didn't work the body as much as he might but still a very very hard fighter to beat.

I think Holmes-Liston would be a fantastic fight. I'm not sure that I could pick a winner.

Ezzard wrote:Holmes had possibly the greatest jab in HW boxing ever. Not quite as fast as Ali's and not quite as powerful as Liston's but IMO a sort of hybrid of the two.

He also had a sound enough defence and decent power. Holmes could change the angles to suit himself and was rarely not in control of a fight. What makes him stand out for me was his fighting heart, chin, durability and endurance. In any tightly fought battle Holmes could take whatever was coming and return it.

Holmes has one of the best reigns of any champion. I think he's top 5 all time. He was a bit of a head hunter and didn't work the body as much as he might but still a very very hard fighter to beat.

I think Holmes-Liston would be a fantastic fight. I'm not sure that I could pick a winner.

Holmes is definately top 5... I'd put him at about 3 but no way should he be out of the top 5.
Holmes vs Liston would be a excellent fight... I think Larry would win because of his speed and mobility

silkov wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Holmes had possibly the greatest jab in HW boxing ever. Not quite as fast as Ali's and not quite as powerful as Liston's but IMO a sort of hybrid of the two.

He also had a sound enough defence and decent power. Holmes could change the angles to suit himself and was rarely not in control of a fight. What makes him stand out for me was his fighting heart, chin, durability and endurance. In any tightly fought battle Holmes could take whatever was coming and return it.

Holmes has one of the best reigns of any champion. I think he's top 5 all time. He was a bit of a head hunter and didn't work the body as much as he might but still a very very hard fighter to beat.

I think Holmes-Liston would be a fantastic fight. I'm not sure that I could pick a winner.

Holmes is definately top 5... I'd put him at about 3 but no way should he be out of the top 5.
Holmes vs Liston would be a excellent fight... I think Larry would win because of his speed and mobility

Holmes and Liston had trouble when the other guy could go some way to matching their jabs. This is what would happen here. Liston is the harder puncher, Holmes a little quicker and more versatile which might just swing it.

i respect ur opinion that u think liston would beat rocky. it would be a tough match for both fighters, but i actually thought about this and made a analysis on the match and i had rocky knocking him out late.

Both Liston and Holmes would have battered Marciano, dropped him multple times and beaten him on cuts around the 8th or 9th rounds. Marciano had nothing on either of them. They were bigger, better fighters with outstanding jabs and great movement. Charles, Moore, and Walcott would not have given them nowhere near the trouble they gave Marciano. Its unpopular to hold such an opinion especially with the romanticism that the Rock is drapped in, but I cant see it going any other way.