BoxRec

I don't usually get into these What would have happened things, butHave to say that i think Bruno would beat Wlad, Byrd and Ruiz, but would probaly get stopped by Brewster and Vitali.

topper123 wrote:I don't usually get into these What would have happened things, butHave to say that i think Bruno would beat Wlad, Byrd and Ruiz, but would probaly get stopped by Brewster and Vitali.

Bruno was around at the wrong time - today he could beat pretty much anyone and that includes Vitali - I think Bruno would have given Vitali problems aplenty

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

topper123 wrote:I don't usually get into these What would have happened things, butHave to say that i think Bruno would beat Wlad, Byrd and Ruiz, but would probaly get stopped by Brewster and Vitali.

Bruno was around at the wrong time - today he could beat pretty much anyone and that includes Vitali - I think Bruno would have given Vitali problems aplenty

Yep although i think that Brewster and Wlad would have won against Bruno, i have no doubt that he would have given them all the trouble they could handle, i just see them outlasting big Frank, kind of like the Lennox Lewis fight

I think Bruno was a good fighter.I can't stand the way some part time boxing fans think he was shit, guaranteed these people have only seen the 2 Tyson fights. Some good knockout clips on the documentary and Bruno came off very well i thought. Bigger shock to me was Warren. He came across as a nice fella and i think my perception of him has changed alot. Probably until Calzaghe's next 'major' fight.

Was the guy who owns the Health Farm where Bruno is staying the same person that used to be mates with George Best, i know Best stayed for free long term at a health farm

topper123 wrote:I did like Benns contribution last night, at least he was honest to say he felt Intimidated at the 2nd Tyson fight.

Me to, I always like Benn as a fighter and out of the ring he always struck me as a straight talking, honest sort of guy.

As for the documentary itself I thought it was very well made, even more so when you consider these days ITV has seemed to have turned into Channel Chav.

A minor critisism was that I thought they concentrated just a little too much on his Boxing loses but apart from that it was a good program. Even Mr Warren came across well I thought, and seemed to honestly like Big Frank.

Like others have said it brought back a lot of good memories such as listening to the Witherspoon fight on the radio. Staying up in the early hours to watch the Tyson fight on TV. Watching the Lewis fight at my parents house with my mate and his then new girlfriend (now his wife) and drinking too much Vodka. Watching The McCall fight at a small party very, very drunk with friends........

I also remember a time when UK Heavyweights Bruno, (young) Lewis and Mason used to get a right slagging off from some people. But now we have have Harrison, Williams and Skelton, draw your own comparisons.

I still say Brunos biggest weakness was nerves and the stress of carrying the nations hopes on those wide shoulders. This of course would have not helped his stamina or being 'more fluid'. When he won the title it was a strange fight as McCall seemed only half interested, but that guy has so many deamons and issues it would be pointless to try and second guess what was going through his mind that night.

I really hope Big Frank manages to find peace and contentment in his life as at the end of the day he seems a good guy and has brought many fight fans some great nights of entertainment.

If he was around today? Well he would certainly be a a MAJOR threat to any of the current title holders thats for sure.

P.S.

Was also great to see Harry Carpenter on TV again.

"Get in there Frank!"

KOJOE90 wrote:P.S.

Was also great to see Harry Carpenter on TV again.

"Get in there Frank!"

Yeah was nice to see him , looks well doesn't he.

I always love hearing that bit of commentry as well.

Would have been interesting if the 2 Frank's had gone to the Priory together, they might have never let Warren out. ;) :)

Seems like Frank's fistic accomplishments are getting better by the year on here. By 2010 you blokes will have him up there with Ali and Louis. Where you will rank Bonecrusher by then, God only knows. And Tyson, who twice destroyed Bruno, well, he'd have to be off the scale.

I don't want to sound to disrespectful, he's been through a hard time of late.

BUT, I never thought much of him as a boxer, and I still don't.

Would he have been more successful in this era? Probably, but I'm not utterly convinced we would have beaten Ruiz/Byrd/Vitali or Brewester.

I learned a few things about the documentary about Bruno. That "Bruno's chin is too good" theory that Benn often mentions, sorry don't buy it any more. I've never seen the Bonecrusher KO, but that what exactly it was a KO. He didn't get stopped on his feet, he got a little hurt and then one clean shot KO'd him. He was lucky not to get stopped vs Jumbo Cummings.

He beat Oliver McCall and all credit for the win, but Oliver McCall wasn't a great boxer - apart from Lewis everytime he stepped up prior to his championship reign he lost. Plus, McCall was a crackhead who clearly wasn't mentally right in the Bruno fight - cannot take that away from Frank he got his title.

Had Bruno had the option of unifying the titles when he won it - vs Seldon, and Botha - we would have done so. Akinwande vs Bruno would have been interesting, because I think Akinwande would have been too good but his own stamina and chin was suspect.

However, as bad as this generation is - I honestly think the CHAMPIONS in this era compares favourably to those mentioned above. I think Ruiz has enough heart and stamina to gutted out a late stoppage. Byrd vs Bruno could be interesting, as Byrd has NO punch. It would probably be the best chance for Frank. Brewester would gutted out a mid/late stoppage and I think Vitali would do a more clinical job than Lennox did (who was inexperienced and with the awful Pepe Correra).

Bruno anhilates some of the contenders like McCline, Golota, Peter and even Wlad.

However, I just still think if a fighter has a good chin, good stamina and a good mindset then they eventually beat Bruno. The 4 champions all have those traits.

stujones wrote:That "Bruno's chin is too good" theory that Benn often mentions, sorry don't buy it any more.

Stu, when did Benn say this?

stujones wrote:I don't want to sound to disrespectful, he's been through a hard time of late.

BUT, I never thought much of him as a boxer, and I still don't.

Would he have been more successful in this era? Probably, but I'm not utterly convinced we would have beaten Ruiz/Byrd/Vitali or Brewester.

I learned a few things about the documentary about Bruno. That "Bruno's chin is too good" theory that Benn often mentions, sorry don't buy it any more. I've never seen the Bonecrusher KO, but that what exactly it was a KO. He didn't get stopped on his feet, he got a little hurt and then one clean shot KO'd him. He was lucky not to get stopped vs Jumbo Cummings.

He beat Oliver McCall and all credit for the win, but Oliver McCall wasn't a great boxer - apart from Lewis everytime he stepped up prior to his championship reign he lost. Plus, McCall was a crackhead who clearly wasn't mentally right in the Bruno fight - cannot take that away from Frank he got his title.

Had Bruno had the option of unifying the titles when he won it - vs Seldon, and Botha - we would have done so. Akinwande vs Bruno would have been interesting, because I think Akinwande would have been too good but his own stamina and chin was suspect.

However, as bad as this generation is - I honestly think the CHAMPIONS in this era compares favourably to those mentioned above. I think Ruiz has enough heart and stamina to gutted out a late stoppage. Byrd vs Bruno could be interesting, as Byrd has NO punch. It would probably be the best chance for Frank. Brewester would gutted out a mid/late stoppage and I think Vitali would do a more clinical job than Lennox did (who was inexperienced and with the awful Pepe Correra).

Bruno anhilates some of the contenders like McCline, Golota, Peter and even Wlad.

However, I just still think if a fighter has a good chin, good stamina and a good mindset then they eventually beat Bruno. The 4 champions all have those traits.

Did you see his jab? How many HWs in hostory have a better jab - not Lennox Lewis. His speed was decent, serious power just a defense and reaction to been hit that left soemthing to be desired. Could of been a great champ with the right defense and if he was more relaxed when hit.

How would Ruiz outbox Bruno - Ruiz relies on his jab and grab and he'd get outjabbed and ko'd. Byrd wouldn't be able to stop Bruno late if he survives early because hes the lightest hitting HW belt holder ever.

Bruno is pure class, a past HW Champ and genuine kind fella.

I'd also concur with the posters who gave props to Mr Warren for his concern for Bruno. For all a mans faults its nice to see a human caring side.

Collins2000 wrote:Seems like Frank's fistic accomplishments are getting better by the year on here. By 2010 you blokes will have him up there with Ali and Louis. Where you will rank Bonecrusher by then, God only knows. And Tyson, who twice destroyed Bruno, well, he'd have to be off the scale.

Tyson destroyed quite a few fighters not just Bruno and its worth remembering that Frank finished on his feet against Tyson... not unconcious. Also you should know that Bruno went into the second Tyson fight with a detached retina... so that makes his performance rather better than it may look at first glance.

KOJOE90 wrote:

stujones wrote:That "Bruno's chin is too good" theory that Benn often mentions, sorry don't buy it any more.

Stu, when did Benn say this?

He said it coutless times, especially in the build up to the McCall and Tyson fights.

stujones wrote:I don't want to sound to disrespectful, he's been through a hard time of late.

BUT, I never thought much of him as a boxer, and I still don't.

Would he have been more successful in this era? Probably, but I'm not utterly convinced we would have beaten Ruiz/Byrd/Vitali or Brewester.

I learned a few things about the documentary about Bruno. That "Bruno's chin is too good" theory that Benn often mentions, sorry don't buy it any more. I've never seen the Bonecrusher KO, but that what exactly it was a KO. He didn't get stopped on his feet, he got a little hurt and then one clean shot KO'd him. He was lucky not to get stopped vs Jumbo Cummings.

He beat Oliver McCall and all credit for the win, but Oliver McCall wasn't a great boxer - apart from Lewis everytime he stepped up prior to his championship reign he lost. Plus, McCall was a crackhead who clearly wasn't mentally right in the Bruno fight - cannot take that away from Frank he got his title.

Had Bruno had the option of unifying the titles when he won it - vs Seldon, and Botha - we would have done so. Akinwande vs Bruno would have been interesting, because I think Akinwande would have been too good but his own stamina and chin was suspect.

However, as bad as this generation is - I honestly think the CHAMPIONS in this era compares favourably to those mentioned above. I think Ruiz has enough heart and stamina to gutted out a late stoppage. Byrd vs Bruno could be interesting, as Byrd has NO punch. It would probably be the best chance for Frank. Brewester would gutted out a mid/late stoppage and I think Vitali would do a more clinical job than Lennox did (who was inexperienced and with the awful Pepe Correra).

Bruno anhilates some of the contenders like McCline, Golota, Peter and even Wlad.

However, I just still think if a fighter has a good chin, good stamina and a good mindset then they eventually beat Bruno. The 4 champions all have those traits.

I think that punch by Bonecrusher would have floored many fighters with a reputation for a good chin tbh

stujones wrote:

KOJOE90 wrote:

stujones wrote:That "Bruno's chin is too good" theory that Benn often mentions, sorry don't buy it any more.

Stu, when did Benn say this?

He said it coutless times, especially in the build up to the McCall and Tyson fights.

Ok. I honestly can't recall him saying it but hey thats life.....

Neri1983 wrote:

stujones wrote:I don't want to sound to disrespectful, he's been through a hard time of late.

BUT, I never thought much of him as a boxer, and I still don't.

Would he have been more successful in this era? Probably, but I'm not utterly convinced we would have beaten Ruiz/Byrd/Vitali or Brewester.

I learned a few things about the documentary about Bruno. That "Bruno's chin is too good" theory that Benn often mentions, sorry don't buy it any more. I've never seen the Bonecrusher KO, but that what exactly it was a KO. He didn't get stopped on his feet, he got a little hurt and then one clean shot KO'd him. He was lucky not to get stopped vs Jumbo Cummings.

He beat Oliver McCall and all credit for the win, but Oliver McCall wasn't a great boxer - apart from Lewis everytime he stepped up prior to his championship reign he lost. Plus, McCall was a crackhead who clearly wasn't mentally right in the Bruno fight - cannot take that away from Frank he got his title.

Had Bruno had the option of unifying the titles when he won it - vs Seldon, and Botha - we would have done so. Akinwande vs Bruno would have been interesting, because I think Akinwande would have been too good but his own stamina and chin was suspect.

However, as bad as this generation is - I honestly think the CHAMPIONS in this era compares favourably to those mentioned above. I think Ruiz has enough heart and stamina to gutted out a late stoppage. Byrd vs Bruno could be interesting, as Byrd has NO punch. It would probably be the best chance for Frank. Brewester would gutted out a mid/late stoppage and I think Vitali would do a more clinical job than Lennox did (who was inexperienced and with the awful Pepe Correra).

Bruno anhilates some of the contenders like McCline, Golota, Peter and even Wlad.

However, I just still think if a fighter has a good chin, good stamina and a good mindset then they eventually beat Bruno. The 4 champions all have those traits.

I think that punch by Bonecrusher would have floored many fighters with a reputation for a good chin tbh

Bruno didn't have a glass chin, his problem was that he's panick when hurt and just 'freeze'. For instance if he'd gone down for a count against Bonecrusher instead of just talking more punches, he may well have recovered. Having said that its no shame being stopped by Smith who was a dynamite puncher. In fact all the fighters Bruno lost too were very good punchers.
I actually think Bruno had a better chin than Lennox Lewis.

Bruno Jab - Yes, I remember it well. His best weapon no doubt? Better than Lewis'? No. It was better than Lennox's Jab in 1993, before he went to Manny. Thats because Pepe Correra is arguably the worst trainer of world champions I can remember. Lewis hardly ever jabbed when with him.

Credit to Stewart, he made Lewis a MUCH better fighter.

I think the Lewis who beat up Morrison, Tyson, Tua, and Rahman in the rematch would have beaten Bruno convingingly.

As for today's opponents, I'd give you Byrd that would have been Bruno's best route due to having a non-existant punch. However, when Bruno faded I'm not convinced he would have got threw. McCall did nothing for 7-8 rounds but still Bruno was dead tired at the end, Byrd certainly wouldn't give Bruno easy rounds. It would be Bruno's best chance.

I do think John Ruiz is one of the more underated fighters in Heavyweight history. Rahman had a better jab and better power than Ruiz on paper (Bruno's advantages) yet, Ruiz found a way to beat him (and surprisingly quicker than Rahman). Johnson was supposed to be a superior boxer and people were expecting to see a lower level Tua vs Lewis hiding, wrong again. Ruiz got past the Johnson jab to win convincingly. Golota was supposed to be better technically, stronger physically, and with the bigger punch - yet Ruiz outstrength's Golota to win a tight decision. Ruiz' has also got underarted power - Holyfield was out on his feet vs Ruiz in match II yet survived bombs from Rahman AFTER that fight.

Ruiz seems to struggle more with smaller, faster men - it will be interesting to see how he copes with Valuev.

As for Brewster - he looks to have loads of heart, good stamina and excellent power. I think these aspects were key to beat Bruno. I would expect a similar come from behind victory as he managed vs Wladimir.

Vitali - would be too clinical, too powerful for Bruno.

silkov wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:Seems like Frank's fistic accomplishments are getting better by the year on here. By 2010 you blokes will have him up there with Ali and Louis. Where you will rank Bonecrusher by then, God only knows. And Tyson, who twice destroyed Bruno, well, he'd have to be off the scale.

Tyson destroyed quite a few fighters not just Bruno and its worth remembering that Frank finished on his feet against Tyson... not unconcious. Also you should know that Bruno went into the second Tyson fight with a detached retina... so that makes his performance rather better than it may look at first glance.

On his feet or not, he was f*cking hammered.

Keep the excuses coming, Silkov. I'm sure you will convince us soon that Bruno is up there with the all time greats.

Collins2000 wrote:

silkov wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:Seems like Frank's fistic accomplishments are getting better by the year on here. By 2010 you blokes will have him up there with Ali and Louis. Where you will rank Bonecrusher by then, God only knows. And Tyson, who twice destroyed Bruno, well, he'd have to be off the scale.

Tyson destroyed quite a few fighters not just Bruno and its worth remembering that Frank finished on his feet against Tyson... not unconcious. Also you should know that Bruno went into the second Tyson fight with a detached retina... so that makes his performance rather better than it may look at first glance.

On his feet or not, he was f*cking hammered.

Keep the excuses coming, Silkov. I'm sure you will convince us soon that Bruno is up there with the all time greats.

Not excuses, but facts mate!... Bruno did much better against Tyson than many of Tysons other opponents. Try watching the fights........

Here is a few questions.

1) Do you think it was Bruno's eye injury that resulted in him being so intimidated in fight 2 vs Tyson? One thing I cannot understand is how Bruno was so intimitated second time round. He had gotton more experienced, and Tyson looked rusty as anything vs Mathis Jnr. He did well in the first fight and looked to have an even better chance in match 2? Why did he get so intimitated?

I think the people who argue that Bruno is underated do tend to look at his arm crossing prior to the fight as some excuse... Almost like, forget the Tyson rematch as he was intimitated. You really cannot think like that when it goes to comparing him with others.

2) Do you think that had Tyson had a better prep for fight 1 and was more active that the first fight would have resembled the rematch more? As there is such a difference in the rematch, yet Tyson was definately not the fighter he was in 1996 and Bruno was (supposed to at least) be better in 1996. Do you think Tyson took Bruno lightly in match 1, and because he was hurt in the match, trained like the buggery for the rematch?

stujones wrote:Bruno Jab - Yes, I remember it well. His best weapon no doubt? Better than Lewis'? No. It was better than Lennox's Jab in 1993, before he went to Manny. Thats because Pepe Correra is arguably the worst trainer of world champions I can remember. Lewis hardly ever jabbed when with him.

Credit to Stewart, he made Lewis a MUCH better fighter.

I think the Lewis who beat up Morrison, Tyson, Tua, and Rahman in the rematch would have beaten Bruno convingingly.

As for today's opponents, I'd give you Byrd that would have been Bruno's best route due to having a non-existant punch. However, when Bruno faded I'm not convinced he would have got threw. McCall did nothing for 7-8 rounds but still Bruno was dead tired at the end, Byrd certainly wouldn't give Bruno easy rounds. It would be Bruno's best chance.

I do think John Ruiz is one of the more underated fighters in Heavyweight history. Rahman had a better jab and better power than Ruiz on paper (Bruno's advantages) yet, Ruiz found a way to beat him (and surprisingly quicker than Rahman). Johnson was supposed to be a superior boxer and people were expecting to see a lower level Tua vs Lewis hiding, wrong again. Ruiz got past the Johnson jab to win convincingly. Golota was supposed to be better technically, stronger physically, and with the bigger punch - yet Ruiz outstrength's Golota to win a tight decision. Ruiz' has also got underarted power - Holyfield was out on his feet vs Ruiz in match II yet survived bombs from Rahman AFTER that fight.

Ruiz seems to struggle more with smaller, faster men - it will be interesting to see how he copes with Valuev.

As for Brewster - he looks to have loads of heart, good stamina and excellent power. I think these aspects were key to beat Bruno. I would expect a similar come from behind victory as he managed vs Wladimir.

Vitali - would be too clinical, too powerful for Bruno.

Lennoxs jab wasn't particularly great - Brunos was better and more natural. Lennox had great uppercuts and straights but the only reason the jab worked was because of his reach not his ability to throw the punch.

Ruiz is very poor and the reason he beat Johnson was because of acting, many thought he lost to Golota, wasn't Rahman terribly overweight? We all know what happened againt Tua, Jones and Toney.

Vitali is very overated - he was protected for a long time and all his good wins came against old fat men. Would be an interesting fight because neither Bruno or Vitali were usually outboxed. I'll never foget seeing Vitali sprinting ungainly backwards after been tagged by Sanders - if anyone figures out all they need to do is follow up the first punch with combinations Vitali will be done because leaning back won't escape a forward onslaught of combinations.

You couldn't discount the chance of Bruno ko'ing Brewster although if it did go late Brewster would probably finnish him - although a UD is possible. Anyway I think I'll stop debating this as mythical matches are, well mythical.

I would have liked to have seen Bruno-Holyfield - I think he could have given Holy some serious problems.

stujones wrote:Here is a few questions.

1) Do you think it was Bruno's eye injury that resulted in him being so intimidated in fight 2 vs Tyson? One thing I cannot understand is how Bruno was so intimitated second time round. He had gotton more experienced, and Tyson looked rusty as anything vs Mathis Jnr. He did well in the first fight and looked to have an even better chance in match 2? Why did he get so intimitated?

I think the people who argue that Bruno is underated do tend to look at his arm crossing prior to the fight as some excuse... Almost like, forget the Tyson rematch as he was intimitated. You really cannot think like that when it goes to comparing him with others.

2) Do you think that had Tyson had a better prep for fight 1 and was more active that the first fight would have resembled the rematch more? As there is such a difference in the rematch, yet Tyson was definately not the fighter he was in 1996 and Bruno was (supposed to at least) be better in 1996. Do you think Tyson took Bruno lightly in match 1, and because he was hurt in the match, trained like the buggery for the rematch?

The thing is that Bruno knew he shouldn't have been fighting anyone in the 2nd Tyson fight because of his eye injury. He only just got past the prefight medical. Also, people go on about the arm crossing, but the fact is that when Bruno got in the ring he took a licking and didn't look for the canvas... it was a very brave performance.
I think Tyson was probably almost as good as ever at that point. Technically he'd stopped doing some of the things he'd done with Rooney but the power and strength was still there.
It was the first Holifield loss that really broke Tyson, he was never the same after that.

stujones wrote:Here is a few questions.

1) Do you think it was Bruno's eye injury that resulted in him being so intimidated in fight 2 vs Tyson? One thing I cannot understand is how Bruno was so intimitated second time round. He had gotton more experienced, and Tyson looked rusty as anything vs Mathis Jnr. He did well in the first fight and looked to have an even better chance in match 2? Why did he get so intimitated?

I think the people who argue that Bruno is underated do tend to look at his arm crossing prior to the fight as some excuse... Almost like, forget the Tyson rematch as he was intimitated. You really cannot think like that when it goes to comparing him with others.

2) Do you think that had Tyson had a better prep for fight 1 and was more active that the first fight would have resembled the rematch more? As there is such a difference in the rematch, yet Tyson was definately not the fighter he was in 1996 and Bruno was (supposed to at least) be better in 1996. Do you think Tyson took Bruno lightly in match 1, and because he was hurt in the match, trained like the buggery for the rematch?

I think Bruno fell for all the gangster image and the Tysons 'unbeatable' myth was around at that time (the Douglas loss was seen as a fluke) - add the to the fact Tyson had already beat him silly to add to the demons. The eye problem may have added too it all.

I remember Bruno saying if Tysons heavies tried pushing him around he'd knock them out - meaning they were probably intimidating him.

I think the only reason Tyson had an easier time was because Frank was intimidated, whereas in the first fight he was gunning for Tyson.