Joe Louis vs Larry Holmes

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Nov 2005, 22:38

Well you always go by the calander.

Better Jab? Larry had a great jab, but better than Louis? Snipes could drop him but Louis can't? Louis would be able to finish him IF he was lucky enought to drop him. This would be a very competitive fight.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 22:40

weighing in at over 210 in his prime (thanks Brockton

acually rory 199-207lb . 207lb is still almost as much as 210lb holmes.

box buzz wrote

Holmes was almost sent out by Renaldo Snipes.....Let me say it again....Renaldo Snipes. Now Snipes could not follow up because he got lucky and Renaldo couldnt find his ass with both hands. However Just like the Iron Chinned Ali it could happen, it just takes the right set of circumstances. Joe just might provide that right set of circumstances.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 22:40

closest thing holmes faced to louis was tyson, and though holmes didnt have his skils he had his same chin and tyson brutally knocked him out.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 22:41

closest thing holmes faced to louis was tyson, and though holmes didnt have his skils he had his same chin and tyson brutally knocked him out.

holmes was a sucker for right hands in his entire career, he was either knocked down, out, or wobbled in most of his title fights by right hands.

theone · Post by **theone** » 21 Nov 2005, 22:56

closest thing holmes faced to louis was tyson, and though holmes didnt have his skils he had his same chin and tyson brutally knocked him out.

First of all, Louis is nothing like Tyson. Tyson is stronger, faster had quicker hands and a MUCH better chin. Joe wouldnt get out the first round against him. Second, Holmes was past his prime. Third, It was a barrage of punches that put Holmes out, punches he just couldnt avoid anymore.

holmes was a sucker for right hands in his entire career, he was either knocked down, out, or wobbled in most of his title fights by right hands.

And Louis? Lets here you explain away the fact that he was dropped wobbbled and hurt by cruiserweights.

Better Jab? Larry had a great jab, but better than Louis? Snipes could drop him but Louis can't? Louis would be able to finish him IF he was lucky enought to drop him. This would be a very competitive fight.

Much better. Joe's jab was more like a range finder than anything else. Holmes jab would hurt. And who ever said Louis cant drop Holmes? He just might if have if they fought. But Holmes has a better chance of surving Louis's punches than the other way around. Also Snipes was more than capable of dropping Louis too. Joe was wobbled by a 174lb. fighter who wasnt even a big puncher in his own weight class.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 23:04

First of all, Louis is nothing like Tyson. Tyson is stronger, faster had quicker hands and a MUCH better chin. Joe wouldnt get out the first round against him. Second, Holmes was past his prime. Third, It was a barrage of punches that put Holmes out, punches he just couldnt avoid anymore.

tyson IMO was not a greater puncher than joe louis,

louis hands are just as fast, hits harder, just as good combinations, more accurate, etc

And Louis? Lets here you explain away the fact that he was dropped wobbbled and hurt by cruiserweights.

schmeling, walcott were both hard hitters and would destroy the cruiserweigts today.

louis was only floored by hard punchers

- b baer, walcott, schmeling, marciano were all in RINGS top 100 greatest punchers and galento had a wicked left hook!

louis would have knocked out tyson, he would have busted tysons face up with the jab then exploded with explosive combinations.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Nov 2005, 23:07

Holmes was almost sent out by Renaldo Snipes.....Let me say it again....Renaldo Snipes. Now Snipes could not follow up because he got lucky and Renaldo couldnt find his ass with both hands. However Just like the Iron Chinned Ali it could happen, it just takes the right set of circumstances. Joe just might provide that right set of circumstances.

theone · Post by **theone** » 21 Nov 2005, 23:18

schmeling, walcott were both hard hitters and would destroy the cruiserweigts today.

And they would have got destroyed by Holmes.

- b baer, walcott, schmeling, marciano were all in RINGS top 100 greatest punchers and galento had a wicked left hook!

The ring was judging them for thier time. Schmeling for example would not be considered a great heavyweight puncher during the 70"s, or even today for that matter.

louis would have knocked out tyson, he would have busted tysons face up with the jab then exploded with explosive combinations.

Only in your imagination. To even be competitive with prime Tyson you either had to be fleet of feet or sturdy of chin. Louis was neither. It would be a massacre.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Nov 2005, 23:30

Was Renaldo Denied the championship over a "long count"? Perhaps Larry was actually KO'd?

As far as former heavyweight contender Renaldo Snipes, who was born, raised and still lives in Yonkers, New York, is concerned, he was the heavyweight champion of the world for all of four seconds. Although he was an overwhelming underdog, he knocked WBC heavyweight champion Larry Holmes to the canvas with a perfectly timed right hand in Pittsburgh in November 1981.

Holmes, who never knew what hit him, laboriously rose to his feet and miraculously continued. He later stopped the vastly more inexperienced Snipes in the 11th round. To this day, however, Snipes, and others, insist that Holmes received the benefit of a long count and that Snipes should have been declared the new champion.

“It only takes 10 seconds to win a title, but it took Larry 14 seconds to keep it,” said Snipes. “I walked out of that ring with my head high and my pride intact. Maybe it was a blessing in disguise. Not winning the title might have kept me grounded. I’ve always surrounded myself with well-rounded people. Hopefully they wouldn’t have let the victory go to my head. But you never know.”

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 21 Nov 2005, 23:41

theone wrote:First of all, Louis is nothing like Tyson. Tyson is stronger, faster had quicker hands and a MUCH better chin. Joe wouldnt get out the first round against him. Second, Holmes was past his prime. Third, It was a barrage of punches that put Holmes out, punches he just couldnt avoid anymore.

I don't know about this. I think Tyson was a great puncher, but he didn't knock a lot of championship caliber guys out in round one that were not terrified of him. His best first round KOs were against weak competition or guys who were scared to death to get in the ring with him.

Although I think Louis had the ability to beat Tyson, I completely respect your opinion that Tyson wins. I just don't think Tyson could blow him out like you envision. In their primes, they were similar in weight, with an edge going to Tyson. Louis was the bigger man still. He might not have had a rock solid chin, but he always got up early in a fight when he was dropped. The only two ten-counts he suffered were late in grueling fights.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 22 Nov 2005, 12:12

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
RazorKO wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
gerrie coatzee KO 1 Joe louis

razor ruddock TKO 1 Joe Louis

i will never take razor KO seriosely again
If you keep spelling Coetzee's name with an A then I will never take you seriously.

id rather spell coEtzees name wrong than say hes a top 10 greatest puncher of all time

u think coatzees a greater puncher than rocky marciano and sonny liston?

Liston is the harder and greater puncher than Coetzee. Marciano is just the harder puncher.

Marciano has one way of fighting...comming forward, no head movement no defense no nothing, but Joe Frazier however is something else and is leagues more talented than Marciano was. Marciano's best punch is the rabbit blow i.e Cockell, Ezzard Charles II, Archie moore. Coetzee can box, slug, has KO power in either hand and can take a GREAT punch.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 22 Nov 2005, 12:24

RazorKO wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
RazorKO wrote: If you keep spelling Coetzee's name with an A then I will never take you seriously.

id rather spell coEtzees name wrong than say hes a top 10 greatest puncher of all time

u think coatzees a greater puncher than rocky marciano and sonny liston?
Liston is the harder and greater puncher than Coetzee. Marciano is just the harder puncher.

Marciano has one way of fighting...comming forward, no head movement no defense no nothing, but Joe Frazier however is something else and is leagues more talented than Marciano was. Marciano's best punch is the rabbit blow i.e Cockell, Ezzard Charles II, Archie moore. Coetzee can box, slug, has KO power in either hand and can take a GREAT punch.

Yeah ... go CoAtzee ... he coulda been a champ for a long time if he never had to fight greats like Greg Page.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 22 Nov 2005, 17:09

evndrbsn wrote:
RazorKO wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

id rather spell coEtzees name wrong than say hes a top 10 greatest puncher of all time

u think coatzees a greater puncher than rocky marciano and sonny liston?
Liston is the harder and greater puncher than Coetzee. Marciano is just the harder puncher.

Marciano has one way of fighting...comming forward, no head movement no defense no nothing, but Joe Frazier however is something else and is leagues more talented than Marciano was. Marciano's best punch is the rabbit blow i.e Cockell, Ezzard Charles II, Archie moore. Coetzee can box, slug, has KO power in either hand and can take a GREAT punch.
Yeah ... go CoAtzee ... he coulda been a champ for a long time if he never had to fight greats like Greg Page.

Howard Cossell 'Greg Page is the second comming of Muhammad Ali'

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 22 Nov 2005, 17:20

RazorKO wrote:
evndrbsn wrote:
RazorKO wrote: Liston is the harder and greater puncher than Coetzee. Marciano is just the harder puncher.

Marciano has one way of fighting...comming forward, no head movement no defense no nothing, but Joe Frazier however is something else and is leagues more talented than Marciano was. Marciano's best punch is the rabbit blow i.e Cockell, Ezzard Charles II, Archie moore. Coetzee can box, slug, has KO power in either hand and can take a GREAT punch.
Yeah ... go CoAtzee ... he coulda been a champ for a long time if he never had to fight greats like Greg Page.
Howard Cossell 'Greg Page is the second comming of Muhammad Ali'

Great to see you agreed.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 22 Nov 2005, 17:48

Nope, that just means that even thought Coetzee was KO'ed at 3:50 by Page, at least he never got starched by Glencoffe Johnson.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 22 Nov 2005, 22:06

Liston is the harder and greater puncher than Coetzee. Marciano is just the harder puncher.

Marciano has one way of fighting...comming forward, no head movement no defense no nothing, but Joe Frazier however is something else and is leagues more talented than Marciano was. Marciano's best punch is the rabbit blow i.e Cockell, Ezzard Charles II, Archie moore. Coetzee can box, slug, has KO power in either hand and can take a GREAT punch.

i suggest u watch the tape again.

While perhaps not one of Rocky's strengths, his defence was certainly not 'bad', as some so-called historians would like to point out. No, Marciano's defence was not bad at all, and it often made for a very difficult fight. He'd come in inch-by-inch, leaning backwards and slightly to the right (away from right leads), gloves high and chin down. The whole point of this was to make himself a smaller target. Once inside, Rocky was a real terror. He would constantly be moving his head, up and down, rolling around, side to side, backwards and forwards, and he'd come in with hard punches from all kinds of inconceivable angles, possibly the most hazardous being the left uppercut which is somehow overlooked. Many men, including great craftsmen, commented on how hard Marciano was to nail with a clean shot. If accomplished masters of the game such as Charles, Walcott, Moore, Louis and LaStarza are saying this, I think we should take their word for it.

- frazier was way more predictable than marciano

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 22 Nov 2005, 22:09

RazorKO wrote:Nope, that just means that even thought Coetzee was KO'ed at 3:50 by Page, at least he never got starched by Glencoffe Johnson.

Nope, CoAtzee was starched in one round by Frank Bruno, who was hardly the caliber of fighter Glen Johnson is. Frank Bruno: Big puncher, bad stamina, even worse chin. CoAtzee: So-so chin, good power, horrible stamina. I dare you to say CoAtzee was not at his best in the Bruno fight because then you will just look stupid. Neither was Roy, so whats the point? At least Roy went nine rounds and was competitive during a couple of them. CoAtzee went timber in the Bruno fight (and most others), just like your buddy Ruddock. Remember Lewis-Ruddock? Tiimmmmbber! That was funny. You should watch the clip again, it would be good for you.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 23 Nov 2005, 00:08

rocky marciano KO 1 gerrie coatzee

sonny liston KO 1 gerrie coatzee

joe louis KO 1 gerrie coatzee

Irish · Post by **Irish** » 23 Nov 2005, 00:16

I adknowledge Holmes greatness as a fighter, his long reign, but I am not overly impressed he got some close decisions and duck fighters IMO, and I will give him credit for his great jab, but I dont think he is quite at Joe Louis' level (not many are, IMO Louis, Ali, and Marciano are at a step above the rest) and he was a "sucker"(I cant spell the word I want to use) for a right and Joe Louis could certainly throw a right, I pick Louis TKO9.

hawaiianpunch · Post by **hawaiianpunch** » 23 Nov 2005, 05:36

I respect both fighters and careerwise I'd rank Louis #1 all time even above Ali, but at their BEST I'd give Holmes the slight edge by UD. I don't think Louis would KO a prime Holmes, that shot that Shaver's hit him with was unbelieveable and somehow he got up. I think Louis may hurt or even drop Holmes in the fight, but Holmes could definately do the same to Louis. Holmes UD 9 rounds to 6

.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 23 Nov 2005, 09:41

evndrbsn wrote: Yeah ... go CoAtzee ... he coulda been a champ for a long time if he never had to fight greats like Greg Page.

Nonsense...

http://www.expats.co.za/extra/images/me ... oetzee.jpg

Forget CoAt-Zee, I say KALLIE KNOETZE would have been a great champ if he hadn't run into all time greats like JOHN TATE!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 23 Nov 2005, 10:05

I honestly thought at the time that Knoetze was going to have the better career between him and Coetzee, shows my lack of critique skills back then.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 23 Nov 2005, 13:10

BoxBuzz wrote:I honestly thought at the time that Knoetze was going to have the better career between him and Coetzee, shows my lack of critique skills back then.

Knoetze couldn't even beat CoAtzee. I bet Knoetze does better against Frank Bruno than CoAtzee did. He'd probably KO Razor Ruddock in one round also. He'd already beaten Denton Ruddock in three, who we all know was Donovan's older brother who stole his money before the Lennox Lewis fight.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 23 Nov 2005, 13:57

evndrbsn wrote:
RazorKO wrote:Nope, that just means that even thought Coetzee was KO'ed at 3:50 by Page, at least he never got starched by Glencoffe Johnson.
Nope, CoAtzee was starched in one round by Frank Bruno, who was hardly the caliber of fighter Glen Johnson is. Frank Bruno: Big puncher, bad stamina, even worse chin. CoAtzee: So-so chin, good power, horrible stamina. I dare you to say CoAtzee was not at his best in the Bruno fight because then you will just look stupid. Neither was Roy, so whats the point? At least Roy went nine rounds and was competitive during a couple of them. CoAtzee went timber in the Bruno fight (and most others), just like your buddy Ruddock. Remember Lewis-Ruddock? Tiimmmmbber! That was funny. You should watch the clip again, it would be good for you.

Too late moron, I already explain why he was past his best in the Gerrie Coetzee thread.

Jones was startched by a Glencoffe Johnson - A journeyman fighter who has lost 10 times and doesnt posses a hard punch either. At least Bruno can punch (His punch was measured per square inch and found to be harder than Tysons). Roy Jones ducked a fat old diabetes suffering Buster Douglas - What more can you say? (He also avoided DM)

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 23 Nov 2005, 14:00

Broncano wrote:
evndrbsn wrote: Yeah ... go CoAtzee ... he coulda been a champ for a long time if he never had to fight greats like Greg Page.
Nonsense...

http://www.expats.co.za/extra/images/me ... oetzee.jpg

Forget CoAt-Zee, I say KALLIE KNOETZE would have been a great champ if he hadn't run into all time greats like JOHN TATE!

John Tate former heavy weight champion of the wolrd.

You - a nobody.