the flynn fight was a dive, read up on ur history bud
.
Get your information from more than one source bud. This is a popular speculation that was never substantiated.
carpentier was one of the hardest punching light-H of all time and had knocked out other heavies. and dempsey was simply stunned for 1 split second, so dont give me that.
Yes, a hard punching LIGHTHEAVYWEIGHT. A split second? You need to watch the fight again with a stop clock.
- manuel ramos stunned frazier pretty good in the 1st round if i recall
Ramos was a true heavy who punched alot harder than Carpentier.
bill brennan was a very good boxer puncher, but of course u probably hadvnt read anything about him so you think he sucks, but a good modern day comparison of brennan is slightly less version of jerry quarry.
I've read about Brennan. Never saw him fight though. I dont know how much you've seen of him. I'm guessing not at all.
once again watch demsey on tape, its clear he was the better skilled fighter than frazier.
Ive watched videos of them both countless times. Skill level is debatable, but what is not in my mind is the fact that Frazier would have been too much for the mauler. Frazier tko 5.
One should add Paul Berlenbach to the list of the hardest
punchers in the light-heavyweight division. His knockout
percentage is unbelievable at a time when there weren't
too many fighters who had high k.o. percentages.
how is frazier going to beat dempsey. dempsey is everything frazier is, plus more.
Fraizer had a better chin, stamina physically stronger and hit at the very least, just as hard. Frazier fought much better all around heavyweights than Dempsey and didnt fight in an era that allowed you to stand over your opponent and punch him as he tried to rise. Dempsey was exciting and looked ferocious,but alot of this is due to the opponents he fought. Williard, Morris and Fulton were big slow crude fighters who Dempsey could hit even if he tried to miss. Firpo was a wild swinging brawler who charged right in and probably closed his eyes when he swung.
Brennan was a so-so heavyweight who beat a couple of good lightheavies. He had lost badly to Dempsey before but gave him real trouble in their title match. Gibbons(past his prime) and Carpentier were much too small to be competitve.
Ali,Quarry,Bonavena,Chuvalo,Mathis and Eillis were all better than anyone Dempsey had ever beat, with the possible exception of Sharkey who on occasion showed signs of greatness and probably would have gotten a win against one or two of them.
BB--It's useless to try to debate with some of these people right now, give them a few years to actually learn something about boxings past because right now, well no one has to say anything, they do it all by themselves with their statements!
It's like I heard the name Jim Flynn mentioned...can the person that brought up Flynn actually tell me what kind of fighter Flynn was and describe some of his bouts? NO they can't!
Theirs is a lack of knowledge based entirely on looking at a record, incomplete records at that, so really BB, your just wasting your time because until these cats actually start reading about the old fighters, then they will continue to make the same ridiculous statements because they don't know any better!
barry wrote:BB--It's useless to try to debate with some of these people right now, give them a few years to actually learn something about boxings past because right now, well no one has to say anything, they do it all by themselves with their statements!
It's like I heard the name Jim Flynn mentioned...can the person that brought up Flynn actually tell me what kind of fighter Flynn was and describe some of his bouts? NO they can't!
Theirs is a lack of knowledge based entirely on looking at a record, incomplete records at that, so really BB, your just wasting your time because until these cats actually start reading about the old fighters, then they will continue to make the same ridiculous statements because they don't know any better!
i agree,
amazing how people are actually trying to compare fosters competiton with langfords
- foster may have fought world class heavies, but outside of old dick tiger, foster beat no world class light-H.
I rate foster 6th greatest light-H and competiion is the reason he is not in the top 5
barry wrote:BB--It's useless to try to debate with some of these people right now, give them a few years to actually learn something about boxings past because right now, well no one has to say anything, they do it all by themselves with their statements!
It's like I heard the name Jim Flynn mentioned...can the person that brought up Flynn actually tell me what kind of fighter Flynn was and describe some of his bouts? NO they can't!
Theirs is a lack of knowledge based entirely on looking at a record, incomplete records at that, so really BB, your just wasting your time because until these cats actually start reading about the old fighters, then they will continue to make the same ridiculous statements because they don't know any better!
i agree,
amazing how people are actually trying to compare fosters competiton with langfords
- foster may have fought world class heavies, but outside of old dick tiger, foster beat no world class light-H.
I rate foster 6th greatest light-H and competiion is the reason he is not in the top 5
Of course, you agree. He's basically singing the same song. Now tell him you are 18 and you've seen as little of Flynn and Langford as he has.
PS Don't mention talking to those posters on your bedroom wall.
barry wrote:BB--It's useless to try to debate with some of these people right now, give them a few years to actually learn something about boxings past because right now, well no one has to say anything, they do it all by themselves with their statements!
It's like I heard the name Jim Flynn mentioned...can the person that brought up Flynn actually tell me what kind of fighter Flynn was and describe some of his bouts? NO they can't!
Theirs is a lack of knowledge based entirely on looking at a record, incomplete records at that, so really BB, your just wasting your time because until these cats actually start reading about the old fighters, then they will continue to make the same ridiculous statements because they don't know any better!
i agree,
amazing how people are actually trying to compare fosters competiton with langfords
- foster may have fought world class heavies, but outside of old dick tiger, foster beat no world class light-H.
I rate foster 6th greatest light-H and competiion is the reason he is not in the top 5
Of course, you agree. He's basically singing the same song. Now tell him you are 18 and you've seen as little of Flynn and Langford as he has.
PS Don't mention talking to those posters on your bedroom wall.
collins,
ur a funny guy. honestly ur jokes actually make me laugh but your not going to send me to my room crying or intimidate me from posting here like you did rory about ur braddock comments
- but once again, i am a college athlete. i am a dedicated wrestler and like boxing, u need to be 100% mentally going into the matches. I really work hard physically but thats not enough, and if i dont have confidence or am intimidated then i might as well not even step out on the mat. I need to have the sonny liston stare or "eye of the tiger" when i step out on the mat. I need to think in my mind that im the best theres no way im going to lose to him. boxers have many rituals they do before they enter the ring. It makes them feel like it will either give them good confidence or good luck. I simply touch Louis and marciano's picture and say 3 words "be with me." I DONT TALK to the pictures. it gives me the inner sense of confidence that I know late in the match if I am down, I will have two legends giving me the extra will to go on and the extra strength and skill they had when they needed to win late in the match. I honestly dont see what the big deal is. athletes have done far more corny or weird rituals than I have. so unless ur not a real athlete and never played sports in ur life, then u dont see where im coming from.
amazing how people are actually trying to compare fosters competiton with langfords
- foster may have fought world class heavies, but outside of old dick tiger, foster beat no world class light-H.
I rate foster 6th greatest light-H and competiion is the reason he is not in the top 5
Of course, you agree. He's basically singing the same song. Now tell him you are 18 and you've seen as little of Flynn and Langford as he has.
PS Don't mention talking to those posters on your bedroom wall.
collins,
ur a funny guy. honestly ur jokes actually make me laugh but your not going to send me to my room crying or intimidate me from posting here like you did rory about ur braddock comments
- but once again, i am a college athlete. i am a dedicated wrestler and like boxing, u need to be 100% mentally going into the matches. I really work hard physically but thats not enough, and if i dont have confidence or am intimidated then i might as well not even step out on the mat. I need to have the sonny liston stare or "eye of the tiger" when i step out on the mat. I need to think in my mind that im the best theres no way im going to lose to him. boxers have many rituals they do before they enter the ring. It makes them feel like it will either give them good confidence or good luck. I simply touch Louis and marciano's picture and say 3 words "be with me." I DONT TALK to the pictures. it gives me the inner sense of confidence that I know late in the match if I am down, I will have two legends giving me the extra will to go on and the extra strength and skill they had when they needed to win late in the match. I honestly dont see what the big deal is. athletes have done far more corny or weird rituals than I have. so unless ur not a real athlete and never played sports in ur life, then u dont see where im coming from.
So, you DO have a sense of humour, Brocky. Good man.
Yeah, you're right. The poster business isn't as bad as I hinted at. But I just know you love exageration and hyperbole so who am I to deny you that?
You reckon I scared off Rory? Surely not? Why, because I had a bit of a laugh at some of his posts? You have a to admit some of them were a bit over the top.
i actually laughed behind my computer when u said "talk to your pictures". idk why the way u said it sounded hilarious.
You reckon I scared off Rory? Surely not? Why, because I had a bit of a laugh at some of his posts? You have a to admit some of them were a bit over the top.
yes i defintley agree some were over the top. and i am not gonna lie when I say I laughed my ass off at a couple jokes u made toward rory.
I wonder where rory has been? i didnt know he was that sensitive kid.
..damn....i've been looking for months for an old ring magazine in which nat fleischer has the best kayo percentages of the light heavies....currently rated (at the time of the article ) and of past light heavy champions..and the highest was the number one rated lightheavy at the time ...ezzard charles. now i've got to take a break from the pre-christmas hurly burly (no relation to charley) and really dig in so i can print his list here.
Good reference with berlanbach. one guy said "oom paul" (his nickname) "hit me in the somach so hard I was afraid his fist was going to come out of my back."
satterfield..hardest puncher of them all....if he got there in time. for much o fhis career though he liked to come in at around 180..185....not at 175.
Jaclem---It's the June 1949 issue correct, it has KO, KO%, 1st round KO's, etc listed and all-time punchers for every weight class...though I'm pretty sure that the article and list was written by someone other than Fleischer. I've been updating a similar list since there has been a lot of research done since then...though I don't have the fighters by weight class.
Did you know the record of Paul Berlenbach? And the Argentinians José Carattoli and Atilio Caraune (with more than consecutive 20 knock outs)? Carattoli beat Tommy Loughran and ko'ed a great puncher as Isidoro Gastañaga or the Olympic Champion Víctor Avendaño... And Bob Murphy?
He was a strong puncher, too
Thank's for letting us know about the 20 consecutive knockouts that Atilio Caraune scored...I wasn't aware of it and among the many lists that I have and of which I am constantly updating, one of them is "Most Consecutive Knockouts" which I am listing all the fighters that scored 15+ consecutive knockouts sometime in their career.
Berlanbach was someone that I overlooked when making this list. I'm not sure exactly where he would belong, but certainly at least honorable mention.
It seems that Moore and Langford are getting a lot of support, so I would like to commnet on them.
I really thinks it's a myth of how Moore showed awesome power against heavyweights. Take a hard look at his record, what really good heavyweight did he ever stop ? And remember, Archie wasn't a light-heavyweight himslef in most of his fights against heavyweights.
We are talking about who is the hardest light-heavyweight punchers.
As for Lanford, unfortunately the information on his weight is very sketchy. He stated out atunder 140 pounds and weighed over 200 by the end of career. Most of fights we don't know how much he weighed. Therefore, how do we know that he weighed 175 (the lightheavyweight limit) or less when he knocked out anyone of note?
As for Foster, it's really unfair to say that becasue he didn't knock out heavyweights that coudn't be the hardest punching lightheavyweight. You have to loook at what he did against light heavyweights.
He has a very high knockout percentage, against not great but decent overall competition. In his first 12 title defenses, he scored 11 knockouts.
His knockout over Tiger is impressive when you consider he flattened a guy who was never been stopped in any other fight in his career, including 2 fights against Jose Torres who was a hard punching light heavyweight.
The knockout of Mike Quarry was about as brutal as you are ever going to see. Quarry was out cold for minutes.
He also knocked out Henry Hank, who was a good fighter who was never stopped in other fight in a 97 fight career.
I just don't see any real evidence that anyone at 175 or less ever punched harder than Foster.
Berlanbach should definately be up there with the biggest Light-heavy hitters as should Jack Delaney, known mainly as a great boxer but who also had a great punch too... the Light-heavies of the 20s were something else and probably about 5 or 6 of the all time top 10 light-heavies ever fought in that era....
You should know all about Berlanbach Brockton as he was an Olimpic champion wreastler as well...
Another name that hasn't been mentioned is Fitzie Fitzpatrick. He was very dangerous in the first couple rounds of a fight, and was capable of blowing out decent fighters. He had Charles down for a nine-count in the 2nd round of their 1947 fight.
Dear Friends Ambling Alp, Silkov, Tegenm and Decagon, thanks you for your answers. All we remember now Berlenbach! May be that the LH of the '20 had five or six of the all time greatest, may be. Archie Moore knocked out the good heavy Alejandro Lavorante (who ko'ed Zora Folley) and knocked down Rocky Marciano (!!!); I'm writing only with memory, please, excused me when I don't remind any other precisions.
And dear Barry, how hard and very good is your work! In this moment I add this other big punchers: Al Hostak (16), Darío Azuaga, a Paraguayan bantam (more of 20), Marcos Giménez, another boy from Paraguay (more than 20, too), Eder Jofre (17), Abel Laudonio, Carlos Cañete and Eduardo Lausse (18 the three), Juan Domingo Suárez (16), Walter Matthysse (19, active), Rubén Olivares and Carlos Zárate twice surpassed the 20 triumphs by K.O., Rocky Rivero hadn't all consecutive because he had a victory on points between all his firsts K.O. (see it in BoxRec); Julio César Chávez scored 20 K.O. opening his career, and George Foreman surpassed twice the 15 fights winning by K.O.; Allotey is not sure because there was any years with record unavailable; Jesús Pimentel, another Mexican, had a very good mark of K.O. streak, and Ricardo "Pajarito" Moreno (too from México!) twice scored more than 15 K.O. triumphs;
and Sean O'Grady and Carmelo Negrón? Are you sure Rodolfo González scaled 35? Please, excused that I don't put the years, but in this moment I'm working with my memory only; best regards, Barry!
Barry: José Carattoli scored 14 or 15 K.O., and Víctor Zalazar, another Argentinian, but middleweight, from the start of his boxing record, had 15 K.O. winning streak; I hope that this facts help you in your excellent work