BoxRec

Sullivan was indeed important to the sport; no one is questioning that. That he was the best of his time is highly questionable since he avoided black fighter like the plague. Whether he could compete as effectively with modern training today as he did in his time, is also questionable. There are plenty of street brawlers out there as tough as Sullivan was in his time that could never be great boxers no matter how much you try to train them. But theres still a possibilty Sullivan could have.
But to think that he could compete in todays fight game with the primative skills he used back then is dellusional.

do you honestly thing that there will ever be a hitter to even come close to a Ty Cobb, or Babe Ruth?

Take one of Babe Ruths baseball clips and watch on it slow motion to take away the herky jerky factor. What you will see is as fluid and beautiful a swing as any modern day player could hope to have.

Watch one of those early century fights on slow motion and their style still looks awkward and primative compared to modern fighter.

I think Mickey Mantle was the greatest slugger who ever lived, the man was the most gifted fighter ever. only 5'11 200lb and can hit a ball over 600' from BOTH SIDES OF THE PLATE! his stats are deceiving, remember almost every year he played injured or hung over which was his own fault! he was a legend, a ultimate team player who was loved unlike joe dimagio and ted williams. the man could do it all, if he took care of himself he would have well hit over 600 home runs. there wasnt much mantle could not do. he could hit, hit with power, he could run like the wind, he could field like mays, and he was a leader.




ok now im getting off subject here!

I think Mickey Mantle was the greatest slugger who ever lived, the man was the most gifted fighter ever.

Cant argue the first part of this sentence but second half is quite baffling.

only 5'11 200lb and can hit a ball over 600' from BOTH SIDES OF THE PLATE! his stats are deceiving, remember almost every year he played injured or hung over which was his own fault! he was a legend,

This is true. Mantle could hit the ball farther than any man in history.

a ultimate team player who was loved unlike joe dimagio and ted williams.

Actually Dimaggio was quite the baseball deity in his time and after.

ok now im getting off subject here!

One thing I can say about you Brock, whether I agree with you or not, almost everything you say is interesting.

LOL i just realized instead of saying "mantle was the most gifted hitter ever", i said "mantle was the most gifted fighter ever"



mantle KO 1 valuev - mantle connects off valuev jaw with a southpaw stance baseball bat and then suddenly mantle switches to right and lands a devastating swing into valuevs face and valuev crumbles to the canvas out cold!


and sorry ur right dimaggio was loved. but dimaggio wasnt much of a team player, he was unfreindly. but dimaggio was very much loved

[quote="theone"]Sullivan was indeed important to the sport; no one is questioning that. That he was the best of his time is highly questionable since he avoided black fighter like the plague.

Yes, but don't believe for one second that it was because he was afraid of blacks. He wasn't at all. He just considered it beneath him. In fact he considered it beneath ALL white fighters and loudly denounced Tommy Burns for agreeing to fight Jack Johnson.

I think he would have KO'd Peter Jackson.

I think peter jackson was better than corbett and sullivan. I think peter jackson was the best of that era. too bad theres no film of peter to back my claim up

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:I think peter jackson was better than corbett and sullivan. I think peter jackson was the best of that era. too bad theres no film of peter to back my claim up

Why do you think he was best?

valuev couldnt even beat an old journeyman in larry donald or a past his prime poor mans sullivan in ruiz. hows he gonna beat sullivan who will be all over him beating the shit out him the whole fight? valuve tries to clinch sullivan sullivan will either toss him or beat the shit out of him on the inside. sullivan was far too physical and tough for valuev.

ill tell u this, the only time i saw sullivan on tape was when he was an old fat man doing a little joke of quick sparring with jim corbett. and let me tell u sullivan did the most incredible feints i have ever seen. they had me completley faked out. Sullivan really knew his stuff, he was not a bufoon. I watched the way he pretended to throw punches. He did not throw wide punches. It looked like he threw straight punches to me. I can see why he was so great. and take a look at his hands and forearms, THEY ARE HUGE! I would not want to get hit by John L. the man was as tough as they come also. I have read some intense stories on him.


and now we got a ugly hairy giant whos slow, uncoordinated, weak, has no skill, and doesnt even compare to sullivan on the toughness scale and hes supposed to beat sullivan?

>>>Valuev might not be much, but he's an incredibly strong boxer. Did you see the way he manhandled Clifford Etienne?<<<


I saw that...I also saw the rather physically weak Fres Oquendo man-handle Etienne as well, so that's not a big accomplishment and the fact that a talentless welp like Ruiz could bust up Valuev's face and generally take the giant to the very limit of his ability then manner that he did, well that tells me all I need to know. A dynamo like Sullivan would just absolutely brutalize Valuev!

Decagon wrote:

dr_devious wrote:John L Sullivan was the best fighter of his day, the 1880s. Although his style is completely different, and crude compared to today's style of boxing, the fact that he was the best fighter of his period (give or take Peter Jackson), would suggest that he is an exceptional fighter and would have the talent to adapt to todays style if he were trained in the modern way. Valuev is no more than a handy European level fighter and John L was the best of his day, if they both met in the same era John L would batter him

Sullivan was the best man of his day... among white, English speaking boxers. How is that any better than being, for instance, the Russian Heavyweight Champion today?

In the late 19th Century boxing / prizefighting was predominantly practised in the USA, UK, Australia etc i.e. in English speaking countries. I made mention in my post that John L didnt take on black fighters, Peter Jackson being the foremost black fighter of the day and the main threat to his supremacy. Which other fighters do you think could have toppled Sullivan in the 1880s? I would say that given John L defeated guys like Jake Kilrain and Charlie Mitchell puts him at world champion level in his era. I know your argument is that todays fighters are technically superior to yesteryear, which im not arguing against, but again era for era, John L is at least 3 levels better than Valuev.

Decagon wrote:

silkov wrote:Boxing isn't bench pressing!... as it happens Sullivan was an all round athlete who was extremely strong, he would have run rings around Valuev!...

I'm just asking Barry how he knows that Sullivan was "stronger" than Valuev. Valuev might not be much, but he's an incredibly strong boxer. Did you see the way he manhandled Clifford Etienne?

How do you know that Valuev is stronger than Sullivan?... Sullivan was known for his feats of strength before he was known as a fighter.... Sullivan was an all round athlete...

Who said that Sullivan was stronger than Valuev? I just said that Sullivan would beat the shit out of Valuev and that Sullivan was physically one of the strongest fighters to ever step through the ropes and from that you got that I said Sullivan was stronger? For someone so interested in correcting grammar, you certainly need to take a few reading lessons, or is it that you are just trying to make up things again? Sorry...didn't work before and it won't work now!

And yes Oquendo did man-handle Etienne!

How old are you?

Sullivan probably was stronger than Valuev, he was fast and mobile at his peak, neither of which you could say about Valuev. When you are 7 feet tall your size is as much a hinderence as anything else, its not really an advantage at all and Valuev has done well to get where he is, for which I respect him a lot...