Audley Harrison v Dominic Guinn, April 14th

dve3333 · Post by **dve3333** » 06 Feb 2006, 11:08

The question is Guinn as good as Danny. Has to be on same level as him and they could have gone back to their old ways and chosen a complete bum

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Feb 2006, 11:10

Terence wrote:
nickd wrote:As far as I am concerned he is a wanker you cant make that much noise about how good you are then put in an effort like that. Everyone is entitled to an off night but this was more than that the guy was frightened to get hit against a fat out of shape Williams. I've always thought Harrison's confidence and belief were a bit of a facade, its just never seemed genuine to me and the Williams fight would indicate that is the case.
He may have seemed frightened to get hit but he got hit, went down and fought back. If he more than seemed frightened of getting hit then why get back up? Some on here suggest he is a coward but if so why did he not sit-out the count? Boxing can throw up strange stories and if Harrison comes back firing from this defeat then a lot of people are going to look very silly indeed. Harrison made a lot of noise and got complacent and needed a kick-up the arse, he got one and maybe he'll learn from this. He may be a wanker, he may be aloof, he may not stand in the corner spouting banalities for the press and fans but he is also a very gifted fighter who now as a chance to come back and make all the people who call him a coward or lash out at him seem, well like wankers

I really dont think he's going anywhere. I don't think he'll even win a domestic title unless Skelton retires. Even then I'd pick Williams or Sprott to beat him.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Feb 2006, 11:10

They should bill this one as "CAN'T FIGHT WON'T FIGHT"

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 06 Feb 2006, 11:15

nickd wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:This is a MASSIVE fight for Audley and its a tough one, Guinn has better wins than Audley on his record and although hes lost a few at the top level hes not been outclassed (maybe other than the Toney fight). Hopefully we'll see Guinn try and pressure Audley, so we can see if December 10th was an off night for Audley, he always seems to fight better when hes in the US.

Guinn is in for a right fornicating hiding, hes going to feel the full force of the December 10th backlash.

I reckon Audley makes a few style and aggression amendments, then comes out on April 14th and makes a statement. It'll be great to see the BIG man back in the ring again

Come on Audley!!!!

What aggression?

Since he has thous far lacked in showing any aggression at all, the slightest bit would be an increase over his past fights. Really, I dont want to see 10 or 12 rounds of Jabs from him.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 06 Feb 2006, 11:23

Chambers mate, come on. An aggression amendment? We're not talking about some machine here where you just change a few settings here and there.

Not that I expect anything of the kind, but IMO Audley's only hope of beating Guinn is to go straight out and try for a first round KO. How is he going to cope here if he couldn't even handle Danny Williams, who clearly had spent next to no time in the gym prior to their fight? Guinn isn't great but he'll put on twice the pressure Williams managed.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 07 Feb 2006, 06:57

Terence wrote:
nickd wrote:As far as I am concerned he is a wanker you cant make that much noise about how good you are then put in an effort like that. Everyone is entitled to an off night but this was more than that the guy was frightened to get hit against a fat out of shape Williams. I've always thought Harrison's confidence and belief were a bit of a facade, its just never seemed genuine to me and the Williams fight would indicate that is the case.
He may have seemed frightened to get hit but he got hit, went down and fought back. If he more than seemed frightened of getting hit then why get back up? Some on here suggest he is a coward but if so why did he not sit-out the count? Boxing can throw up strange stories and if Harrison comes back firing from this defeat then a lot of people are going to look very silly indeed. Harrison made a lot of noise and got complacent and needed a kick-up the arse, he got one and maybe he'll learn from this. He may be a wanker, he may be aloof, he may not stand in the corner spouting banalities for the press and fans but he is also a very gifted fighter who now as a chance to come back and make all the people who call him a coward or lash out at him seem, well like wankers

Don't forget that Harrison is 35 this year; he also has very little stamina.

He will never amount to anything as a pro.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2006, 07:00

I have zero interest in anything Harrison does after seeing his 'fight' with Williams.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Feb 2006, 07:38

His lack of stamina is pretty unbelievable for a professional athlete.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 07 Feb 2006, 08:51

He is taking a very difficult come back fight, for that he aught to be respected. I think audley was unlucky not to get the decision but it was a 50/50 in a bad fight I grant you. However the loss seems to be good for him if he realises what he needs to do to imporove and regain credability. Hopefuly that will be the case.

In terms of what aggression, whatch harrison Negus or the one who jumped on Herssisia, lesser fighters clearly but aggression non the less. If audley wins this he can legitimatly call for other big fights.

Good news and a brave decision. I hope that guin isn't running the risk of getting hurt.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 07 Feb 2006, 09:08

josh fg wrote:He is taking a very difficult come back fight, for that he aught to be respected. I think audley was unlucky not to get the decision but it was a 50/50 in a bad fight I grant you. However the loss seems to be good for him if he realises what he needs to do to imporove and regain credability. Hopefuly that will be the case.

In terms of what aggression, whatch harrison Negus or the one who jumped on Herssisia, lesser fighters clearly but aggression non the less. If audley wins this he can legitimatly call for other big fights.

Good news and a brave decision. I hope that guin isn't running the risk of getting hurt.

When I read posts like this, I start to think that maybe I'm a bit harsh on Harrison, but I just can't see the aggression you are referring to.

Negus was a cruiserweight nightclub bouncer who was banned for steroid abuse after the fight!

Hersissia was very poor. Any decent HW would have bombed him out a lot sooner.

I was always suspicious of Harrison, right from the time that he put all of his effort ito KO'ing some cruiserweight in his pro debut (a fight he should have won without even blinking) & the fact that he always seemed to be 'injured'.

I just do not share all this optimism over Harrison.

Danny Williams was his first true test & he was exposed Premiership style!

Also, he never had any stamina to start with & he isn't going to get any in his mid 30's!

I seriously think that Audley's fans need to find a new bandwagon to ride on, as the man is going to disappoint you big time (although he should have done so already).

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2006, 09:44

josh fg wrote:He is taking a very difficult come back fight, for that he aught to be respected. I think audley was unlucky not to get the decision but it was a 50/50 in a bad fight I grant you. However the loss seems to be good for him if he realises what he needs to do to imporove and regain credability. Hopefuly that will be the case.

In terms of what aggression, whatch harrison Negus or the one who jumped on Herssisia, lesser fighters clearly but aggression non the less. If audley wins this he can legitimatly call for other big fights.

Good news and a brave decision. I hope that guin isn't running the risk of getting hurt.

I predict that Guinn will batter audley. Guinn may be damaged goods, but he's been in with far more dangerous fighters than Audley. He went 12 pretty hard fought rounds with James Toney and there's nothing wrong with his chin.

It's one thing to show aggression against someone you need have no fear of, another all together against someone who is going to hit you back. Losing to Toney is no great shame, Toney is the most skilfull heavyweight out there, and apparently the reason for Guinn's prior poor performances were in part at least due to his falling out with his management and not really wanting to fight.

I'm always ready to be proven wrong, but it will take something pretty special, like audley overcoming adversity to beat Guinn for me to take him seriously. If Guinn sleepwalks through the bout and Audley nicks a close one, it proves little or nothing.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2006, 10:24

How can you compare Audley to Calzaghe? Calzaghe is a long established champion who has already proven that he has the stomach for a hard fight against proven contenders.

Calzaghe may have his detractors, but he's got more stomach for a fight than Audley by far.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Feb 2006, 10:46

Come on its not just the Williams performance. There were cracks showing before that, how about doing next to nothing for the first 6 rounds against Davis? His lumbering effort against Bonin? The man does not have any sort of engine and as Syntax says he's not about to start building much stamina aged 34. Harrison always looks pretty cut in his fights, the question is what does he do to achieve that? I have a sneaking suspicion that he might not do much in the way of roadwork, I may be wrong but if he had been pounding out the miles on the road over the last 5 years he'd be able to sustain more than 30 seconds of action per round for sure. Harrison has no chance of winning a world title, his best chance you'd think would be against Valuev but if he shat himself with Danny Williams with all the conditioning of a wooly mammoth in the opposite corner imagine what he'd do facing the giant? People long had suspicions about Harrisons frailties and there were signs through stages of his career that their might be some mileage in those suspicions and they were confirmed wholeheartedly in the Williams fight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2006, 10:47

Audley is 35, and fell at the first reasonable hurdle put in his way. Williams is a sub European championship level fighter, even domestically his form is patchy, with losses to Sprott and Francis.

I just don't really see much grounds for any optimism about Audley's career now. How exactly at 35 is he going to improve sufficiently to do anything in the division?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Feb 2006, 10:49

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Audley is 35, and fell at the first reasonable hurdle put in his way. Williams is a sub European championship level fighter, even domestically his form is patchy, with losses to Sprott and Francis.

I just don't really see much grounds for any optimism about Audley's career now. How exactly at 35 is he going to improve sufficiently to do anything in the division?

Spot on. Harrison is yet to fight for a domestic title and has already come a cropper, in my eyes that is not the makings of a world class fighter.

Yes Harrison is taking a risk against Guinn but a calculated risk, they bank on Guinn having seen better days. If Guinn comes to the ring even remotely like his old self I think he knocks Harrison out.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Feb 2006, 11:23

Fair enough you're a fan but one of the best you've ever seen? That is pushing it surely?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2006, 11:33

Terence wrote:I hear your points guys and I'm not being deliberately obtuse but I see something special in Harrison and am not going to give up on him. Nick, you are correct; I know for a fact he does not do road work so that is why the chassis is good but the engine lacks power. On the other hand he boxes beautifully at times, his power is good, his balance is wonderful, his movement is also and when he lets his hands go he is one of the best I've seen and I'm not some no-nothing internet fan but someone who has been steeped in boxing for years. I am defending Audley in general not on the Williams fight in particular; the criticism has been fierce and IMO a lot of it is of the: "I told you so." variety but also IMO it is jumping the guinn(?) a bit. You are taking a bunch of general rules: "He is over 30.", "Fighters need to run." and applying them but look at the heavyweight division and look at Golota, people said he'd never come back after the Tyson fight. You never know in boxing. Plus you never give up and I'm not going to say: "Oh well thanks for the unsatisfying five years Big Aud' but if you don't mind I'm off to support Amir Khan."

On the criteria that cream (talent) rises to the top I'm still happy to support Audley. When he beats Guinn he'll get stick, if he wins a title or note he'll get stick, if Lewis came back and Audley KO'd him Audley would get stick (Lewis) as well for that matter and finally when he retires Audley will get stick. He is a divisive figure is our Aud' but I'll stick to this side of the divide and continue to enjoy his fights (I actually enjoyed the last one BTW). Audley will become a true Champion and that may sound crazy but then I am a fan. He is going to KO Guinn in spectacular fashion as well.

golota never achieved anything of note save losing every big fight he got after the Tyson fight, albeit closely. the only reason he got the shots was he was managed by Don King.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2006, 11:41

Your ;points are as weak as a gnat's farts Terrence.

If golota is your model of achievement, then you may be right, it wouldn't be difficult to achieve what Golota did as a fighter, which is precisely nothing. The difference is, Bowe, Tyson, Ruiz or Byrd would have totally banjaxed Audley.

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 07 Feb 2006, 11:46

I think it's more of a case of Aud's performance in the ring that you'd be expected to hop of the bandwagon.

If he had decided to prove his detractors wrong about his appetite for battle and went toe to toe with Danny and made it a Danny v Tyson like fight. Obviously these would be exactly the wrong tactics but if he'd got sparked he would have proved his naysayers wrong and gained more than he lost by meekly capitulating the way he did.

No-one disregards his skills honed from years within the amateur system. But he does not have the makings of a pro boxer and never will.

Even if he had KO'd Danny in the 11th that would still be the conclusion many would have drawn.

Exile · Post by **Exile** » 07 Feb 2006, 12:46

In regards to Golota getting numerous Title shots, aswell as having Don King as his promoter he also has a very large fan base and you also never know what is going to happen in the ring when the crazy pole is involved.

In my opinion Audley had the talent to win a portion of the HW titles but his apparent lack of desire has proved to be his downfall which is a shame considering the lack of depth in the division.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2006, 12:54

Yes, I forgot to mention, Golota had HUGE following amongst the sizable Polish community in Chicago.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Feb 2006, 13:09

Is there any reason Harrison doesn't do any roadwork? Boy does he need it.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 07 Feb 2006, 13:23

Terence wrote:I hear your points guys and I'm not being deliberately obtuse but I see something special in Harrison and am not going to give up on him. Nick, you are correct; I know for a fact he does not do road work so that is why the chassis is good but the engine lacks power. On the other hand he boxes beautifully at times, his power is good, his balance is wonderful, his movement is also and when he lets his hands go he is one of the best I've seen and I'm not some no-nothing internet fan but someone who has been steeped in boxing for years. I am defending Audley in general not on the Williams fight in particular; the criticism has been fierce and IMO a lot of it is of the: "I told you so." variety but also IMO it is jumping the guinn(?) a bit. You are taking a bunch of general rules: "He is over 30.", "Fighters need to run." and applying them but look at the heavyweight division and look at Golota, people said he'd never come back after the Tyson fight. You never know in boxing. Plus you never give up and I'm not going to say: "Oh well thanks for the unsatisfying five years Big Aud' but if you don't mind I'm off to support Amir Khan."

On the criteria that cream (talent) rises to the top I'm still happy to support Audley. When he beats Guinn he'll get stick, if he wins a title or note he'll get stick, if Lewis came back and Audley KO'd him Audley would get stick (Lewis) as well for that matter and finally when he retires Audley will get stick. He is a divisive figure is our Aud' but I'll stick to this side of the divide and continue to enjoy his fights (I actually enjoyed the last one BTW). Audley will become a true Champion and that may sound crazy but then I am a fan. He is going to KO Guinn in spectacular fashion as well.

Some excellent posts Terence

People have been too quick to right Audley off IMO lets see what happens in the Guinn fight, it would be a fantastic result if Audley could be the first one to stop him, but whether he wins or loses I'll still be a fan

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Feb 2006, 13:25

Harrison could win it on points but I seriously doubt he has a chance of knocking him out. Toney landed countless hard shots per round yet couldn't put a dent in him, and Harrison's handful of punches a round is going to KO him? Hardly likely.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 07 Feb 2006, 13:31

Chambers2 wrote:
Terence wrote:I hear your points guys and I'm not being deliberately obtuse but I see something special in Harrison and am not going to give up on him. Nick, you are correct; I know for a fact he does not do road work so that is why the chassis is good but the engine lacks power. On the other hand he boxes beautifully at times, his power is good, his balance is wonderful, his movement is also and when he lets his hands go he is one of the best I've seen and I'm not some no-nothing internet fan but someone who has been steeped in boxing for years. I am defending Audley in general not on the Williams fight in particular; the criticism has been fierce and IMO a lot of it is of the: "I told you so." variety but also IMO it is jumping the guinn(?) a bit. You are taking a bunch of general rules: "He is over 30.", "Fighters need to run." and applying them but look at the heavyweight division and look at Golota, people said he'd never come back after the Tyson fight. You never know in boxing. Plus you never give up and I'm not going to say: "Oh well thanks for the unsatisfying five years Big Aud' but if you don't mind I'm off to support Amir Khan."

On the criteria that cream (talent) rises to the top I'm still happy to support Audley. When he beats Guinn he'll get stick, if he wins a title or note he'll get stick, if Lewis came back and Audley KO'd him Audley would get stick (Lewis) as well for that matter and finally when he retires Audley will get stick. He is a divisive figure is our Aud' but I'll stick to this side of the divide and continue to enjoy his fights (I actually enjoyed the last one BTW). Audley will become a true Champion and that may sound crazy but then I am a fan. He is going to KO Guinn in spectacular fashion as well.
Some excellent posts Terence

People have been too quick to right Audley off IMO lets see what happens in the Guinn fight, it would be a fantastic result if Audley could be the first one to stop him, but whether he wins or loses I'll still be a fan

No one wrote Audley off, he wrote himself off. e basically didn't show up to fight the biggest fight of his life thus far...yes, bigger than the gold medal. He had a very beatable opponent in Williams, and had his window of opportunity sitting in front of him. And what did he do with that window? He slammed it shut on his own fingers and cost himself dearly in regards to getting a World Title shot anytime soon. He is 34 years old, and is still looking for a good win as a pro. He's beaten some good opponents, but nothing that would put him in that World Class status that he put himself in before the Williams fight. All that before the fight, not including calling Williams a clubfighter and nothing more, and then goes out and basically puts his tail between his legs and gives in during the fight. He has talent, but he lacks the desire and heart to make anything of that talent.