BoxRec

Decagon wrote:Lewis didn't lose to the Roland LaStarzas of the world.

Arsenal wrote:As a Lewis fan I would say Lewis. As you point out Lewis dominated for longer. However Marciano beat everyone in front of him and being an undefeated champion is something. However if they fought I would say Lewis would win on points or maybe, just maybe KO Marciano but that would be tough. I just can't see Marciano beating Lewis. But does being undefeated necessarily mean that you are better than someone else? I don't think so. And is Marciano's era better than the one Lewis fought in?
I think too much is made of Lewis defeats because he avenged them which is what all great champions do. Tyson getting beat by Douglas was a bigger upset but this doesn't seem to sway people away from Tyson's feats as champion. McCall and Rahman may have been 2nd rate but you can't deny they could both hit.

As regards Lewis defeats I think the McCall fight was stopped way too early. Lewis was a young fighter, hadn't been in lots of tough fights and had never been knocked down. He got up, on shaky legs yes, but he got up. Why don't people ever mentiont that? They always say he got Koed twice. Look at boxers who were in alot worse condition and took more punishment than Lewis and were allowed to continue. I'm seen refs literally drag fighters up off the floor. Lewis gets knocked down for the first time and the ref stops it. Thats a bit suspious to me.

As for the Rahman KO that punch would have Koed any HW in history including Ali, Marciano, Tyson etc. Lewis was winning the fight and got caught by a sucker punch. That can happen to anyone including the best.
No-one makes a deal of the fact that every time Tyson was knocked down he lost. Exactly like Lewis. Too me that says one thing - You have to KO them to beat them. Thats shows they are tough!

Louis was Koed by Schemling in a big upset. Does that take away from what he achieved? No. If you take Tyson-Douglas, Louis-Schemling, Lewis-McCall and Lewis-Rahman and look at the bettinbg which were the biggest upsets? Also where were Douglas, McCall, Rahman and Schemling ranked when they fought the champions. Getting beaten by an outsider shouldn't take away from a boxers achievements especially if they avenge those defeats (Robinson v Turpin is a good example).

Overall you could say Marciano was a better champion because he was undeated but Lewis reigned for longer, had more defences and I think he would beat Marciano.

thunderfromdownunder wrote:

Arsenal wrote:As a Lewis fan I would say Lewis. As you point out Lewis dominated for longer. However Marciano beat everyone in front of him and being an undefeated champion is something. However if they fought I would say Lewis would win on points or maybe, just maybe KO Marciano but that would be tough. I just can't see Marciano beating Lewis. But does being undefeated necessarily mean that you are better than someone else? I don't think so. And is Marciano's era better than the one Lewis fought in?
I think too much is made of Lewis defeats because he avenged them which is what all great champions do. Tyson getting beat by Douglas was a bigger upset but this doesn't seem to sway people away from Tyson's feats as champion. McCall and Rahman may have been 2nd rate but you can't deny they could both hit.

As regards Lewis defeats I think the McCall fight was stopped way too early. Lewis was a young fighter, hadn't been in lots of tough fights and had never been knocked down. He got up, on shaky legs yes, but he got up. Why don't people ever mentiont that? They always say he got Koed twice. Look at boxers who were in alot worse condition and took more punishment than Lewis and were allowed to continue. I'm seen refs literally drag fighters up off the floor. Lewis gets knocked down for the first time and the ref stops it. Thats a bit suspious to me.

As for the Rahman KO that punch would have Koed any HW in history including Ali, Marciano, Tyson etc. Lewis was winning the fight and got caught by a sucker punch. That can happen to anyone including the best.
No-one makes a deal of the fact that every time Tyson was knocked down he lost. Exactly like Lewis. Too me that says one thing - You have to KO them to beat them. Thats shows they are tough!

Louis was Koed by Schemling in a big upset. Does that take away from what he achieved? No. If you take Tyson-Douglas, Louis-Schemling, Lewis-McCall and Lewis-Rahman and look at the bettinbg which were the biggest upsets? Also where were Douglas, McCall, Rahman and Schemling ranked when they fought the champions. Getting beaten by an outsider shouldn't take away from a boxers achievements especially if they avenge those defeats (Robinson v Turpin is a good example).

Overall you could say Marciano was a better champion because he was undeated but Lewis reigned for longer, had more defences and I think he would beat Marciano.

true, true and true
good post.

Arsenal wrote:As a Lewis fan I would say Lewis. As you point out Lewis dominated for longer. However Marciano beat everyone in front of him and being an undefeated champion is something. However if they

As regards Lewis defeats I think the McCall fight was stopped way too early. Lewis was a young fighter, hadn't been in lots of tough fights and had never been knocked down. He got up, on shaky legs yes, but he got up.

As for the Rahman KO that punch would have Koed any HW in history including Ali, Marciano, Tyson etc. Lewis was winning the fight and got caught by a sucker punch. !

.

dempseyfire wrote:

Arsenal wrote:As a Lewis fan I would say Lewis. As you point out Lewis dominated for longer. However Marciano beat everyone in front of him and being an undefeated champion is something. However if they

As regards Lewis defeats I think the McCall fight was stopped way too early. Lewis was a young fighter, hadn't been in lots of tough fights and had never been knocked down. He got up, on shaky legs yes, but he got up.

As for the Rahman KO that punch would have Koed any HW in history including Ali, Marciano, Tyson etc. Lewis was winning the fight and got caught by a sucker punch. !

.

That is complete crap. An old Holyfield took SEVERAL FLUSH right hands from Hasim without even blinkingm including one with a semi-running start just like Lennox did in S. Africa.

The likes of Al Cole, Obed Sullivan, and Oleg Masgaev took the best Rahman could offer. This whole "Rahman's KO punch of Lewis would've taken out Ali" is BS, plain and simple.

All time great fighters suck it up and don't lose to the B and C level fighters just b/c they're having a bad night. Holmes (vs Weaver and Snipes) Ali (vs Lyle and Bonavena) Louis (Godoy 1 and Conn) and Marciano (Charles 11, Moore) were able to rough it out on their bad nights and get the W (please don't compare Hasim Rahman to Max Schmeling . . .that's all I'll say to that) Lewis looked like crap vs Rahman . . .it was an even fight and he let himself get clocked. And as another poster said, even if you get up, falling into the referee is not gonna get him to let the fight continue a la McCall. Lewis could suck it up as shown vs Bruno but in many fights in which there were close fights he allowed himself to lose the final round or rounds (Holyfield 11, Mercer) and to generally get outworked. That's not what all time great fighters do He is what I'd call a 'periphery' great but not in the league of the all time greats like Marciano or Ali.

Arsenal wrote:Lewis may have been stumbling but his eyes were clear and thats the most important thing. I've seen fighters in alot worse state than Lewis and the ref allowing it to continue. I've seen refs literally drag fighters off the floor. How many times have fights gone on far too long and after people say the fight should have been stopped earlier? Lewis got up and was shaky but he was World champion for christs sake, should he not have been given a chance to continue? The ref could have let him continue and stopped it if he didn't recover. It was the first time he was knocked down, he was young and he hadn't been in loads of tough fights and taken alot of punishment. Its crap that some people think that punch that Rahman caught Lewis with wasn't good! Rahman may have caught other people flush on the chin but with nothing like what he caught Lewis with.