BoxRec

The Hawk wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote:ottke proved he didn't wanna fight calzaghe by not taking him on in his last fight.

he let the fornicating side down there. :x

Ottke wanted no part of Calzaghe at all, the fight should of happened, everything Ottke done, Calzaghe done it better!

it annoys me when people argue calzaghe avoided ottke. ottke proved he weren't interested when he sneaked out the back door and didn't even take calzaghe on in his last fight.

ottke even pretended he had never heard of calzaghe when sky asked him about joe before the starie fight.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hmm, bit of a simplistic view mate. Calzaghe beat some of his opponents in more spectacular style, but Ottke often faced better younger versions, and he also fought a lot more often.

The best that can be said is that NEITHER man ever proved themselves the best in the division beyond doubt.

Right on the button with that last comment. If Calzaghe were to have retired before the Lacy fight, he would be questioned for all-time if he was truly a champion. Ottke left a lot on the table, just as Joe has thus far in his career. The fact that he took the Lacy fight for a second time really raised my eyebrows a bit, and I do have more respect for him...not much, but he's moving in the right direction, just 4 years too late.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hmm, bit of a simplistic view mate. Calzaghe beat some of his opponents in more spectacular style, but Ottke often faced better younger versions, and he also fought a lot more often.

The best that can be said is that NEITHER man ever proved themselves the best in the division beyond doubt.

Thats true James, Calzaghe did get to them after Sven Ottke, I think even if it was the other way round, and Calzaghe got to them before Ottke did he would of done a better job on them. More down to his fighting style and the fact he hits harder than Ottke.

On a better note on Ottke, he was good at what he done and I surpose I am being hard on him more to the point I could not take to his style. I could not have seen a "peak" Ottke beating Calzaghe. There was a point when Ottke was more active than Joe and that put him in the shadows no question, its always hard to settle these things when the fights never happened and your going on what you think would of happened. Shame it never did though, even though the fight itself could have been dull, it would of settled a score.

On a brighter note, roll the clock forward and we have Calzaghe Lacy in a tough pick'em fight between two unbeaten champions. Good to see a good Super Middleweight title clash at last.

I woudl have picked Ottke until 2002 and Calzaghe from, say, mid-2003. Peak Ottke was a super-slick evasive counterpuncher, exactly the kind of fighter who Calzaghe has avoided his entire career. However, after the Mitchell fight Ottke's legs slowed and you can't fight his style without fast legs. In 2004 the top 10 super-middlweights would have beaten him, and this includes (just about ) Calzaghe.

Btw, Ottke was troubled when he had to face other counterpunchers: Mundine, also Reid.

P

pundit wrote:Hey, he was the best. Fast, slick, impossible to hit, boxed the ears off of much bigger and stronger men, fought frequently and strong competition. Sure, his last year when his legs had slowed was ugly, but until then he was great.

It will take a long time until the super-middleweight division will have a champ of a similar caliber.

P

PMSL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You could have your own show on Channel 4, here in the UK!!!!

pundit wrote:I woudl have picked Ottke until 2002 and Calzaghe from, say, mid-2003. Peak Ottke was a super-slick evasive counterpuncher, exactly the kind of fighter who Calzaghe has avoided his entire career. However, after the Mitchell fight Ottke's legs slowed and you can't fight his style without fast legs. In 2004 the top 10 super-middlweights would have beaten him, and this includes (just about ) Calzaghe.

Btw, Ottke was troubled when he had to face other counterpunchers: Mundine, also Reid.

P

calzaghe would have outworked ottke and u know it. ottke was a 30 second a round counter puncher, u need a bit more than that to outpoint calzaghe.

ottke was never particularly elusive in anyway. i just don't c a way ottke could have won the fight.

of course those ripped off judges might have helped his cause.

Wonder if it ever happened if they Ko'ed Sven that they would of found a way to DQ them!

one thing we can't argue is that ottke did pretty well for himself. turned pro very late, won a world title within a couple of years, had plenty of undemanding title defenses and beat good fighters when he had to - earning plenty of money, taking minimal risks and being good box office with his intended German audience.

things are changing in the s/m division. lacy's come over to England. Kessler's first title defense was a dangerous one in Australia. who knows what'll happen next? things are developing in a more fan friendly way for us all

pundit wrote:I woudl have picked Ottke until 2002 and Calzaghe from, say, mid-2003. Peak Ottke was a super-slick evasive counterpuncher, exactly the kind of fighter who Calzaghe has avoided his entire career. However, after the Mitchell fight Ottke's legs slowed and you can't fight his style without fast legs. In 2004 the top 10 super-middlweights would have beaten him, and this includes (just about ) Calzaghe.

Btw, Ottke was troubled when he had to face other counterpunchers: Mundine, also Reid.

P

I've got a tape of Ottke fights at home, and he doesn't look impressive in any of his fights. Amateurish style, jab jab, circle, jab jab circle. I feel he would have lost a lot of decisions away from home soil.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I've got a tape of Ottke fights at home.

Were you suffering from insomnia when you ordered that?

In fairness, Sven did very well for himself. I'm not sure he's quite the defensive genius that some make him out to be though. For me, that implies someone like Mayweather or Toney, guys who can sit in the pocket and dodge or block everything, whilst firing back. I'd argue that Ottke was just very good at staying a long way away.

Yep, I think he would have been booed out of the ring in America, he was dreadful to watch, even in his prime. Made Pernell Whittaker look like Jake LaMotta.

he was extremely cautious, emphasis on defense and singe shot counters. almost like watching paint dry unless you have remarkable patience. but he was accurate and very clever at what he did. did more circling than punching but he was diffult to outbox and had a good grasp of ring space. I know he was impossible to beat in Germany (in terms of judging and refereeing), but I did feel he beat Johnson, Mitchell and Brewer, so I have to admit he was good.

I never used to be able to sit through his fights but I can now. takes a certain mindsed

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep, I think he would have been booed out of the ring in America, he was dreadful to watch, even in his prime. Made Pernell Whittaker look like Jake LaMotta.

Please tell me that's not a shot at calling Pernell boring....Who else have you seen pull down someone's pants during a fight?

Mattyp151 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep, I think he would have been booed out of the ring in America, he was dreadful to watch, even in his prime. Made Pernell Whittaker look like Jake LaMotta.

Please tell me that's not a shot at calling Pernell boring....Who else have you seen pull down someone's pants during a fight?

didn't roger mayweather knock him over straight after?

Seem to remember he knocked down Whitaker, whose reaction was to pull Roger's shorts down with him.

Funny thing with Ottke - such a big draw in Germany, an Icon really - but it the UK or USA ( and a lot of other countries I guess ) he would've been box office poison.
That sort of style is much appreciated in Germany - Henry Maske was similar in a way.

If Johnny Nelson was German, he'd be a national hero with his own chat show by now.

viciousmaussa wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep, I think he would have been booed out of the ring in America, he was dreadful to watch, even in his prime. Made Pernell Whittaker look like Jake LaMotta.

Please tell me that's not a shot at calling Pernell boring....Who else have you seen pull down someone's pants during a fight?

didn't roger mayweather knock him over straight after?

I think boxrec has it wrong, Whitaker went down in the first, and then dominated after that. I thought he pantsed Mayweather in the 6th.

Didnt Bazooka Limon do that to Sharmba Mitchell?

The fact is that I like fighters who master the sweet science - connecting without getting hit. Thus I have a certain admiration for fighters who others consider boring - say, Lennox Lewis, Berhard Hopkins, Winky Wright, or the said Sven Ottke. If a fighter is impossible to hit AND hits his opponents at will, such Floyd Mayweather or Roy Jones at his peak, this is a number up of course, but such fighters come along only every 10 years.

In this context, an "amateurish" style is nothing negative whatsoever in my book. At the amateurs you learn how to box.

As for Ottke/Calzaghe: Calzaghe would have outworked Ottke if Ottke would have stood in front of him. Calzaghe's handspeed is second to none at 168 and above (which is why I believe Calzaghe will outwork Lacy). But Ottke wouldn't have done him this favor. Calzaghe would have had to find Ottke in the ring first, and peak Ottke had both better footspeed and better ring generalship than Calzaghe.

Syntax Error wrote:

pundit wrote:Hey, he was the best. Fast, slick, impossible to hit, boxed the ears off of much bigger and stronger men, fought frequently and strong competition. Sure, his last year when his legs had slowed was ugly, but until then he was great.

It will take a long time until the super-middleweight division will have a champ of a similar caliber.

P

PMSL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You could have your own show on Channel 4, here in the UK!!!!

As long as they pay appropriate wages I am open to many things...

pundit wrote:The fact is that I like fighters who master the sweet science - connecting without getting hit. Thus I have a certain admiration for fighters who others consider boring - say, Lennox Lewis, Berhard Hopkins, Winky Wright, or the said Sven Ottke. If a fighter is impossible to hit AND hits his opponents at will, such Floyd Mayweather or Roy Jones at his peak, this is a number up of course, but such fighters come along only every 10 years.

In this context, an "amateurish" style is nothing negative whatsoever in my book. At the amateurs you learn how to box.

As for Ottke/Calzaghe: Calzaghe would have outworked Ottke if Ottke would have stood in front of him. Calzaghe's handspeed is second to none at 168 and above (which is why I believe Calzaghe will outwork Lacy). But Ottke wouldn't have done him this favor. Calzaghe would have had to find Ottke in the ring first, and peak Ottke had both better footspeed and better ring generalship than Calzaghe.

Please do not compare bloody Sven Ottke to Lennox Lewis. Lewis knocked the shit out of lots of opponents, (Morrison, Botha, Grant, Tyson, Briggs, Ruddock, Bruno) need I go on?

Pernell Whittaker had every shot in the book, and scored a fair few knockouts too, and could stand in front of someone without getting hit, whereas Ottke just skirted the ring constantly. I think he would probably have been deducted points in an American or British ring for not doing anything at times.

Ottke never committed to his punches, even the KO of Mundine wasn't from big punches, Mundine was exhausted and went down from a shot that wouldn't have cracked a quail's egg.

Had to bump this back to the top as I think we all now know the answer as to who the MAN is now. Sven who?

Calzaghe?
Easy win for Ottke. What a question.

OttkeCalzagheUD12 wrote:Calzaghe?
Easy win for Ottke. What a question.

Can a mod run an IP scan for this and then check to see what Pringle's is?

that was calzaghe difening fight sven ottke shame it never happened. think Calzaghe next defining fight is tarver.

REAL_DEAL wrote:that was calzaghe difening fight sven ottke shame it never happened. think Calzaghe next defining fight is tarver.

i've said it before and i'll say it again.

fornicate sven ottke. he had a chance to step up to the plate in his last fight and put the thing to bed once and for all. he didn't and was therefore just a title holder who got away with it more times than he ever should have.