Question regarding the Benn-Mcclellan fight....

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Post by mattyp151 »

J wrote:ok well there you go then i guess we have to agree to disagree, yes the ref was inept but to solely blame him for G mans injuries is in my opinion naive.

but there you go Ive stated all i can on the matter..
I just want to know why a ref/judge, who only had one previous refereeing experience before that, was put into such a high profile fight?
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Post by BoxBuzz »

He was the Low Cost economical model
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Post by jedijojo »

Mattyp151 wrote:
J wrote:ok well there you go then i guess we have to agree to disagree, yes the ref was inept but to solely blame him for G mans injuries is in my opinion naive.

but there you go Ive stated all i can on the matter..
I just want to know why a ref/judge, who only had one previous refereeing experience before that, was put into such a high profile fight?
This puzzle me too.
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Post by mattyp151 »

WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

Gerald "G-Man" McClellan
Still where he was eight years ago. Only, boxing must've forgot.
By Jake Donovan

I remember sitting in the Rainbow Room at NBC on February 25, as Main Events was holding a press conference to announce that Boxing will be returning to the network for the first time in over a decade. During the entire press conference, I could barely focus, as it disturbed me as to why I felt like this day was important for reasons other than free boxing.

Then it hit me. Perhaps not as hard as the headbutt that caused a bloodclot in Gerald McClellan's brain. Nevertheless, it dawned on me that February 25 should not be cause for a celebration, but a day of reflection.

For those who did not witness perhaps one of the most brutal slugfests of all time, it was eight years ago on the aforementioned date that Gerald "The G-Man" McClellan went from the hardest hitter in the industry to near death in the manner of ten rounds of boxing.

To truly understand and appreciate the aftermath, I guess the best place to start would be at the beginning. Or at least, the pre-fight buildup.

Despite moving up in weight, and having to travel across the globe to London, Gerald McClellan entered the fight as a 4-1 favorite. This was quite a statement, considering that Gerald had never fought before at 168 lb., was fighting overseas for the first time in his seven year career, and was traveling to the hometown of the division's longest reigning champion in Nigel Benn. Known as "The Dark Destroyer", Benn had won the title twenty eight months prior, yet found himself the underdog in his own backyard for his seventh title defense. The reasons that Gerald entered as the favorite were simple.

First, even though he was only three years older, Nigel had also been in far many more wars, and was beginning to show signs of slowing down. His last fight prior to G-Man was a 12 round stinker against Juan Carlos Giminez. The fight was so dull, that there was actually more action IN THE STANDS than the two combatants offered in the ring. Nigel himself even alluded to such in apologizing for such a lackluster performance.

For all the wars Nigel had been in prior to February 25, 1995, quite the opposite was true in regards to Gerald's career. The closest thing to a war that McClellan ever engaged in was his 160 lb. title winning effort over fellow lights out bomber Julian Jackson in May, 1993. For four rounds, Gerald gave as good as he was getting. In fact, he ate one final right hand before delivering a murderous right of his own. The shot froze Julian, and an ensuing flurry nearly drove Jackson out of the ring. Jackson recovered, but another straight right ended any threat of McClellan eating any more punches that evening. A new era was born, as McClellan would confirm with three straight first round knockouts, including his "don't blink" destruction of Jackson in their May 1994 rematch in Las Vegas.

The knockout extended his streak to 14 straight wins inside the distance, cementing the claim many had made in regarding McClellan as the sport's hardest puncher. Of the 14 knockouts, ten had come in the first round, with the most impressive being the two over Jackson, which was why many favored him to return from the other side of the pond with the WBC 168 lb. belt in tow.

Fast forward to fight night, the scene of the crime, if you will. Despite fighting on the champion’s home soil, in front of a capacity crowd at the London Arena, Gerald went to work immediately. For those that questioned whether or not G-Man could carry his power 8 lb. north, they had their answer about a half of a minute into the fight. McClellan jacked Benn with a straight right that left the defending champion numb and defenseless along the ropes. Gerald sensed another first round knockout and moved in for the kill. Two shots to the head drove Benn through the ropes and nearly into the laps of the ringside photographers.

Once able to regain his senses and realize where he was – which at the moment was the wrong side of the ropes – Nigel scrambled to his feet and just barely beat referee Alfred Asaro’s count, a count that some consider to be a VERY LONG 9 ½ seconds. What appeared to be a 45 second path to a future fight with Roy Jones, Jr. would turn out to be a dead end the moment. Nigel was waved forward to continue fighting.

What went wrong? Well, there’s plenty who are responsible for what would transpire. We could start with Alfred Asaro, who as mentioned before was the referee for this contest. Or at least was supposed to be the referee. You see, to be a referee, it is required that you do some officiating, to keep the action clean and to offer an unbiased and policed presence. Asaro did none of this. Instead, he constantly pushed Gerald back whenever breaking up the two fighters. He stood in between the two fighters for far too long on every break. He stepped in and broke apart the fighters seemingly every time that Gerald would move in for the kill. He warned McClellan for infractions that weren’t even committed. If they were, it was done by “The Dark Destroyer.” Yet, any fouls committed by the champion seemingly went unnoticed. Was it a conspiracy? No, just a horrendous piece of officiating. And this was just the first round!

Asaro’s antics over the course of the rest of the fight were questionable at best. However, in order to have such a situation, it would mean that a fighter is in fact committing the unpunished infractions. Enter Nigel Benn. Long renowned as one of boxing’s bad boys, many have often interpreted Nigel’s style as “Win at all cost.” Others would just refer to it as downright “dirty.” In regards to February 25, 1995, I’d say it’s all six of one, half a dozen of the other.

The reason many became furious with how Asaro handled the action on this fateful night was because Nigel did in fact walk a fine line between ‘doing what you have to do to survive’ and ‘dirty fighting.’ Frequently throughout the contest, Nigel would hold Gerald and hit him behind his head, and would also dip below Gerald’s waist, hit on the break, just to name a few. This is not to suggest that his fight plan was limited to breaking the rules, but it was clear that Nigel was getting away with far too much than even the normal “home court advantage” should allow.

Where Asaro and Benn share the most blame is at the halfway point of round nine. It was at this point, one round after Nigel suffered another brutal beating en route to his second trip of the night to the canvas, where Benn lunged forward and missed with a wild overhand right. He did however land with a headbutt that clipped Gerald right above his left eye. Accidental perhaps, but the infraction went completely unnoticed by Asaro. McClellan, thinking he was rightfully entitled to a five minute rest period, took a knee, even though Asaro never ruled it an accidental foul. Instead of allowing Gerald to recover, he waved his hands frantically, demanding that Gerald rise up and continue fighting. Fight on he did, though it was obvious to everyone (except, of course, Asaro and then-Showtime color commentator Dr. Ferdie Pacheco), that the headbutt clearly affected him, with his eyes constantly blinking throughout the remainder of the round. For those scoring at home, this would be considered the beginning of the end.

Round ten would be remembered as every bit bizarre as it was tragic. McClellan came out with his vision and frame of thought still impaired. His power advantage clearly handicapped by his inability to clearly see, all Gerald could really do was attempt to stay outside. Benn sensed that the end was near, and went on the pursuit in search for the kill. The kill, however, was not exactly the stuff that highlight reels are filled with. The cleanest punch that Nigel landed was a long right hand that caught Gerald flush on his stellar chin. It hurt Gerald, but only to the point where he had to hold on. Benn then missed with a follow up overhand right, and again missed with a left hook – and down goes Gerald! Partially form the effects of the initial right hand, but more so because his brain was becoming more and more clouded by the seconds. All he could do was rest on a knee and watch Asaro count away. He arose at the count of eight, but really was no longer able to defend himself. Still, Nigel wasn’t able to land anything of substance, perhaps battling off his own fatigue as well as the preceding nine rounds of punishment he had absorbed. Once again in close quarters, McClellan held on to catch a breather. He was met by a right uppercut that was clean, if not particularly devastating, but nonetheless down went McClellan again. Not from the uppercut, obviously, but from the blood clot that was developing in his brain. All he could do at this point was take a knee and watch Asaro count to ten, ending the fight – and his career – with one minute and twenty two seconds remaining in the round.

At the time of the stoppage (for those who refer to it as a knockout, you are mistaken), Gerald was ahead on two of the three scorecards and even on a third. None of that mattered at that point, however. As Benn leaped into one corner, wildly celebrating perhaps the greatest upset in British boxing since Randy Turpin scored a decision over Sugar Ray Robinson some thirty plus years prior, McClellan had risen from a knee and simply walked back to his corner. He never even made it to his stool, instead slumping along the turnbuckle with his arms draped across the ropes.

On a night where many ponder who to blame, a hero had arrived in the form of the British Medical Board. To their credit, they were in the ring the moment the slugfest was stopped. Had they not reacted as quickly as they did, Gerald would be in a far worse state than he is today. After given a thorough diagnosis in the ring, McClellan was immediately rushed to the hospital, where he slipped into a coma. Again, had the ringside physicians not reacted in the aforementioned manner, he could have just as easily died that night.

It was at this moment where the effects of such a brutal slugfest were clearly visible. Even in victory, Nigel never made it back to his dressing room, collapsing as he attempted to work his way out of the ring. He too was rushed to the hospital, the same hospital as the man he had just conquered.

As Nigel would eventually be released, his career was never the same. He would score two more wins, before going zero for three in 1996 and eventually retiring from the game (actually retiring three times, after every loss in ’96). At least he was afforded the opportunity to fight on.

Gerald, on the other hand, became an afterthought. In the beginning, the boxing community was concerned. Three weeks after the fight, Roy Jones Jr. was scheduled to make the first defense of his 168 lb. title. The bout was supposed to be a prelude to a future Jones-McClellan bout, but was obviously not the case come fight night. Rather than view the matter as a fight that would never happen, Roy instead reached out to an old friend (and former amateur opponent, one that soundly defeated Roy in the National Golden Gloves competition nearly a decade before) and offered to donate 10% of his purse he was to receive that evening. HBO was so moved by Roy’s generosity that they offered to match Roy’s donation.

Shortly thereafter, a trust fund in Gerald’s name was established to help offset the growing medical costs in order to care for him. While many have reached out, the McClellan family has been overwhelmed since that tragic night, both in time and financially. You see, while many point to Gerald’s state as a barometer for the precautions necessary to take when fighting, very seldom does anyone in the fight game keep in touch with Gerald. Only through fundraisers do fighters seem to make an attempt to reach out to the G-Man. Other than that, it has all fallen in the hands of Gerald’s two sisters, Lisa and Sondra. And of course, the fans.

“The fans have been great in their response and support to Gerald,” says Lisa, who juggles working full time and going to school full time in between splitting 168 hour per week care with her older sister. ”Unfortunately, the fighters and promoters have been less than responsive in regards to Gerald’s care.”

Not all in the fight game have turned their back on Gerald. Roy Jones, “through his advisors, Stanley and Fred Levin, consistently offers help via donations and fundraisers. Emmanuel Steward (Gerald’s former trainer when he trained at Steward’s Kronk gym in Detroit) is also looking to arrange a fundraiser for Gerald.”

A very short list indeed. The only contact that fighters have made with Gerald was at the 2002 Boxing Writers Association of America Awards. Gerald was on hand for the ceremony, and was greeted with a thunderous round of applause. Otherwise, “fighters don’t choose to see Gerald, perhaps because they are scared that if they see him, reality will settle in,” offers Lisa. “They feel that by seeing him, they will become scared that the same will happen to them.”

Perhaps fighters should be constantly reminded of what can become of them without the proper safety precautions beforehand, and without the proper support afterward. Gerald himself never believed that this could happen to him. Lisa recalls that “Gerald used to walk by this statue of (fallen former British fighter) Bradley Stone in days leading up to the fight. He would stare at the statue, and shake his head saying, ‘That will never happen to me.’”

While it did not reach those extremes for Gerald, he did suffer career ending damage in the ring, a mere ten months after Stone encountered his life ending fate in the ring. Unlike Stone, McClellan has come a long way. Perhaps not long enough, but certainly better than in ’95, Lisa reveals.

“These days, Gerald can talk on the phone, and is also able to dress himself. One thing he always loved to do, and is now able to do, is TALK. He’s very talkative – and very opinionated- but most importantly, very happy. Recently, he was reintroduced to boxing by someone other than myself. Richard Slone (who has been very involved in raising money and care for the McClellan family) was the first one beside myself to sit with him and discuss boxing.”

So, while Gerald can do more for himself than he could eight years, it is not a reason that he should be forgotten, or bypassed for more recent events. He was a boxing warrior, who offered everything – almost including his own life – to please the fans. He deserves a better fate than to be an afterthought. Thanks to Brad Starks, more has been done to create a link between the fans and the McClellan family. Brad, who “last year sent in a donation, but always felt like I should be doing more,” has developed a website for the former rising star. The website will be key in keeping all updated in the developments of Gerald’s ongoing recovery, as well as all charity events to be held in his honor.

In the meantime, we can continue to help by doing what we’ve been doing for the past year, and keep contributing to the Gerald McClellan Trust Fund. For those that are unaware, or have forgotten, donations can be made to:

Gerald McClellan Trust
C/O Fifth Third Bank
PO Box 120
Freeport, IL 61032

Until a boxing union is formed to help offset medical costs, apparently the only boxing family the McClellan’s have are we, the fans. That is something we should cherish, and never forget.
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Post by Collins2000 »

Matty, you still haven't answered my question as to whether you think the headbutt was intentional. :o
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Post by mattyp151 »

Collins2000 wrote:Matty, you still haven't answered my question as to whether you think the headbutt was intentional. :o
I said it was intentional earlier, didn't I?
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Post by Collins2000 »

Mattyp151 wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:Matty, you still haven't answered my question as to whether you think the headbutt was intentional. :o
I said it was intentional earlier, didn't I?
Well first off you did then you seemed to come to your senses and back off a bit.

Even that long quote you posted didn't support your 'intentional' theory but I guess you only pick the bits out that suit you.

:o
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Post by mattyp151 »

Collins2000 wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:Matty, you still haven't answered my question as to whether you think the headbutt was intentional. :o
I said it was intentional earlier, didn't I?
Well first off you did then you seemed to come to your senses and back off a bit.

Even that long quote you posted didn't support your 'intentional' theory but I guess you only pick the bits out that suit you.

:o
Benn is regarded as a dirty fighter, and his dealings in the early rounds made that proof positive. He tried to turn the fight into a street fight, and at one point he landed a headbutt...2 + 2 = 4 in my eyes.
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Post by KOJOE90 »

silkov wrote:Utter balls!... the reason Mcclellan was injured was because he took too many hard shots that night, to blame Benn for butting is just stupid. As for the supposed 'butt' in the 9th I think Gerald was already hurt by then... as early as the 5th or 6th round he began blinking repeatedly... which is a sure sign of injury. The truth is that Gerald had a very poor defence and took some wicked shots flush to the chin, which is very possibly when the injury occured. But it is also possible that Gerald went into the fight with an unknown injury from a previous bout. Defense was never Geralds forte and when that is the case injuries are much more liable to happen... especially when you are fighting the calibre of opposition that Gerald did.
Why didn't the corner see how Gerald was blinking and pull him out?... it was obvious from about the 6th or 7th round that Gerald had some sort of problem... blaming Benn is the easy way out for some it seems...
Good post.
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Post by Collins2000 »

Mattyp151 wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote: I said it was intentional earlier, didn't I?
Well first off you did then you seemed to come to your senses and back off a bit.

Even that long quote you posted didn't support your 'intentional' theory but I guess you only pick the bits out that suit you.

:o
Benn is regarded as a dirty fighter, and his dealings in the early rounds made that proof positive. He tried to turn the fight into a street fight, and at one point he landed a headbutt...2 + 2 = 4 in my eyes.

It was an unintentional head clash in my eyes.

But each to his own...

:o
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Post by RazorKO »

I admire both Benn's and McClelan's courage and will to win in this fight but like people said, Benn got away with too much. Benn repeatedly hit the G man at the back of the head and the ref never deducted a point. After a while Benn was hitting McClelan with so many rabbit blows that McClelan just didnt bother to complain about them anymore.

Also Benn was helped tremendously in round 1, he got up in time but the ref kept breaking the two fighters up too long giving Benn a few more precious seconds to hang on.

As for the headbutt, McClelan was already hurt by then, but to me it didnt look like a headbutt, it looked like Benn's dreadlock which caught McClelan in the eye which looked extremly nasty. But it wasnt intentional as Benn threw a punch, lost his balance and his hair went into McClelan.

But the thing that gets me angry is not so much the referee, but the stupid fight doctor Ferdie Pacheco calling McClelan a 'quitter'. Hes a damn doctor! Even I could see McClelan was suffering and the way he was twitching his eyes was very disturbing. But the 'Fight doctor' couldnt even see it and he insulted this sport by saying McClelan 'quit'.
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Post by silkov »

DT wrote:
J wrote:
silkov wrote:Utter balls!... the reason Mcclellan was injured was because he took too many hard shots that night, to blame Benn for butting is just stupid. As for the supposed 'butt' in the 9th I think Gerald was already hurt by then... as early as the 5th or 6th round he began blinking repeatedly... which is a sure sign of injury. The truth is that Gerald had a very poor defence and took some wicked shots flush to the chin, which is very possibly when the injury occured. But it is also possible that Gerald went into the fight with an unknown injury from a previous bout. Defense was never Geralds forte and when that is the case injuries are much more liable to happen... especially when you are fighting the calibre of opposition that Gerald did.
Why didn't the corner see how Gerald was blinking and pull him out?... it was obvious from about the 6th or 7th round that Gerald had some sort of problem... blaming Benn is the easy way out for some it seems...
What a glove or a thumb in both eyes??.... blinking is actually a well known indication of neurological injury... Gerald also seemed to have trouble with his breathing from early on in the fight. Gerald was let down that night by the doctor, the ref and his own corner... but Benn shouldn't be blamed as he was fighting for his own survival that night.
Don't forget that Benn was severly injured himself that night...

GREAT POST SILKOV. :TU:
Gerald's defense was poor, but Benn's was fantastic. Right. Thats why he was crawling in the ring and getting hammered. And at the time Gerald was a better fighter (IMO) than Benn. Benn had a TKO loss and a draw against Eubank while Gerald had two TKO/KO wins over Jackson and a KO win over Mugabi.

Also just because he is blinking doesn't mean he is "hurt". Maybe a glove/thumb in the eye?
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Post by silkov »

Mattyp151 wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote: I said it was intentional earlier, didn't I?
Well first off you did then you seemed to come to your senses and back off a bit.

Even that long quote you posted didn't support your 'intentional' theory but I guess you only pick the bits out that suit you.

:o
Benn is regarded as a dirty fighter, and his dealings in the early rounds made that proof positive. He tried to turn the fight into a street fight, and at one point he landed a headbutt...2 + 2 = 4 in my eyes.
By whom??... Benn was not a dirty fighter by any means... its rather amusing when Americans start complaining about one of our fighters being dirty, when most of your boxers have made an art out of it!!... lets be honest here, Gerald was no angel in the ring, it could just as well be Benn suffering the injuries that Gerald has, at the end of the day itr was just bad lack and to blame it on Benn being a dirty fighter is unfair and foolish....
why not blame Geralds people for not teaching him how to defend himself?....
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Post by mattyp151 »

silkov wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:
Collins2000 wrote: Well first off you did then you seemed to come to your senses and back off a bit.

Even that long quote you posted didn't support your 'intentional' theory but I guess you only pick the bits out that suit you.

:o
Benn is regarded as a dirty fighter, and his dealings in the early rounds made that proof positive. He tried to turn the fight into a street fight, and at one point he landed a headbutt...2 + 2 = 4 in my eyes.
By whom??... Benn was not a dirty fighter by any means... its rather amusing when Americans start complaining about one of our fighters being dirty, when most of your boxers have made an art out of it!!... lets be honest here, Gerald was no angel in the ring, it could just as well be Benn suffering the injuries that Gerald has, at the end of the day itr was just bad lack and to blame it on Benn being a dirty fighter is unfair and foolish....
why not blame Geralds people for not teaching him how to defend himself?....
How can you not say Benn was a dirty fighter? He may not be considered so in England by the means of what is allowed to fly over there as legal boxing, but if that fight were to have occured in the states, Benn would've been DQed by the 5th if he ever made it out of the first. Comparing Benn's style anc calling McClellan no angel either is a joke. Yes, Gerald took a shot at Benn when Nigel was hanging in the ropes, but that's what a boxer is supposed to do to a downed opponent who isn't all the way down. Punch until you're stopped. At what point did Gerald lower himself to rabbit punching, holding and hitting, and at what point did the referee ever give Gerald the benefit of the doubt? NOT ONCE.

Like I've said, Gerald's defense was far from the greatest, but what kind of defense do you teach to cover the back of your head? Benn hit numerous rabbit punches that night that should not have been allowed to occur. You can't be serious when you say that did not have an effect on McClellan throughout the fight. It got so bad, he just stopped pleading to the ref about it and just tried to fight through it.

One other thing that pissed me off is everyone saying his gaping mouth was a sign of injury...or was it the fact he hadn't gone that far in a fight for a very long time, and was quite tired, and was trying to get as much air as possible? Watch a marathon when you get the chance...I wouldn't exactly call a guy who can run 26 miles in a tad over 2 hours braindamaged, but they seem to be running with a gaping mouth.

Honestly, I never blamed Benn, he did what he had to to win the fight. He always fought to win, no matter what. But the fact that NO ONE from England has even stepped up and said the officiating was one of the worst showings in the past 20 years is amazing. I've listened to every single reason, and some are more plausible than others, yet, to ignore the ref as the main culprit in the reason teh fight went on that way is insane.
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Post by silkov »

Mattyp151 wrote:
silkov wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote: Benn is regarded as a dirty fighter, and his dealings in the early rounds made that proof positive. He tried to turn the fight into a street fight, and at one point he landed a headbutt...2 + 2 = 4 in my eyes.
By whom??... Benn was not a dirty fighter by any means... its rather amusing when Americans start complaining about one of our fighters being dirty, when most of your boxers have made an art out of it!!... lets be honest here, Gerald was no angel in the ring, it could just as well be Benn suffering the injuries that Gerald has, at the end of the day itr was just bad lack and to blame it on Benn being a dirty fighter is unfair and foolish....
why not blame Geralds people for not teaching him how to defend himself?....
How can you not say Benn was a dirty fighter? He may not be considered so in England by the means of what is allowed to fly over there as legal boxing, but if that fight were to have occured in the states, Benn would've been DQed by the 5th if he ever made it out of the first. Comparing Benn's style anc calling McClellan no angel either is a joke. Yes, Gerald took a shot at Benn when Nigel was hanging in the ropes, but that's what a boxer is supposed to do to a downed opponent who isn't all the way down. Punch until you're stopped. At what point did Gerald lower himself to rabbit punching, holding and hitting, and at what point did the referee ever give Gerald the benefit of the doubt? NOT ONCE.

Like I've said, Gerald's defense was far from the greatest, but what kind of defense do you teach to cover the back of your head? Benn hit numerous rabbit punches that night that should not have been allowed to occur. You can't be serious when you say that did not have an effect on McClellan throughout the fight. It got so bad, he just stopped pleading to the ref about it and just tried to fight through it.

One other thing that pissed me off is everyone saying his gaping mouth was a sign of injury...or was it the fact he hadn't gone that far in a fight for a very long time, and was quite tired, and was trying to get as much air as possible? Watch a marathon when you get the chance...I wouldn't exactly call a guy who can run 26 miles in a tad over 2 hours braindamaged, but they seem to be running with a gaping mouth.

Honestly, I never blamed Benn, he did what he had to to win the fight. He always fought to win, no matter what. But the fact that NO ONE from England has even stepped up and said the officiating was one of the worst showings in the past 20 years is amazing. I've listened to every single reason, and some are more plausible than others, yet, to ignore the ref as the main culprit in the reason teh fight went on that way is insane.
From what I've seen fouls such as headbutts are seen much more often in American rings....
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Post by mattyp151 »

Headbutts yes, but those happen twice and it's over. How many times did Benn hit McClellan on the back of the head? How many fights in America have seen as much holding and hitting (disregard Ruiz, we hate him) as there was in Tszyu/Hatton? I've seen a highlight clip put together by an Englishman of Hatton, and even in that he managed to get Ricky holding and hitting, including numerous flush punches to Tszyu with his right arm held under Hatton's left arm.
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Post by BrocktonBlockbuster49 »

silkov wrote:Utter balls!... the reason Mcclellan was injured was because he took too many hard shots that night, to blame Benn for butting is just stupid. As for the supposed 'butt' in the 9th I think Gerald was already hurt by then... as early as the 5th or 6th round he began blinking repeatedly... which is a sure sign of injury. The truth is that Gerald had a very poor defence and took some wicked shots flush to the chin, which is very possibly when the injury occured. But it is also possible that Gerald went into the fight with an unknown injury from a previous bout. Defense was never Geralds forte and when that is the case injuries are much more liable to happen... especially when you are fighting the calibre of opposition that Gerald did.
Why didn't the corner see how Gerald was blinking and pull him out?... it was obvious from about the 6th or 7th round that Gerald had some sort of problem... blaming Benn is the easy way out for some it seems...

agreed :TU:
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Post by dr_devious »

What happened to Gerald McClellan was an utter tragedy and highlights the dangers in boxing, fighter put their lives on the line every time they enter the ring. If there is any blame to be attached its that McClellan's corner or the ref might have realised he was in serious trouble when he started blinking his eyes and then could have pulled him out of the fight. To question Nigel Benn or his tactics all these years later is sickening, it could have easily have been Nigel that was badly hurt himself. I remember from the time that Nigel was badly affected by the tragedy after the fight and he himself was never the same fighter again.
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Post by J »

Mattyp151 wrote:
silkov wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote: Benn is regarded as a dirty fighter, and his dealings in the early rounds made that proof positive. He tried to turn the fight into a street fight, and at one point he landed a headbutt...2 + 2 = 4 in my eyes.
By whom??... Benn was not a dirty fighter by any means... its rather amusing when Americans start complaining about one of our fighters being dirty, when most of your boxers have made an art out of it!!... lets be honest here, Gerald was no angel in the ring, it could just as well be Benn suffering the injuries that Gerald has, at the end of the day itr was just bad lack and to blame it on Benn being a dirty fighter is unfair and foolish....
why not blame Geralds people for not teaching him how to defend himself?....


One other thing that pissed me off is everyone saying his gaping mouth was a sign of injury...or was it the fact he hadn't gone that far in a fight for a very long time, and was quite tired, and was trying to get as much air as possible? Watch a marathon when you get the chance...I wouldn't exactly call a guy who can run 26 miles in a tad over 2 hours braindamaged, but they seem to be running with a gaping mouth.

quote]


FOR GOD SAKE MAN, READ UP WILL YOU !


ITS A WELL KNOWN FACT STATED BY MEDICAL AUTHORITIES AND EXPERTS THAT THE SYMPTOMS GERLAD WAS DISPLAYING FROM THE 7TH ROUND ON IN THAT FIGHT ARE SIGNS OF BRAIN TRAUMA OCCURING NOT FATIGUE.

not that you will pay anyu heed cos you thinky ou are right, but that will be why Gerlad was just a bit tired and ended up the way he is right?

:roll: :roll:
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Post by silkov »

J wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:
silkov wrote: By whom??... Benn was not a dirty fighter by any means... its rather amusing when Americans start complaining about one of our fighters being dirty, when most of your boxers have made an art out of it!!... lets be honest here, Gerald was no angel in the ring, it could just as well be Benn suffering the injuries that Gerald has, at the end of the day itr was just bad lack and to blame it on Benn being a dirty fighter is unfair and foolish....
why not blame Geralds people for not teaching him how to defend himself?....


One other thing that pissed me off is everyone saying his gaping mouth was a sign of injury...or was it the fact he hadn't gone that far in a fight for a very long time, and was quite tired, and was trying to get as much air as possible? Watch a marathon when you get the chance...I wouldn't exactly call a guy who can run 26 miles in a tad over 2 hours braindamaged, but they seem to be running with a gaping mouth.

quote]


FOR GOD SAKE MAN, READ UP WILL YOU !


ITS A WELL KNOWN FACT STATED BY MEDICAL AUTHORITIES AND EXPERTS THAT THE SYMPTOMS GERLAD WAS DISPLAYING FROM THE 7TH ROUND ON IN THAT FIGHT ARE SIGNS OF BRAIN TRAUMA OCCURING NOT FATIGUE.

not that you will pay anyu heed cos you thinky ou are right, but that will be why Gerlad was just a bit tired and ended up the way he is right?

:roll: :roll:
Too true, for christs sake Gerald wasn't running a marathon was he?.... the breathing problems he was displaying were a sign of brain injury... Matty, you really need to get a grip on some of the facts mate!....
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Post by mattyp151 »

Yes, he wasn't running a marathon...congrats in totally missing the point.

What type of fighter was McClellan known as? A fast and furious puncher who, the sooner the fights ended, the better. Here you are talking about him in the 7th round, after the start he had, both offensively and lack of defense, is going to wear someone out who isn't used to going that far into a fight. When was the last fight he had go into the 7th...5 years prior. So, imagine a runner (example) who's been running the 100 meter dash for 5 years straight, and then his coach askes him to do the 400...don't you think he's going to have a stamina issue after the first 200 meters? Yes, he would. He would come out the gates fast, tire, and begin to gasp for as much oxygen as he could to keep himself in the race. The fact you guys sit there and claim head trauma is the only reason for that, when it's clearly not, is fornicating insane.

Seriously, I'm not taking the win away from Benn, and you guys seem to be defending him merely on the fact he was an English fighter. I have not seen 1 person from England come out and say the ref fucked up, when he clearly did. If it happened the other way around, I'd be sitting here same the samething, defending Benn instead. The ref took the fight away from McClellan, and Gerald ultimately paid the price for it.
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Post by Lenny »

ok i'll be the first to say the ref was poor, he did pull Gerald away from Benn in the first for no reason and I don't think having an inexperienced ref who couldn't speak English for what was always going to be a frantic fight was a good idea.

But i'll also add my voice to those saying Benn cannot be blamed in the slightest for McClellan's condition and we shouldn't be trying to take anything away from what is one of the gustiest performances ever in a ring
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Post by mattyp151 »

Lenny Albert wrote:ok i'll be the first to say the ref was poor, he did pull Gerald away from Benn in the first for no reason and I don't think having an inexperienced ref who couldn't speak English for what was always going to be a frantic fight was a good idea.

But i'll also add my voice to those saying Benn cannot be blamed in the slightest for McClellan's condition and we shouldn't be trying to take anything away from what is one of the gustiest performances ever in a ring
Thank you. I'm not taking anything away from Benn. He fought how he knew to win the fight, and if the ref isn't gonna stop him, you can't blame him. If the ref would've let Tyson bite Holyfield's ear off 4 times, I'm sure Tyson would've tried it a fifth. However, the ref let way too much go and McClellan is paying for it. That is what I've been trying to say, and everyone else seems hellbent on other reasons why McClellan is the way he is today.
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Post by J »

i give up, ive even criticised the refs ineptitude on here .

but ive also given you a list of other factors that had to do with it, which you dismiss and still blame the ref..

fact of the matter is its given medical opinion that Mclellean was suffering brain trauma due to the distress signals he was displaying (gaping mouth / blinking).

these are medical experts opinions not mine.

but you obviously know better.

your just too stubborn to give in.

so there you go, you won, well done

its all the refs fault he put gerlad in a coma took his sight and his left him in a wheelchair.
why not go eye for an eye hey find out where he lives. :roll:

you are right , im wrong, the 20 othger poeple who have asimialr opinion that have posted here are wrong, the doctors are wrong, and most of all allthe folk that have been campaigning for safer medical restictions since are wasting their time cos it was the ref all along. :roll:

either way this don't help gerald does it.

Look ive got nothing against you Matt but i think your being an arse on this subject mate you cant just blame one person the ref had his part to play as did other factors as previously highlighted.

inm not replying again cos im wasting my breath it seems.

yuo believe what you want mate i prefer to go with facts.
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Post by silkov »

Mattyp151 wrote:
Lenny Albert wrote:ok i'll be the first to say the ref was poor, he did pull Gerald away from Benn in the first for no reason and I don't think having an inexperienced ref who couldn't speak English for what was always going to be a frantic fight was a good idea.

But i'll also add my voice to those saying Benn cannot be blamed in the slightest for McClellan's condition and we shouldn't be trying to take anything away from what is one of the gustiest performances ever in a ring
Thank you. I'm not taking anything away from Benn. He fought how he knew to win the fight, and if the ref isn't gonna stop him, you can't blame him. If the ref would've let Tyson bite Holyfield's ear off 4 times, I'm sure Tyson would've tried it a fifth. However, the ref let way too much go and McClellan is paying for it. That is what I've been trying to say, and everyone else seems hellbent on other reasons why McClellan is the way he is today.
You obviously don't read the posts too well as I said days ago that the ref was poor... but you seem determined to blame Geralds injury on Benn's supposed fouls when there were fouls on both sides and the ref was too lenient to both fighters regarding holding and hitting... but at the same time when you get fights like that where both fighters are hurt you will always get things like holding and hitting etc... that is boxing and you certainly see plenty of it in American rings but you only hear complaints about it normally when it happens in British rings to an American fighter...
If you want to see a fighter mercilessly fouled by an opponent when he is already nearly defenceless I suggest you watch Marcinao vs Don Cockell... I don't see many Americans complaining about that fight... and Cockell never recovered from the scandalous abuse he suffered in that fight where Marcinao would have been disqualified had he been fighting anywhere else!!.....
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