Interesting Article from '03 (Marciano Overrated?)

BrocktonBlockbuster49
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4900
Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32

Post by BrocktonBlockbuster49 »

You certainly count Satterfield's win over Cleveland Williams as a good win?
it counts as a good win. williams was 31-1 at the time . however it doesnt count as much as beating a prime cleveland williams.


who do u take prime for prime williams vs satterfield


And Satterfield hit harder than Weaver, Coezee, Page etc? Umm no. Satterfield power is a myth

:roll:


now we will defintley have to disagree with that. satterfield was one of the hardest hitters of all time.



i will go dig up a cyberboxingzone satterfield article for you to read





I didn't say the alpha champs only had a punchers chance. They would dominate Johnson, and ko him.

you must be joking right?


if harold johnson can beat eddie machen, whos better than most of the alpha champs, how the well will johnson be dominated by the alpha champs?



Johnson schooled Clarence Henry, who you think was a hard hitting heavyweight? Well, first of all Johnson won a Split Decison, thats not not schooling someone. Seconly, Henry was a very small heavyweight, not much bigger than Johnson. He wasn't a big puncher. He only had 19 kos in his whole career, only two over anyone noteworthy. who were the 2, Baker and Satterfield.

that because one judge was off mark, it happens.


henry scored 19 KO out of 34 wins. henry was a very skilled underated heavyweight who could wack with both hands


u forgot he knocked out irish bob murphy





You say skill beats size? Sometimes. It matters how how big of a difference the size is and how big a difference the skill level is. The alpha champs weren't the best champs but they all had decent skills, and were much bigger. Johnson wasn't that hard of a puncher for a lightheavy, they would walk through his punches

johnson had enough power, besides he was far too skilled and smart for the a lot of the alpha champs. johnson was extremley difficult to hit
BrocktonBlockbuster49
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4900
Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32

Post by BrocktonBlockbuster49 »

good points decagon





alp,


you cant critisize valdes and baker and say they werent good until u see WITH YOUR OWN TWO EYES how good they are. there is film of them both, order it and make up ur own opinion on valdes and baker. and be open minded before you watch them.

they were both # 1 rated contenders at one point in there careers, yet u comare them to a journeyman like jesse fergusson. i suggest you watch baker and valdes before you start putting them both down at the level of fergusson
BrocktonBlockbuster49
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4900
Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32

Post by BrocktonBlockbuster49 »

if i can i will try to upload a valdes fight.
Jaclem
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 2492
Joined: 27 Jul 2002, 01:03

Post by Jaclem »

......this one has gone on long enough and is repetitious. therefore i am calling it to a halt.

thank you for complying. :TU:
BrocktonBlockbuster49
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4900
Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32

Post by BrocktonBlockbuster49 »

Jaclem wrote:......this one has gone on long enough and is repetitious. therefore i am calling it to a halt.

thank you for complying. :TU:
jaclem,

u were around during the 50s heavyweight scene.

what are your thoughts on bob baker, nino valdes, bob satterfield.
Ambling Alp
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3627
Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31

Post by Ambling Alp »

Well, at the risk of irking Jaclem, I am going to answer the last comments.

Who would I pick Williams vs Satterfield, prime vs prime? I would pick Williams.
There is an article that said that Satterfield was a big puncher? So what. That's one person opinion.
I'm not kidding aboput the Alpha champs of the 1980's beating Harold Johnson. He had enough power? Johnson wasn't even that hard of a puncher for a lightheavyweight.

Decagon's comment about Ali losing to Spinks, Leonard losing to Camacho, Robinson losing to Tiger Jones is interesting. It actually further proves my point that I have been trying to get across to you.

You can't just watch a guy a small amount of times and assume thatyou know how good he was. You have to look at his record.
If you only saw Ali against Spinks, you wouldn't think he was that good. Same with Leonard vs Camacho, Robinson vs Jones.
However if you do a little research, you will realize that Ali, Robinson and Leonard were way over the hill. Then you would look at the rest of their record and see that they were great fighters.

You have to see a fight fight many times against a variety of styles to have an accurrate picture of how good he was.
Unfortunately, most guys like Baker Valdes, Satterfield, etc we have there are only a handful of their fights available.
It wouldn't make much an impression on me if I saw one of those guys score what you might think was a great ko or win.
I know they had fights that they didn't look good in.

You could make almost anyone look good by show a couple of their fights. If for example, you only saw Tua against Ruiz, you would think Tua was awesome.
It sort of like if you watched a baseball pitcher throw a shutout in the one time you saw him pitch, and then see at the end of the year that his ERA was over 5.00. Would you still think he was a great pitcher? No, of course not.
Same if you saw a pitcher get bombed the one time you saw him but he ended the year with an ERA under 3.00. You would probably think that you happen to see him on an off day.

I can't criticize Baker and Valdes because I haven't seen them? With that logic, you can't criticize any fighter that you haven't seen fight from the 1880's to the 1920's or so when film starting getting better. So if a guy had a mediocre record in those years, he can't be criticized?

What about some modern day fighter (who you have never seen fight)with an unimpressive record who has lost to guys that you have seen and aren't impressed with. I'll bet you you think much of the guy even if you never saw him fight.
No, the records aren't perfect by any means. You do have to take into account how old the fighters were, was their a bad decision etc. However, you can usually get a fair idea of how good a guy is by thoroughly going over his record.
And I don't mean to totally disregard watching tape. You certainly can learn some things about fighters doing that. You just have to watch a guy fight a lot of fights against a variety of style before rushing to judgement about them.
Post Reply