BoxRec

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Manny Pacquaio has the best resume recently of anyone out there. Marquez, Barrera, Morales twice in pretty close order it some record, and looks to face Larios, Morales and Barrera again.

Why should he need to keep fighting Morales again though?

Can understand fighting Barrera being the champ and all and some saying it was a bad night for Barrera but Morales looks out of it making such low weight all those years.

morales had a rematch clause.

still think that broken nose played a part in morales struggling so badly. maybe i'm clutching at straws and i'm wrong, but u never know until they get it on again.

Rematch clause or not America's world scene is just feeding us washed up/nearly type fighters and hyping them up as big fights.

Was Boxing Month;y Article in the March issue that made a good point.

Max Molyneux wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote: Why should he need to keep fighting Morales again though?

Can understand fighting Barrera being the champ and all and some saying it was a bad night for Barrera but Morales looks out of it making such low weight all those years.

morales had a rematch clause.

still think that broken nose played a part in morales struggling so badly. maybe i'm clutching at straws and i'm wrong, but u never know until they get it on again.

Rematch clause or not America's world scene is just feeding us washed up/nearly type fighters and hyping them up as big fights.

Was Boxing Month;y Article in the March issue that made a good point.

And England gives us Danny Williams and Matt Skelton, and they failed to mention that shitshow...should I even bring up the overly hyped Harrison/Williams matchup that was so conveniently left out. Trust me, there is a lot more shitty boxing out there besides some of the crap that happens in the US.

there isn't really a massive fight for Calzaghe. if he wants to appeal to an American market, the top men in America, Tarver and Johnson, don't really have big followings. 168 and 175 are the 'average guy' divisions. for a really big fight you need a power punching American to put on his 'evil' face, ala McClellan and Lacy

i wouldn't mind seeing a fight with beyer. MB might be vulnerable but he can be a fine boxer. Certainly boxed well vs Green II, Sanavia II and Sheika. Also, he was champ on and off when JC was younger.

You know, I wish damn well that Beyer-Ottke happened

viciousmaussa wrote:there isn't really a massive fight for Calzaghe. if he wants to appeal to an American market, the top men in America, Tarver and Johnson, don't really have big followings. 168 and 175 are the 'average guy' divisions. for a really big fight you need a power punching American to put on his 'evil' face, ala McClellan and Lacy

i wouldn't mind seeing a fight with beyer. MB might be vulnerable but he can be a fine boxer. Certainly boxed well vs Green II, Sanavia II and Sheika. Also, he was champ on and off when JC was younger.

You know, I wish damn well that Beyer-Ottke happened

As long as the fight is in the UK, Warren should make decent money off any credible opponent. I'm sure Kessler could be sold quite well, if Warren only wanted.

jeej wrote:

pundit wrote:If you want to prove you are one of the best this is the ONLY fight for you out there - and you know it.

P

Shut...the...fook...up!

Axe wrote:

jeej wrote:

pundit wrote:If you want to prove you are one of the best this is the ONLY fight for you out there - and you know it.

P

Shut...the...fook...up!

Pundit - I'll ignore the insults in one of your last posts. I've got a first class degree from Cambridge University so I am pretty comfortable about my intellect.

Your analysis is flawed in comparing Kessler to some of the nobodies Calzaghe fought in the last 3 years pre-Lacey and making the point that if he fought these fighters, then why can't he fight Kessler.

Nobody has been defending Calzaghe's choice of opponent on this forum pre-Lacey - it was bloody awful, but by beating him, Calzaghe has raised up a level in the boxing world: both in the P4P rankings and marketability. You may belittle his win against Lacey, but you are in a minority there, like it or not, Showtime see him as one of their prized assets.

Therefore, he needs to fight someone with a name recognisable to Showtime, ITV and its paying public. Kessler is so off the radar there. At best, you can say Kessler has the potential to be a top fighter: I've seem him on DVD 10 plus times and ringside once, I personally don't think he would stand a chance against Calzaghe (I see a ramrod jab but little else: Calzaghe slips it all night and counterpunches his way to a wide points decision), but my personal opinion is irrelevant to whether the fight should be made. Kessler is an inexperienced champion (and please don't retort with his age or or fight record, I know both), in that he has not stepped up his level of opposition. He will also want paying a damn sight more than Tocker Pudwill, Evans Ashira etc but doesn't have the standing in the boxing economic world to justify that.

If Showtime want the fight to happen, bring him over to the US, showcase him as chief undercard to a decent main event.

All this is the reason why Calzaghe is ignoring Kessler at the moment. Other than boxing nuts on a few internet forums, there is no real call to fight him and the numbers don't add up. That is why the fight probably won't be made, rather than using trite comments such as "Calzaghe is ducking him".

pundit wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Whilst I think Joe could sell a Kessler fight to the public, nobody really knows who he is. The problem is that Joe probably wants either an easy fight for a big payday, or a more risky fight for a massive payday.

Kessler doesn't fit into either cateogory. He's good enough to be a risk, but not well known enough to make for a fight which was any bigger than a standard defence for Calzaghe, or at least not enough more for Calzaghe to take a risk.

For me, fights against Woods and Johnson are still risky propositions, moreso Johnson who I think has a good enough inside game to take the fight to Calzaghe, and either would be a better sell for a fight at home.

I would like to see the Kessler fight made, but understand why it will probably never happen.

It's the same reason that Mayweather has no interest in Margarito, and fought instead against Gatti. It's why a lot of fighters never unify the titles, but prefer to weight hop.

The Risk-return ratio isn't right; and risk-return is what risk-adverse F.rank Warren has in mind. This is what I've been saying all along.

With one point I disagree though: Kessler would of course be significantly bigger than the "standard Calzaghe defense" against folks like Ashira, Jimenez, Mgr Mgrk...., McIntyre, Pudwill, Thornberry, Salem, Ferreyra, or Sobot. Quality-wise this would be Calzaghe's best fight ever. And as regards marketability, only a few fights at light-heavyweight may have a bigger pull -- Woods, Tarver, Johnson, Jones -- and perhaps Beyer at s-m. But certainly not Otis Grant, which may be his next opponent according to rumour.

After all, a bout against Kessler would still be a unification fight for a relatively highly regarded belt. And Calzaghe hasn't been in too many of these, has he?

P

You have to take into consideration that Calzaghe has only a few fights left in him. His hands and wrists are very brittle at this stage of his career, and he could easily be sidelined by injury again.

Calzaghe wants to take a relatively easy fight, and then build toward a LH showdown in my opinion.

The main thing for Calzaghe is that he fights again SOON to capitalise on his newfound fame.

I spoke to a Welsh boxing fan in the boozer the other day, and he said that Calzaghe has never been immensely popular in Wales, but that since the win against Lacy, everyone is talking about him as a welsh sporting icon.

I think if Calzaghe leaves it too long before his next fight, that could well fade.

A fight with Grant should provide a showcase for a big performance, and then they can build a megafight that can fill a stadium.

Kessler needs some exposure to make himself enough of a draw for Calzaghe to think about fighting him. I'm not saying that is either right or wrong, it's just the reality of the situation.

the s/m division is not weak at all. Kessler and Beyer are very skilled. Lacy and Green are good sluggers. Mundine is a cute boxer, if erratic. There's young guys coming up like Bute and Andrade who are promising. Old vets like Grant are capable. And Calzaghe still has great fitness, fluidity and speed

How many times does it need saying that Calzaghe calling out Toney was a joke at the expense of an obese Toney's poor conditioning after Toney should really have lost to Rahman? As for Jones, it's not much different from Lewis wanting to fight Tyson. But Jones never took it seriously if he thinks he can still get $5m a fight

What appears a weak division though, could actually be very promising if the fighters coming through get the fights needed to showcase them. There's quite a lot of young fighters in the division now, but they aren't well known yet.

Fair points, there isn't really a superfight out there for Joe it's true, very hard to see where he could make one. Calzaghe v Woods in Wales would be massive I think, but it's not a superfight in world terms. As you say Tarver is as dull as dishwater, Jones is shot to pieces, Toney is too far up the weights, Johnson is about the best in terms of an exciting fight, but there just aren't any really exciting stars between super middle and light heavy.

The biggest fight would probably be if Taylor moved up, but he's got to get by Winky first and even then probably wouldn't be allowed to move up by his backers yet.

It's a tricky one for Calzaghe, but in a way this highlights where fighting Kessler in the long term in terms of how he is remembered, might make sense. If there are no superfights, then why not clean out your division?

The more you talk about it, the more you can see how Joe's last few fights are a tricky proposition.

Yep, I think Kessler's people are going to want top dollar to put him in with Joe, and are going to fight tooth and nail for it if it means Kessler coming to Wales.

Joe will look at it and think 'Why am I giving this tosser a big payday?' and the fight won't happen.

Joe deserves a bigger payday this time as apparently he took less to fight Lacy.


Joe would probably do well at Light heavyweight as well and it's not like he's that small as he says he walks around with 14 stone!

Terence it would be hard stop someone with one hand Ashira was nearly out until his hand went.

Beyer's terrible! Joe would stop him and hand him a bad beating like he did with Lacy although maybe not as bad. Not supirsed how Sauerland said they wanted to stage it though!

Mattyp151 wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote: morales had a rematch clause.

still think that broken nose played a part in morales struggling so badly. maybe i'm clutching at straws and i'm wrong, but u never know until they get it on again.

Rematch clause or not America's world scene is just feeding us washed up/nearly type fighters and hyping them up as big fights.

Was Boxing Month;y Article in the March issue that made a good point.

And England gives us Danny Williams and Matt Skelton, and they failed to mention that shitshow...should I even bring up the overly hyped Harrison/Williams matchup that was so conveniently left out. Trust me, there is a lot more shitty boxing out there besides some of the crap that happens in the US.

Danny and Skelton wasn't a battle of the washed up elite like Vargas and Mosley though. Hell even Tarver's able to fool people into fighting Roy Jones 3 times or even Hopkins!

James I think it's too premature for Kessler to be demanding too much money though as he isn't that big a name yet. Maybe he should do what Joe did and take less pay for glory.

Max Molyneux wrote:Joe deserves a bigger payday this time as apparently he took less to fight Lacy.


Joe would probably do well at Light heavyweight as well and it's not like he's that small as he says he walks around with 14 stone!

Terence it would be hard stop someone with one hand Ashira was nearly out until his hand went.

Beyer's terrible! Joe would stop him and hand him a bad beating like he did with Lacy although maybe not as bad. Not supirsed how Sauerland said they wanted to stage it though!

Joe looks like a pretty slender built chap to me, he's not particularly muscular, nor is he thickset. If he is walking around at 14 stone, he must be carrying fat, because I am 6'3" and walking around at 14 Stone 2, with about 7-10 lbs spare flesh, and I'm not exactly skinny either.

To be fair to Warren, he did do a good job with Hamed, turning him into an international commodity that Showtime were absolutely creaming themselves over.

Who was promoting Benn when he fought McClellan, Barklay and DeWitt? That's an open question as I cannot remember.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Joe deserves a bigger payday this time as apparently he took less to fight Lacy.


Joe would probably do well at Light heavyweight as well and it's not like he's that small as he says he walks around with 14 stone!

Terence it would be hard stop someone with one hand Ashira was nearly out until his hand went.

Beyer's terrible! Joe would stop him and hand him a bad beating like he did with Lacy although maybe not as bad. Not supirsed how Sauerland said they wanted to stage it though!

Joe looks like a pretty slender built chap to me, he's not particularly muscular, nor is he thickset. If he is walking around at 14 stone, he must be carrying fat, because I am 6'3" and walking around at 14 Stone 2, with about 7-10 lbs spare flesh, and I'm not exactly skinny either.

He looks tall next to most Supermiddleweights though and looked naturally bigger than Lacy.

He looks like he does what most fighters are doing and thats the dehydration thing they do at weighs ins so surely it's not that much fat.

Lacy is short though and very stocky, he looked huge come fight night. Calzaghe has a lean and not very muscular build, which looks quite natural, maybe he is very heavy boned, some people's bones are much denser than others.

Oh yeah Kessler was ringside too for Joes superbeating of Lacy.

He's was ringside yet hasn't commented on it since the fight happened!

Terence wrote:Max, I stood right in front of Joe and he is no light-heavyweight, isn't he on the piss a lot? I don't see him holding those big lads off, when things get messy he can be bullied about a bit inside.

The pounds difference in Light Heavy and supermiddle isn't that much though so he could be one and suit it well.

i think it's best to stay at s/m a bit longer. i mean after 18 defenses anyone would be loath to give that up. i'm of the opinion that kessler is a very big talent and the way he keeps dealing with his foes in such a poised manner is very encouraging. Beyer, like him or not, is an elite fighter and does have some good wins.

It's not so much that these guys aren't proven, it's that the average fan either doesn't know who they are or won't be thrilled at the prospect of seeing them. Kessler, for me, has the potential to be as good as anyone ever at s/m, but obviously less appealing with his jab jab and jab some more style.

The two really big s/m names, obviously are Jones and Toney. What made them big names? Jones had that Leonard aura of incredible speed, variety etc, and Toney, despite being essentially a fine technician, hammed it up all the time (unless he meant it all) with his 'Tyson Badass' posturing. Those are the kind of things that make a fighter big. Today's fighters don't have that, but there is substance to the current s/ms

Why hasn't Kessler spoken about what he thought of the fight?

He was ringside after all.

I think the question isn't why hasn't he spoken, because of course he has talked about it. Just not to journalists, so the question is: Why hasn't any boxing journalist talked to Mikkel and among other things asked him about the Lacy-calzaghe fight??? After all Mikkel doesn't have access to his own newspaper or something, and he probably doesn't feel compelled to call a news conference to talk about Calzaghe-Lacy, but it is weird (and dumb) that no reporter has approached Mikkel and asked those questions.

I think some journalist should have done so by now. Would be interesting to hear.

Deram wrote:I think the question isn't why hasn't he spoken, because of course he has talked about it. Just not to journalists, so the question is: Why hasn't any boxing journalist talked to Mikkel and among other things asked him about the Lacy-calzaghe fight??? After all Mikkel doesn't have access to his own newspaper or something, and he probably doesn't feel compelled to call a news conference to talk about Calzaghe-Lacy, but it is weird (and dumb) that no reporter has approached Mikkel and asked those questions.

I think some journalist should have done so by now. Would be interesting to hear.

Kessler HAS spoken about it.
After Lacy-Calzaghe he was quoted saying he would definitely wanna fight Calzaghe and that he would persue Calzaghe to light-heavy if necessary.
Problem is Warren just keeps ignoring him.