BoxRec

Jaclem wrote:..the only difference between maxie and each of the klitschos and primo carnera is neither one would get up eleven times before being stopped.

buddy? no question he'd kayo vlad within a couple of rounds. vitali maybe would take him.....but that's a big maybe.

..and as far as maxie and that loss to a fighter making his pro debut....a ridiculous summation of maxie's career. baer was spotty and unpredictable.....but neither klitscho would take him into round four which is when max started to tire and stall because he didn't train.

Daft.

Well, I decided to look it up myself instead of listening to what someone else said and I can just about gurantee that Pete Ehrmann did not look through any Wisconsin commission results of the time, or even any newspapers...if he had he would have found that it was not Max Baer, but instead Buddy Baer who fought Art Oliver on Oct. 8, 1936 in which Buddy scored a first round knock out over Oliver. The fighter that Max Baer lost to was Willie Davis. Referee, Ted Jamieson declared Davis the winner in which he said that Baer only won one round, the second, in which Baer knocked Davis down.

So your claim that Baer lost to someone making his pro debut is just simply incorrect and a claim that you now need to refraiun from making any more and also before you start claiming that Davis never won a fight...remember...his record in this database is very incomplete.

That's why I do not ever take anyone's word for anything unless I am pretty sure the person knows what they are talking about...I prefer to research it for myself.

Barry... I brought that up a while ago (that Baer lost to Davis and not Oliver) but I was corrected by Mike DeLisa who said the papers got the results mixed up.

>>>I brought that up a while ago (that Baer lost to Davis and not Oliver) but I was corrected by Mike DeLisa who said the papers got the results mixed up.<<<

I'll get Mike to send me the material he has to refute the newspapers of the day.

Decagon---Maybe if you would do any actual contemporary research instead of reading articles written in the year 2005 then you might have a little credibility and people might actually listen to what you have to say instead of always proving what you yap about wrong...though I doubt it! And besides Decagon...if the newspapers of the day, which I refer to, several newspapers in fact, are wrong, which I won't believe until I see the actual proof of, then it was not you who was right...it was Ehrmann...so don't try to pretend like you did any real research other than read an article in the latest issue of Ring magazine, or was it Boxing 06?

Decagon wrote: I'll take Ring Record Book over your shoddy research any day of the week.

That shows you have absolutely no clue whatsoever

Ring Record Book, especially pre 1983, is one of the worst sources for boxing records. It's loaded with fights that have the wrong date, the wrong location or that never even happened.
What we do here at Boxrec is using contemporary reports of the fights, for inactive fighters RRB was based on hearsay more than anything else.

..i don't care if the record book or newspaper accounts show max baer losing 20 fights to guys who came up from the audience....the question was how would the baer brothers do against the klitscho boys....and max would swat them both down as if they were annoying flies. each one can punch, so each would get maxie's attention while he'd be chatting with someone at ringside....he would interupt his conversation....the referee would count ten...and off maxie would go into the bright lights of old broadway.

In my humble opinion both Baer brothers beat the K brothers easily.
I'm going on the best conditioning and peak for all four.

Max and Buddy were both better punchers than the K's. had better stamina and more heart.

The K brothers might have beaten both Spinks based on size alone.

...dee-cag....what makes you think i'm assuming baer comes in on one of his GOOD nights to kayo each of those fellows?

You cannot take the Oliver bout as a gauge of Max's ability as a fighter. From what one can fathom, the bout was little more than an exhibition and not important in terms of Max's career. Back in the 1930s, a loss was not seen as crippling like today's carefully managed boxers, as guys had so many damn fights. And why was it only scheduled for 6 rounds? Show me one newspaper account that describes this bout as being important in any matter whatsoever. I'm sure Baer clowned throughout the entire fight. Fighting with his career on the line- Schmeling, Carnera . . .he did better. Braddock is the exception but no-one gave him much of a chance and James J. did box a great fight that night. Louis he tried but was outgunned. Baer does have the string of losses after he killed Frankie Campbell in the ring but that was partly due to understandable mental distress (and Loughran, Schaeff, and Uzcudun were no bums-I want to see Vitali Klitschko try to even last 20 rounds)

BTW Tommy Farr was an excellent HW and there is no shame in losing to him.

Decagon wrote:Tommy Farr was not an excellent heavyweight. Take away the Baer win, and he's just another nondescript fighter. He was tough and had a lot of heart, but Baer shouldn't have lost to him.

Looking at Farr on film, he is fast, great jab, good combinations, amazing stamina, and a great chin. Saying he was "just another nondescript fighter" is pure ignorance.

Let me just settle this hash for everyone here and now, ancient sanskrit documents hidden inside the Tibetan book of the dead Sea scrolls, (recently uncovered and thoroughly srutinized) indicate that the Baer Brothers would issue 1940's military style "standard issue" beatings of a profound and severe nature to the K boys on most any day of the week.

However due to the prevailing "Blue Laws" of the time it would likely not take place on a Sunday.

I'm happy to have clarified this for anyone who was lost and wandering in the dark on this important matter.

Decagon wrote:Max would beat either Klitschko brother more than half of the time, probably, but both Klitschkos could easily beat him.

Based on this math I'm thinking if it was both K boys vs Max it ends up in a draw.