BoxRec

silkov wrote:

Nero3000 wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

lamottas strength caused the injury in the first place. lamotta was too strong for cerdan. lamotta woulda won the rematch

No, it was caused by an illegal throw. Yet still Cerdan goes 9 rounds with him using only his right. What if Marcel had his best weapon available(his left hook)? And If Jake was so strong why were Welterweights able to fight tooth and nail with him?

Cerdan was favored to win the rematch and would have(why do you suppose that was? Maybe cuz the betting public saw him go several rounds with Jake with only one usable arm??). He was a better fighter than Jake.

Why do you still suffer from this delusion? We've gone over this countless times yet you still cling to this same thin, pathetic thread of an argument. I have discredited your arguments with evidence and you have two techniques of dealing with it.
1. You argue in circles, citing the same discredited(and laughable) source.
2. or you scamper away when a crippling piece of evidence is thrown your way.

It really puzzles me, because when you debate about Marciano's punching power vs. Langford's you use sound arguements and cite credible sources(and as a result, although I still feel that Sam has the superior punch, I no longer consider the possibility of Rocky being a harder puncher laughable.). If you used the same technique with this one then I'm sure you would toss your notion out the window. My sources were far more numerous(and unbiased) than yours.

How do you know that your sources are better than his?... :x

He doesn't have sourCES...only a single source, written from LaMotta's hometown newspaper. Mine are from various other papers as well as the film, which refutes all of his claims.

3rd,

jake injured his left hand during the fight. it wasnt as bad as marcels shoulder, but he still injured it enough where he couldnt put full steam on the punch. [/quote]


Once again, completely disproven by the fight film. Once again studiously ignored by you.

[quote="BrocktonBlockbuster49"]first of all, lamotta wasnt a big puncher and cerdan had a great chin. thats part of the reason why lamotta did not knock out the injured cerdan. 2nd, when a fighter fights in survival mode its damm hard to knock someone out. cerdan had great defense and covered up and fought in survival mode so it was much harder for lamotta to put even an injured cerdan away and when u consider lamotts lack of power and cerdans great chin, then this should not held against jake for not finishing marcel. bottom line is jake dominated the injured cerdan like he was supposed too. quote]

Also completely disproven by the film. Cerdan was not in "survival mode". He stood right in LaMotta's face and banged with him using only one arm. If Jake was so much stronger he should have finished him with no problem. Hagler would have. Monzon would have. Robinson, too.

Steve Collins vs. Phil Collins would be a better matchup.

Nero3000 wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:first of all, lamotta wasnt a big puncher and cerdan had a great chin. thats part of the reason why lamotta did not knock out the injured cerdan. 2nd, when a fighter fights in survival mode its damm hard to knock someone out. cerdan had great defense and covered up and fought in survival mode so it was much harder for lamotta to put even an injured cerdan away and when u consider lamotts lack of power and cerdans great chin, then this should not held against jake for not finishing marcel. bottom line is jake dominated the injured cerdan like he was supposed too. quote]

Also completely disproven by the film. Cerdan was not in "survival mode". He stood right in LaMotta's face and banged with him using only one arm. If Jake was so much stronger he should have finished him with no problem. Hagler would have. Monzon would have. Robinson, too.

he beat the shit out of cerdan what more do u expect? jake was not a power puncher like a ray robinson. he still BEAT THE SHIT out of cerdan. also lamotta had a injured left hand and his left hook was his best punch.


only one round did i see cerdan sitting there trying to trade, the rest of the time i saw cerdan covering up taking a shellacking




heres another source to prove lamotta had a injured left hand


(AP)- Jake La Motta, his left hand badly puffed and his right eye lightly patched, promised today to be a fighting middleweight champion. - Washington Post june 16 1949

injuries happen in boxing, cerdan tried to be physical with lamotta and lamotta showed how how strong he was and hurt cerdan. it was lamottas strength and physical aggresiveness that caused the injury in the first place.
what happens in the rematch when cerdan clinches lamotta? lamotta will outphysical and push him around again. this will take its toll on marcel and marcel will become worn down from struggling in the clinches.

jake had the style to beat cerdan IMO, jake would have won the rematch.
jake was far more proven than cerdan against elite competition. cerdan padded his record his whole career with european stiffs. quote]

Yes, Jake proved that he could take a beating. He proved that he could lose to ring immortals like Jimmy Reeves and Cecil Hudson. He proved that Welterweights could stand toe-to-toe and slug with him and sometimes come out on top.

If welters can go toe to toe with him, why not Cerdan in a rematch?

[ he beat the shit out of cerdan what more do u expect? jake was not a power puncher like a ray robinson. he still BEAT THE SHIT out of cerdan. also lamotta had a injured left hand and his left hook was his best punch.

only one round did i see cerdan sitting there trying to trade, the rest of the time i saw cerdan covering up taking a shellacking

heres another source to prove lamotta had a injured left hand


(AP)- Jake La Motta, his left hand badly puffed and his right eye lightly patched, promised today to be a fighting middleweight champion. - Washington Post june 16 1949[/quote]

Of course it was badly puffed. He'd just been slugging away as hard as he could with it for 9 rounds. Your hand would be puffed too!

He didn't beat the shit out of Cerdan. Marcel gave him a hard time. And you didn't see him covering up taking a beating either. He is using his one un-crippled hand as best he can.

Nothing I'd like better than to show up at your door with a copy of the fight and make you watch it with me frame-by-frame and show me exactly when Jake stopped using his hand full force. In a fight like Hagler-Hearns it's easy to see when Tommy's hand is being used full force and when he is no longer able because of a break. It's clear as day. I challenge you to show me that in LaMotta/Cerdan.

You could also show me where Cerdan is not using his chopping right for any extended period of time and instead just trying to survive. It ain't there my friend.

Silly Americans

Nemesis wrote:Silly Americans

We can be. We can be pretty lovable, too.....

Nero3000 wrote:

Nemesis wrote:Silly Americans

We can be. We can be pretty lovable, too.....

ahhhhh!...