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Posted: 18 Apr 2006, 23:05
by surf-bat
theone wrote:Think about it: there was a tremendous backlash in the 1960s by blacks against guys like Louis Armstrong, who to them embodied the blacks-as-entertainers school of thought and thus made angry black dudes like Miles Davis into their heroes and spokespersons.
But thats my point. It was the passage of time, the rise of liberal America and strong independant black spokesmen like Jackie Robinson that paved the way for Ali more than anything Louis ever did.
Fair enough. It just sounded to me like you were saying that Joe Louis did nothing for the advancement of black people. In fact I'd bet he was the first black that whites embraced as a hero, especially after the second Schmeling bout.
Posted: 19 Apr 2006, 01:24
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
Your perspective is valid, but Louis did more for the image of blacks than Johnson ever did. "A credit to his race...the HUMAN race".
i agree 1000% nero!
Posted: 20 Apr 2006, 00:41
by thunderfromdownunder
pundit wrote:thunderfromdownunder wrote:Ali has far too much speed, accuracy and stamina for any heavyweight off any time, Ali IMO, is not only the best, he is the best by a LONG shot
Disagree - the 1938 Louis was as good as the 1965 Ali. I agree though that stylewise this matchup might favor Ali slightly.
Who would I root for? Ali was the more interesting personality, hence first I may fancy Ali. But in the built-up Ali would probably call Louis "Uncle Tom" - as he did with most opponents (and as he did in fact with Louis)- and from this moment on I would root for Louis. Even though he was not that enticing as a person, Louis is the black heavyweight who broke once and for all through the color line. Ali should thank Louis for that until his last breath.
styles make fights, and IMO there aint any style that could have beaten Ali in in his prime
Posted: 20 Apr 2006, 11:12
by pundit
Decagon wrote:I still think Liston had the best style to beat a prime Ali, but he didn't win a fornicating round! Maybe Marciano and his body work, or Dempsey. Holmes was just as fast as Ali, but different. I kind of like his straight punches against Ali's more looping punches, and smaller arsenal.
The first fight was pretty much even when Liston retired; and Liston definitely won the 4th and the 5th.
This said, Ali controlled the 6th and would surely have won the fight. And the mid-1960s Ali WAS awesome, exceptional, breathtaking.
There is only one fighter that could be named in the same phrase - the late 1930s/early 1940s Louis.