BoxRec

yep you can add Chavez to that list

theone wrote:The first 3 years Chavez was at Jr weltrerweight he would have beaten prime Pryor. Chavez had the better chin, better close range defense and worked the body better. Chavez's stamina was just as good as Pryors.
Chavez would have masterfully cut off the ring, forced Pryor to trade and dissected him over 11 brutal rounds.

I disagree where you say Chavez had the better chin and when you say something about him cutting off the ring.

Pryor would be the one cutting off the ring.

I disagree where you say Chavez had the better chin and when you say something about him cutting off the ring.

Pryor would be the one cutting off the ring.

No one who has ever watched these two greats in thier prime should ever dispute the fact that Chavez had the better chin.
When have you ever seen anyone have to track Chavez down in a fight? Honestly, have you ever watched Chavez fight in his prime?

Pryor would be too fast for Chavez... look at what Taylor did to Chavez... Pryor was faster and more powerful than Taylor and had a better defense when he wanted...

Pryor was no where near as fast as Taylor. No one threw as many punches in bunches as Taylor. They may not have been power shots but it was the sheer volume that had Chavez so bothered.

Pryor certainly had as much speed as Taylor and threw punches from all different angles, while Taylor was far more a stand up boxer... also Pryors power wouldnt allow Chavez to keep coming forward like he did against Taylor....

...i have retired from any more posts about pryor....well...make this my final one....and it is just to say BELIEVE BOXBUZZ...BELIEVE BOXBUZZ. For those who think he is to rough on pryor, if anything he goes a little easy.

Pryor certainly had as much speed as Taylor and threw punches from all different angles, while Taylor was far more a stand up boxer... also Pryors power wouldnt allow Chavez to keep coming forward like he did against Taylor....

Like I stated before, it was Taylor's workrate not power that troubled Chavez. Chavez was never hurt or stunned in the fight. Prime Chavez would be mre than capable of walking through Pryors best shots all night.

theone wrote:

Pryor certainly had as much speed as Taylor and threw punches from all different angles, while Taylor was far more a stand up boxer... also Pryors power wouldnt allow Chavez to keep coming forward like he did against Taylor....

Like I stated before, it was Taylor's workrate not power that troubled Chavez. Chavez was never hurt or stunned in the fight. Prime Chavez would be mre than capable of walking through Pryors best shots all night.

If he was bothered by much lighter punchers such as Randall and Taylor why would Chavez be able to walk through Pryor?... who through more punches, from more angles and with more power???

theone wrote:

I disagree where you say Chavez had the better chin and when you say something about him cutting off the ring.

Pryor would be the one cutting off the ring.

No one who has ever watched these two greats in thier prime should ever dispute the fact that Chavez had the better chin.
When have you ever seen anyone have to track Chavez down in a fight? Honestly, have you ever watched Chavez fight in his prime?

I've watched Chavez fight in his prime.

His fights are some of the first fights I've ever saw and no I haven't seen anyone have to track him down, but I haven't seen him with Pryor either.

Decagon wrote:Pryor's chin wasn't inpenetrable. I think too many people base his career on what he did against Arguello. Take the Dujuan Johnson fight, for instance. What Pryor did great was recover.

Almost all of Pryor's knockdowns were flash knockdowns.

Johnson was a tremendous puncher who could have floored anyone...

I like pryor , the workrate was incredible from this guy,and he had that intangible that great champions have, he always found a way to win. Im not talkin about the secret bottle either.

Decagon wrote:

silkov wrote:Johnson was a tremendous puncher who could have floored anyone...

Could you see Johnson flooring Chavez at 140? Or Benny Leonard? Or Henry Armstrong?

Johnson still lost didn't he... Johnson had a harder punch than Chavez who was primarily a body puncher who'd wear down his opponents... can you imagine Meldrick Taylor outboxing Pryor like he did Chavez?... I think not...

Its funny that people keep pulling out Pryors knockdowns... I seem to remember that Joe Louis was knocked down quite a few times during his prime yet this doesnt stop many rating him the best ever at his weight...

Well if your going to bring Joe Louis's name in to defend Pryor, we have lost all objectivity. My premise is that Pryor does not merit worshipping as a true all time great. But I'm far from a hater.... I place him above .600 catagory but not above about .750 on a one to 1000 scale I suppose.

But I'm not going to get any traction on this subject in a hall of Pryor Worshippers. I find Joe Louis to be in a completely different league.

Pryor being compared to Louis is a bit humorous....As useful comparisons go, maybe Patterson fits much better as an overall comparison in the "general accomplishment" catagory. IMHO. You can certainly say both of them attained championship status.

I think I'm going to take Jaclem's road less traveled here and retire my thoughts on this subject. I'm not a hater nor a worshipper, just tryin to keep it real.

can you imagine Meldrick Taylor outboxing Pryor like he did Chavez?... I think not...

Before the Chavez beating began his decline, I could imagine Taylor outboxing almost anyone.

If he was bothered by much lighter punchers such as Randall and Taylor why would Chavez be able to walk through Pryor?... who through more punches, from more angles and with more power???

Once again...it was the sheer volume and speed of Taylors punches that bothered Chavez. Not hurt him, just had him flustered. Pryor did not throw them as fast or as much as Taylor did. Chavez walked through punches from guys who hit as hard or harder than Pryor. Prime Chavez chin was one of the greatest of all time.
And finally if we are talking about the Chavez that fought Randell against prime Pryor, then yes, Im pickin Pryor to win that fight. But we werent talking about that Chavez. The first few years Chavez was at Jr welter he was still in or very close to his prime. That Chavez would have been just a little too much for the Hawk.

BoxBuzz wrote:Well if your going to bring Joe Louis's name in to defend Pryor, we have lost all objectivity. My premise is that Pryor does not merit worshipping as a true all time great. But I'm far from a hater.... I place him above .600 catagory but not above about .750 on a one to 1000 scale I suppose.

But I'm not going to get any traction on this subject in a hall of Pryor Worshippers. I find Joe Louis to be in a completely different league.

Pryor being compared to Louis is a bit humorous....As useful comparisons go, maybe Patterson fits much better as an overall comparison in the "general accomplishment" catagory. IMHO. You can certainly say both of them attained championship status.

I think I'm going to take Jaclem's road less traveled here and retire my thoughts on this subject. I'm not a hater nor a worshipper, just tryin to keep it real.

Why retire your thoughts just because some of us don't agree with you?. The fact is that the kncokdowns Pryor suffered during his career are being picked out as a reason why he is 'overrated' according to some and I am pointing out that even a outstanding fighter like Louis used to visit the floor during his prime... this is a fact so why has it no objectiveity?. I'm not saying that Pryor was the greatest ever 140 fighter or that he would have beaten the likes of Duran, Armstrong etc... but he is still an all time great and one of the top 5 140 fighters imo...
this is I feel a rather reasonable and balanced assessment of Pryor...

Silkov your probably right, there's not a lot of space between us on this, however I rate Cervantes and Loche above him. I think you give Cervantes parity and Noche a notch below.

I think I'm inclined to go with Chavez as well, but that would be very competitive. I think you see it as easy one for the Hawk. What do you think of a Pryor Taylor Matchup?

BoxBuzz wrote:Silkov your probably right, there's not a lot of space between us on this, however I rate Cervantes and Loche above him. I think you give Cervantes parity and Noche a notch below.

I think I'm inclined to go with Chavez as well, but that would be very competitive. I think you see it as easy one for the Hawk. What do you think of a Pryor Taylor Matchup?

Pryor vs Taylor would be a great fight but Pryor would be too strong for Taylor... Meldrick didn't have the power to hold Pryor off... I'd go for a Hawk win in about 10 or 11 rounds....

What do you think about Duilio LOI.... I'd put him on a par with Loche but hardly anyone ever mentions him...

Loi was fighting in my early years of being a boxing fan, notching Ortiz was not an easy feat and if you use him as the common opponent you might think that Draw Ortiz had with Loche would tell a story, but Loche was robbed in that fight, it was no draw as I recall. I came to beleive that Loche was the superior fighter but not when I was 10 I would have said Loi.

I followed boxers back then like most of my friends followed baseball players. But sadly no trading cards, or at least they were hard to come by.

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