BoxRec

Decagon wrote:Ward has no skills.

This statement just exposes the fact that you either have some kind of psychotic grudge against Micky or else you just know very little about boxing...

That nice combination he threw of first hooking to the head to bring the hands UP, then digging downstairs with that tremendous lefthook to the body is very skillful.

silkov wrote:As for him being 'marketed' ...early in his career Ward was thrown in with a lot of top fighters before he was really ready it actually took him about 15 years before he really made it, ...so much for the marketing!!...

This sums up Ward very well. He made good dough at the end of his career and I dont care what anyone says ,that guy earned his money.

silkov wrote:

Decagon wrote:Ward has no skills.

This statement just exposes the fact that you either have some kind of psychotic grudge against Micky or else you just know very little about boxing...

Ole Mick fucked his mum.

Decagon wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:

Decagon wrote:There are hundreds of fighters exactly like that in Mexico right now. If Ward had stepped up his competition, he would've been kayoed.

And those guys in Mexico would have a great fanbase as Ward did after the Augustus fight, except they haven't put themself in the position to do so. And doing it on the Mexican stage, and doing in on the World Stage are two different animals.

Micky did it, you're comparing him to guys who haven't and may never.

Exactly. The only reason he got on the world stage is because he's white.

Hah, you're an idiot.

Decagon wrote:Ward has no skills.

He's not the worst fighter to ever step in the ring, and its not an easy sport not everybody can be the best. Thats ignorant to just say he has no skills. Hes got a great left to the body as seen in round 9 of his first fight with Gatti. Offcourse he is not the most skillfull fighter but you can not say he has no skills at all.

Decagon, If you are so concerned about all these Hispanic and black fighters that get no notice than post about them! Id love to hear about those guys because I have limited knowledge of fighters not seen on TV or read in books.

Decagon wrote:I only come here to post in the Boxers of the Past section, unless I'm drunk and very bored. Usually, the better the classic section is, the worse the general section is, and Boxrec is no outlier. There are a lot of fun fighters from California and Baja right now, and 112 and 115 are stacked. There used to be a couple of featherweights and lightweights that I liked even more than Gatti and Ward. The problem for a lot of them, though, isn't their skin color. Too many of them simply don't have the "look" of a cross-over fighter. Some of them are too damn ugly.

Just search the TV listings for "boxeo," and start watching. Even if you don't remember the names, just try to have fun. One guy I used to love was Carlos Rios, from Argentina. He got up to 39-0-1 before losing in great fights with Luisito Espinoza and Cesar Soto. Then he went the distance with Floyd Mayweather. He just never had that big win. You know, Ward could have just as easily lost to Burton and Gatti as Rios could have beaten Soto and Penden. Like Ward, he took on everyone he could:

• Cesar Soto
• Luisito Espinoza
• Floyd Mayweather
• Robbie Penden
• Acelino Freitas
• Phillip N'dou
• Jorge Barrios
• Lovemore N'dou

He always got the big fights, because he always made for great fights.

Ill look this guy up and hope to see some footage.

Decagon wrote:You're the one who said that they haven't made it on the world stage because they're Mexican. I'm just interpreting your post.

Show me when I said that. Not only did I never say it, you're interpreting by adding words, trying to make your case stronger...this seems to be happening a lot on this site as of late.

Decagon wrote:I only come here to post in the Boxers of the Past section, unless I'm drunk and very bored. Usually, the better the classic section is, the worse the general section is, and Boxrec is no outlier. There are a lot of fun fighters from California and Baja right now, and 112 and 115 are stacked. There used to be a couple of featherweights and lightweights that I liked even more than Gatti and Ward. The problem for a lot of them, though, isn't their skin color. Too many of them simply don't have the "look" of a cross-over fighter. Some of them are too damn ugly.

Just search the TV listings for "boxeo," and start watching. Even if you don't remember the names, just try to have fun. One guy I used to love was Carlos Rios, from Argentina. He got up to 39-0-1 before losing in great fights with Luisito Espinoza and Cesar Soto. Then he went the distance with Floyd Mayweather. He just never had that big win. You know, Ward could have just as easily lost to Burton and Gatti as Rios could have beaten Soto and Penden. Like Ward, he took on everyone he could:

• Cesar Soto
• Luisito Espinoza
• Floyd Mayweather
• Robbie Penden
• Acelino Freitas
• Phillip N'dou
• Jorge Barrios
• Lovemore N'dou

He always got the big fights, because he always made for great fights.

That guy rolled to 39-0 off of terrible Argentinian club fighters mainly. That 0-4 guy before he fought Espinoza must've been a real test. When taking in guys from countries outside of Germany, US, the UK, and Mexico, they tend to have fought less than stellar opposition on the way up.

Yes, he went the distance with Mayweather...big deal. When did going 12 with Floyd become a gigantic surprise, he's not a heavy puncher, and doesn't jump on a sinking ship. He last 12, but almost got swept out. Look at his losses outside of Mayweather as well:

Espinoza - KOed him after taking the first 6
Soto - not a blow out, but still a UD, against a guy who lost 9 of his next 11 fights.
Peden - very green at this point still, and this fight showed it.
Freitas - KOed him in the 9th after being up quite a few rounds on everyone's card, basic blow out.
P N'dou - got him in 5
L N'dou - got him in 5

I won't comment on the Barrios fight as I am unfamiliar with how that fight went.

Look at what happened in Ward's big losses

Gatti - 2 of the best losses anyone could ever have, part of one of the greatest trilogies ever
Lejia - lost on a TD because of a headbutt on a card that was a SD at the time.
Diaz - on a 3 point decision, the same guy who went 10 with Margarito
Judah - at that time was thought to be the next big thing and the next P4P king, and Judah didn't get him off his feet
Phillips - Ward's only KO loss, but not a true KO

And a bunch of other decision losses. Rios got KOed by B-C level fighters, Ward got KOed by no one.

I don't have any dislike of Rios, but if you're gonna badger one of the biggest hearts in boxing, expect somehting in return.

Micky Ward is not a great fighter, but he is a very entertaining fighter, and he seems like a humble guy. I respect him and I think if he had been managed more carefully he might have had a better record. He had a style very similar to a Mexican brawler. Decagon is correct in saying that if he was a hispanic fighter he wouldn't have gotten the attention he did, but that's not his fault. I disagree with Decagon saying Ward had no skills, he had above average skills, he just wasn't managed as carefully as other fighters. There is no shame in calling him your favorite fighter. He has a lot more heart than plenty of fighters out there. If only he had developed his defense more.

Decagon wrote:If he'd developed his defense more, he'd still be fighting... on untelevised FSN undercards.

If only he had the defense of Caveman Lee eh!...

Decagon wrote:You actually believe that an Argentinian fighter listed by Boxrec as being 0-4 actually was 0-4? Boxrec simply isn't that accurate when it comes to South America. After that, I stopped reading your post.

Well then, mr Statistician, what is his record. Honestly, how serious am I gonna take fights that people didn't even bother to record? Could it have been some wins vs great fighters? Maybe. More than likely, was it a bunch of fights vs some shitbum fighters? I'd say so.

Decagon wrote:Blah, blah, blah. He was only fighting a few years ago, he was a clubfighter, and the only reason he made so much money was that he's white. Turn on Telefutura any week, and you'll see fighters with just as much talent and dedication as Mickey Ward. There was absolutely nothing special about him, except for the way he was marketed.

FOOL

Decagon wrote:If he'd developed his defense more, he'd still be fighting... on untelevised FSN undercards.

Probably true, but he'd have won a little more than he did. I do believe though, if Ward was not white, he wouldn't have gotten as much TV coverage as he did, and he would be an unknown journeyman. As I mentioned though, it's not his fault and he still seemed to be a humble guy even though he got the media attention he did. I think it's a little mean to pick on this guy. (If you were to make a topic on this discussion though about white fighters getting more coverage it'd be interesting. After all this is a Micky Ward topic not a 'white boxers get undeserved media coverage' topic. Although some would think, "What's the difference?" )

vagabundo55 wrote:

Decagon wrote:If he'd developed his defense more, he'd still be fighting... on untelevised FSN undercards.

Probably true, but he'd have won a little more than he did. I do believe though, if Ward was not white, he wouldn't have gotten as much TV coverage as he did, and he would be an unknown journeyman. As I mentioned though, it's not his fault and he still seemed to be a humble guy even though he got the media attention he did. I think it's a little mean to pick on this guy. (If you were to make a topic on this discussion though about white fighters getting more coverage it'd be interesting. After all this is a Micky Ward topic not a 'white boxers get undeserved media coverage' topic. Although some would think, "What's the difference?" )

Get real man, if Ward was a journeyman how come he beat Green, Burton, Neary, Gatti???... to say Ward only got where he was due to the colour of his skin is pure ignorance... he got there because of the great fights that he was in with world class fighters....
Decagon seems to think Ward was an unskilled journeyman while Caveman Lee was the second coming of Sugar ray Robinson... all opf which says everything you need to know about Decagons boxing knowledge...

silkov wrote:

vagabundo55 wrote:

Decagon wrote:If he'd developed his defense more, he'd still be fighting... on untelevised FSN undercards.

Probably true, but he'd have won a little more than he did. I do believe though, if Ward was not white, he wouldn't have gotten as much TV coverage as he did, and he would be an unknown journeyman. As I mentioned though, it's not his fault and he still seemed to be a humble guy even though he got the media attention he did. I think it's a little mean to pick on this guy. (If you were to make a topic on this discussion though about white fighters getting more coverage it'd be interesting. After all this is a Micky Ward topic not a 'white boxers get undeserved media coverage' topic. Although some would think, "What's the difference?" )

Get real man, if Ward was a journeyman how come he beat Green, Burton, Neary, Gatti???... to say Ward only got where he was due to the colour of his skin is pure ignorance... he got there because of the great fights that he was in with world class fighters....
Decagon seems to think Ward was an unskilled journeyman while Caveman Lee was the second coming of Sugar ray Robinson... all opf which says everything you need to know about Decagons boxing knowledge...

I don't know, there's plenty of Mexican fighters who would probably beat Ward but they never got anywhere because they weren't white. Ward could have possibly been more than a journeyman if he had developed his defense, but honestly, white fighters get much more media coverage. There have been plenty of other great fights that were never recognized because they didn't get TV coverage. I disagree with Decagon also about Ward being unskilled, he was definetely an above average fighter, but still, there are plenty of unknown fighters all around the world who would give Ward a run for his money, but they're not white and they will never get the coverage he did. If you don't believe me, fly down to Mexico and watch local fighters, plenty of them are good enough to beat Ward. Again, i'm not saying Ward wasn't good, i'm just saying he wasn't great. If Ward had developed his defense more I do believe he would have beaten Gatti all three times. Ward was past his prime when he met Gatti in my opinion. If Margarito was white, he'd be making much more money and getting more media coverage than he is. As I mentioned though, I don't blame Ward, it's not his fault. I don't think it's ignorance, I think it's the truth.

Neary, the same guy who hung in for 12 with Eamonn Magee...the same Magee who put England's precious Ricky Hatton down. Not to mention, Neary was undefeated and looking like a future champ at that time.

And Green almost beat Mitchell the fight before, when Sharmba was anything but the guy you see today.

Decagon wrote:I personally don't think Ward deserved the decision against Gatti, or even Burton/Augustus. Green? Neary? Come on. Who are they?

Well that just about sums up your knowledge of boxing doesn't it!... I doubt you've even seen the fights!...

vagabundo55 wrote:

silkov wrote:

vagabundo55 wrote: Probably true, but he'd have won a little more than he did. I do believe though, if Ward was not white, he wouldn't have gotten as much TV coverage as he did, and he would be an unknown journeyman. As I mentioned though, it's not his fault and he still seemed to be a humble guy even though he got the media attention he did. I think it's a little mean to pick on this guy. (If you were to make a topic on this discussion though about white fighters getting more coverage it'd be interesting. After all this is a Micky Ward topic not a 'white boxers get undeserved media coverage' topic. Although some would think, "What's the difference?" )

Get real man, if Ward was a journeyman how come he beat Green, Burton, Neary, Gatti???... to say Ward only got where he was due to the colour of his skin is pure ignorance... he got there because of the great fights that he was in with world class fighters....
Decagon seems to think Ward was an unskilled journeyman while Caveman Lee was the second coming of Sugar ray Robinson... all opf which says everything you need to know about Decagons boxing knowledge...

I don't know, there's plenty of Mexican fighters who would probably beat Ward but they never got anywhere because they weren't white. Ward could have possibly been more than a journeyman if he had developed his defense, but honestly, white fighters get much more media coverage. There have been plenty of other great fights that were never recognized because they didn't get TV coverage. I disagree with Decagon also about Ward being unskilled, he was definetely an above average fighter, but still, there are plenty of unknown fighters all around the world who would give Ward a run for his money, but they're not white and they will never get the coverage he did. If you don't believe me, fly down to Mexico and watch local fighters, plenty of them are good enough to beat Ward. Again, i'm not saying Ward wasn't good, i'm just saying he wasn't great. If Ward had developed his defense more I do believe he would have beaten Gatti all three times. Ward was past his prime when he met Gatti in my opinion. If Margarito was white, he'd be making much more money and getting more media coverage than he is. As I mentioned though, I don't blame Ward, it's not his fault. I don't think it's ignorance, I think it's the truth.

Where are these mythical Mexican fighters then?... name them!... Barrera, Morales are both Mexican I believe and it hasn't held them back!... Floyd Mayweather isn't exactly chalk white... Corrales, Castillo, Mosely, Vargas, Wright, Hopkins, Taylor!!!... are these guys all white???...

I think Ward was more than a journeyman. He was decent but not great. Good domestic fighter and a fringe contender. I think he got chances to fight for titles based on ability and how marketable he was. We all know its who you know not what you know and this is very true about boxing. We all know great fighters who never got a World Title shot and bad fighters who got World Title Shots.

But lets not bring colour into. Out of the 4 major belts at all the weights how many fighters are white? Have a look and see you'll see what I mean. At the end of the day you need to be lucky, very good or just have a very good promotor to get a World Title shot. Its not about the best guys getting a shot unfortunately.

Maybe colour does come into it, I don't know but if a promoter can make money out of a fighter I doubt very much that he cares what colour they are. It may have been a factor years ago but in this day and age I think boxing is a sport that trancends racial barriers. Its a World sport so matter what a particular countries racial polices are the governing bodies are World organisations so it doesn't matter. Its about money and money talks! If you have two fighters, one black and one white both with the same record who gets a title shot? The one who can put bums on seats and make money. Its not about colour.

Final point though. Look at how hard Hagler had it trying to get a title shot.
Why was that?

Arsenal wrote:I think Ward was more than a journeyman. He was decent but not great. Good domestic fighter and a fringe contender. I think he got chances to fight for titles based on ability and how marketable he was. We all know its who you know not what you know and this is very true about boxing. We all know great fighters who never got a World Title shot and bad fighters who got World Title Shots.

But lets not bring colour into. Out of the 4 major belts at all the weights how many fighters are white? Have a look and see you'll see what I mean. At the end of the day you need to be lucky, very good or just have a very good promotor to get a World Title shot. Its not about the best guys getting a shot unfortunately.

Maybe colour does come into it, I don't know but if a promoter can make money out of a fighter I doubt very much that he cares what colour they are. It may have been a factor years ago but in this day and age I think boxing is a sport that trancends racial barriers. Its a World sport so matter what a particular countries racial polices are the governing bodies are World organisations so it doesn't matter. Its about money and money talks! If you have two fighters, one black and one white both with the same record who gets a title shot? The one who can put bums on seats and make money. Its not about colour.

Final point though. Look at how hard Hagler had it trying to get a title shot.
Why was that?

Cuz Hags was a fornicating beast....MUAHAHAHA!

Yeah I know it was a retorical question. How are ya Matty?

Decagon wrote:

silkov wrote:

Decagon wrote:I personally don't think Ward deserved the decision against Gatti, or even Burton/Augustus. Green? Neary? Come on. Who are they?

Well that just about sums up your knowledge of boxing doesn't it!... I doubt you've even seen the fights!...

Rhetorical question. Both guys accomplished next to nothing in the 140-pound division. They weren't even in the top 10 or 15.

Either are the chumps those Mexican fighters that are "just like Ward" are fighting in Mexico. PS, Augustus is a much better fighter than anyone gives him credit for when he keeps his mind in check.

What did Caveman Lee ever do to deserve a shot at the undisputed Middleweight champion of the world ? Don't think he ever beat a top 10 contender in his career, and he get's a fight on national television. His unworthiness to be in the same ring as Marvelous Marvin was quickly proven when he lasted all of 67 seconds.