BoxRec

achybreaky wrote:Funny every time someone mentions brunos name i cant get the image of him blowing snot bubbles and crying his eyes out when he won the title.

Bruno wouldnt have to fight fraudly wouldnt leave the dressing room.

Yes, he did lost the plot rather when he won, and I remember him going on about not being an uncle tom as well, he obviously never got over those comments from Lewis, which I think were grossly unfair on Lennox's part, calling anyone an Uncle Tom is pretty shameful behaviour.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

achybreaky wrote:Funny every time someone mentions brunos name i cant get the image of him blowing snot bubbles and crying his eyes out when he won the title.

Bruno wouldnt have to fight fraudly wouldnt leave the dressing room.

Yes, he did lost the plot rather when he won, and I remember him going on about not being an uncle tom as well, he obviously never got over those comments from Lewis, which I think were grossly unfair on Lennox's part, calling anyone an Uncle Tom is pretty shameful behaviour.

I agree. But when you are dealing with guys with no class, like LL (and even Ali, whose behaviour towards Frazier was abhorrent) what can you expect.

Yes, Ali calling Frazier an uncle tom rankles to this day. Joe grew up dirt poor in the most appalling conditions, whilst Ali's family had it rather easy by comparison, Frazier had a much harder upbringing than Ali, and I think Ali was a real nasty bastard especially early in his career.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, Ali calling Frazier an uncle tom rankles to this day. Joe grew up dirt poor in the most appalling conditions, whilst Ali's family had it rather easy by comparison, Frazier had a much harder upbringing than Ali, and I think Ali was a real nasty bastard especially early in his career.

Yes, my sentiments exactly.

Joe was already a man when he was a young boy. Left Beaufort, South Carolina at 15, first to New York, then to Philly. working and feeding a family at 16.

Tough tough fighter, did it all against the odds.

A great fighter, and a great man.

MightyWarrior wrote:

knockout wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep agreed, if he had have been glass jawed, then he wouldn't have ended his fight with Tyson still on his feet. As far as I can remember Bruno was never actually knocked out, but rather rescued by the ref, and was certainly never sparked out.

How many times was he actually on the canvas???

Tyson 1 he wasnt (apart from that slip 10 seconds in)
Tyson 2 he took a knee didnt he???
Lewis No
Witherspoon no
Bonecrusher...never seen this fight, but i think he hit the deck
Jumbo ...he didnt go down did he???

someone please help me here :-)

Bruno didn't have the greatest chin ever, but it wasn't too bad looking back.
Rather than drop to the canvas, a good shot would short circuit him, causing him to lose his senses, drop his hands and stand there defenceless while the other guy clubbed him to the canvas.

But if was only really big punches that put him in trouble - nothing like a Herbie Hide style chin that's for sure.

Tyson put him over twice I think.
And 'Spoon and Crusher clubbed him to the canvas after about 20 unanswered shots ( after a big right hand stunned him )

Same with Cummings: a big right hand and Frank dropped his hands and stood rooted to the canvas. The bell rang and Lawless sprinted into the ring, grabbed him an hauled him back the corner. Frank had no idea where he was, but recovered pretty quick.

Frank v Aud????? Not even worth talking about.

Bruno's weak spot seemed to be the top/side of his head rather than his chin.

Cummings stunned him badly with a head shot & Tyson decked him with a head shot also.

He seemed to be able to take a whack on the chin, but his stamina & his inability to improvise under pressure always led to his downfall.

Syntax Error wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:

knockout wrote: How many times was he actually on the canvas???

Tyson 1 he wasnt (apart from that slip 10 seconds in)
Tyson 2 he took a knee didnt he???
Lewis No
Witherspoon no
Bonecrusher...never seen this fight, but i think he hit the deck
Jumbo ...he didnt go down did he???

someone please help me here :-)

Bruno didn't have the greatest chin ever, but it wasn't too bad looking back.
Rather than drop to the canvas, a good shot would short circuit him, causing him to lose his senses, drop his hands and stand there defenceless while the other guy clubbed him to the canvas.

But if was only really big punches that put him in trouble - nothing like a Herbie Hide style chin that's for sure.

Tyson put him over twice I think.
And 'Spoon and Crusher clubbed him to the canvas after about 20 unanswered shots ( after a big right hand stunned him )

Same with Cummings: a big right hand and Frank dropped his hands and stood rooted to the canvas. The bell rang and Lawless sprinted into the ring, grabbed him an hauled him back the corner. Frank had no idea where he was, but recovered pretty quick.

Frank v Aud????? Not even worth talking about.

Bruno's weak spot seemed to be the top/side of his head rather than his chin.

Cummings stunned him badly with a head shot & Tyson decked him with a head shot also.

He seemed to be able top take a whack on the chin, but his stamina & his inability to improvise under pressure always led to his downfall.

In short, Bruno was terrible at holding when hurt. For all his strength, he couldnt tie an opponent up.

KO Artist wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, Ali calling Frazier an uncle tom rankles to this day. Joe grew up dirt poor in the most appalling conditions, whilst Ali's family had it rather easy by comparison, Frazier had a much harder upbringing than Ali, and I think Ali was a real nasty bastard especially early in his career.

Yes, my sentiments exactly.

Joe was already a man when he was a young boy. Left Beaufort, South Carolina at 15, first to New York, then to Philly. working and feeding a family at 16.

Tough tough fighter, did it all against the odds.

A great fighter, and a great man.

I agree what you say about Frazier.

I also felt that Joe felt the uncle tom comments were highly offensive as he is a black man & Ali is mixed race. He obviously saw that as a huge affront & quite understandably.

KO Artist wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote: Bruno didn't have the greatest chin ever, but it wasn't too bad looking back.
Rather than drop to the canvas, a good shot would short circuit him, causing him to lose his senses, drop his hands and stand there defenceless while the other guy clubbed him to the canvas.

But if was only really big punches that put him in trouble - nothing like a Herbie Hide style chin that's for sure.

Tyson put him over twice I think.
And 'Spoon and Crusher clubbed him to the canvas after about 20 unanswered shots ( after a big right hand stunned him )

Same with Cummings: a big right hand and Frank dropped his hands and stood rooted to the canvas. The bell rang and Lawless sprinted into the ring, grabbed him an hauled him back the corner. Frank had no idea where he was, but recovered pretty quick.

Frank v Aud????? Not even worth talking about.

Bruno's weak spot seemed to be the top/side of his head rather than his chin.

Cummings stunned him badly with a head shot & Tyson decked him with a head shot also.

He seemed to be able top take a whack on the chin, but his stamina & his inability to improvise under pressure always led to his downfall.

In short, Bruno was terrible at holding when hurt. For all his strength, he couldnt tie an opponent up.

Very true.

Syntax Error wrote:

KO Artist wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, Ali calling Frazier an uncle tom rankles to this day. Joe grew up dirt poor in the most appalling conditions, whilst Ali's family had it rather easy by comparison, Frazier had a much harder upbringing than Ali, and I think Ali was a real nasty bastard especially early in his career.

Yes, my sentiments exactly.

Joe was already a man when he was a young boy. Left Beaufort, South Carolina at 15, first to New York, then to Philly. working and feeding a family at 16.

Tough tough fighter, did it all against the odds.

A great fighter, and a great man.

I agree what you say about Frazier.

I also felt that Joe felt the uncle tom comments were highly offensive as he is a black man & Ali is mixed race. He obviously saw that as a huge affront & quite understandably.

Yes, same goes for Foreman, Ali thought wasn't 'mixed race' as such, his mother and father would have been considered 'black' in America, they would been treated like every other black person and forced to sit on the back of the bus etc, and not allowed into white only areas. So to all intents and purposes, whilst Ali was light skinned, America treated him as a black man during segregation.

Ali was a political animal, Foreman and Frazier were not, and I think Ali despised them for their conformity. I think he forgot what a massive contribution people like Joe Louis with their enforced humility made to the perception of black people in America, Louis and Jackie Robinson though they would have still suffered segregation, but were sporting heroes across the colour barrier, as was Sugar Ray Robinson.

To frazier and Foreman though, who were both dark skinned (especially Frazier) Ali's features must have looked quite caucasian and it must have been highly offensive for him to be shouting out about blackness and how they should be acting.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

KO Artist wrote: Yes, my sentiments exactly.

Joe was already a man when he was a young boy. Left Beaufort, South Carolina at 15, first to New York, then to Philly. working and feeding a family at 16.

Tough tough fighter, did it all against the odds.

A great fighter, and a great man.

I agree what you say about Frazier.

I also felt that Joe felt the uncle tom comments were highly offensive as he is a black man & Ali is mixed race. He obviously saw that as a huge affront & quite understandably.

Yes, same goes for Foreman, Ali thought wasn't 'mixed race' as such, his mother and father would have been considered 'black' in America, they would been treated like every other black person and forced to sit on the back of the bus etc, and not allowed into white only areas. So to all intents and purposes, whilst Ali was light skinned, America treated him as a black man during segregation.

Ali was a political animal, Foreman and Frazier were not, and I think Ali despised them for their conformity. I think he forgot what a massive contribution people like Joe Louis with their enforced humility made to the perception of black people in America, Louis and Jackie Robinson though they would have still suffered segregation, but were sporting heroes across the colour barrier, as was Sugar Ray Robinson.

To frazier and Foreman though, who were both dark skinned (especially Frazier) Ali's features must have looked quite caucasian and it must have been highly offensive for him to be shouting out about blackness and how they should be acting.

I'd say Ali was a political pawn, not a political animal.

I doubt he formed many of his own views. I reckon he was brainwashed by The Nation of Islam

Whether a pawn or not, he was political insofar as he had strong opinions (his own or received) abhout things.

How many of us form our opinions from scratch?

It's easy to see how a young black sportsstar in those times would be seduced by the notion of black power and an empowered black state and black leader.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

KO Artist wrote: Yes, my sentiments exactly.

Joe was already a man when he was a young boy. Left Beaufort, South Carolina at 15, first to New York, then to Philly. working and feeding a family at 16.

Tough tough fighter, did it all against the odds.

A great fighter, and a great man.

I agree what you say about Frazier.

I also felt that Joe felt the uncle tom comments were highly offensive as he is a black man & Ali is mixed race. He obviously saw that as a huge affront & quite understandably.

Yes, same goes for Foreman, Ali thought wasn't 'mixed race' as such, his mother and father would have been considered 'black' in America, they would been treated like every other black person and forced to sit on the back of the bus etc, and not allowed into white only areas. So to all intents and purposes, whilst Ali was light skinned, America treated him as a black man during segregation.

Ali was a political animal, Foreman and Frazier were not, and I think Ali despised them for their conformity. I think he forgot what a massive contribution people like Joe Louis with their enforced humility made to the perception of black people in America, Louis and Jackie Robinson though they would have still suffered segregation, but were sporting heroes across the colour barrier, as was Sugar Ray Robinson.

To frazier and Foreman though, who were both dark skinned (especially Frazier) Ali's features must have looked quite caucasian and it must have been highly offensive for him to be shouting out about blackness and how they should be acting.

Excellent points!!!!

KO Artist wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Syntax Error wrote: I agree what you say about Frazier.

I also felt that Joe felt the uncle tom comments were highly offensive as he is a black man & Ali is mixed race. He obviously saw that as a huge affront & quite understandably.

Yes, same goes for Foreman, Ali thought wasn't 'mixed race' as such, his mother and father would have been considered 'black' in America, they would been treated like every other black person and forced to sit on the back of the bus etc, and not allowed into white only areas. So to all intents and purposes, whilst Ali was light skinned, America treated him as a black man during segregation.

Ali was a political animal, Foreman and Frazier were not, and I think Ali despised them for their conformity. I think he forgot what a massive contribution people like Joe Louis with their enforced humility made to the perception of black people in America, Louis and Jackie Robinson though they would have still suffered segregation, but were sporting heroes across the colour barrier, as was Sugar Ray Robinson.

To frazier and Foreman though, who were both dark skinned (especially Frazier) Ali's features must have looked quite caucasian and it must have been highly offensive for him to be shouting out about blackness and how they should be acting.

I'd say Ali was a political pawn, not a political animal.

I doubt he formed many of his own views. I reckon he was brainwashed by The Nation of Islam

Oh come on, a lot of the things Ali said were said tongue in cheek... perhaps he was a little bitter in the early 70s having had his title taken from him and having lost the best years of his career... can you blame him??... why was Ali the only world boxing champion to be 'drafted' into the Army?... since then Ali has apologised for many of the things he's said to Frazier, even though Frazier has said some particularly nasty things about him in the past 30 years.... Frazier hasn't been big enough to move on...

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, Ali calling Frazier an uncle tom rankles to this day. Joe grew up dirt poor in the most appalling conditions, whilst Ali's family had it rather easy by comparison, Frazier had a much harder upbringing than Ali, and I think Ali was a real nasty bastard especially early in his career.

I thought Ali called Frazier a backward n*gger and lickened him to an animal from recollection but maybe he called him an uncle tom too. I thought it was Patterson he labelled an Uncle Tom. I think in fairness to Ali he was anti-establishment and Frazier/Paterson were pro-establishment and down talked his views too, ie Paterson 'Im taking the title back to America'

Wales wrote:Nice to see you owain, you'll be glad to know since we last spoke the missus has started teaching Johnnys story to the kids... and they love it, really draws them in. Lots of cross cutting themes im told.

That's great, I'm really pleased. Thanks for letting me know.
John's official biography will be out very soon now - hopefully sometime in May.