BoxRec

Bring back the birch...and national service...thats what I say *grumble grumble*

in my day, if you tipped a bobby's hat you would get a clip round the ear, and no mistake...

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Wow what a considered response, obviously the mark of someone with an amazing knowledge of politics. You're probably the sort who thinks Margaret thatcher was the best prime minister we ever had, despite the fact she made an absolute mess of this country and ruined the lives of millions, all in the name of pushing through her ideas on the free market economy.

Is it any wonder that the more this country apes America's economic model, the more we seem to get their problems with violence and gang culture.

You don't solve any kind of social problem with knee jerk reactions, despite building more and more prisons, giving people lethal injections etc, for an affluent nation, America is still an incredibly violent society. Make of that what you will.

As it happens I have quite a considerable knowledge of politics taking in both Ireland and the UK, and am acquainted with several political "faces" of varying shades of opinion on both sides of the water.

Perhaps that allows me to do more than pump a single issue and simply deride Thatcher and blame her for all ills, as seems to be your method, judging by the several references I recall you have made to her over the months, including as I recall the one where you looked forward to celebrating her death!

As it happens I - and a lot of other people - happen to believe she was one of the UK's best Prime Ministers. But then again, there are those who think Arthur Scargill was a great Trade Union leader, so I suppose we're all entitled to our views....or is that only allowed if they fit the left-wing viewpoint?

J

National Service of some kind?

Public flogging is the answer - bring back the birch

(I'm turning into my Dad)

john2345 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Wow what a considered response, obviously the mark of someone with an amazing knowledge of politics. You're probably the sort who thinks Margaret thatcher was the best prime minister we ever had, despite the fact she made an absolute mess of this country and ruined the lives of millions, all in the name of pushing through her ideas on the free market economy.

Is it any wonder that the more this country apes America's economic model, the more we seem to get their problems with violence and gang culture.

You don't solve any kind of social problem with knee jerk reactions, despite building more and more prisons, giving people lethal injections etc, for an affluent nation, America is still an incredibly violent society. Make of that what you will.

As it happens I have quite a considerable knowledge of politics taking in both Ireland and the UK, and am acquainted with several political "faces" of varying shades of opinion on both sides of the water.

Perhaps that allows me to do more than pump a single issue and simply deride Thatcher and blame her for all ills, as seems to be your method, judging by the several references I recall you have made to her over the months, including as I recall the one where you looked forward to celebrating her death!

As it happens I - and a lot of other people - happen to believe she was one of the UK's best Prime Ministers. But then again, there are those who think Arthur Scargill was a great Trade Union leader, so I suppose we're all entitled to our views....or is that only allowed if they fit the left-wing viewpoint?

J

Yes, only if they fit with my viewpoint.

In truth there is no such thing as a perfect society, some of our problems are undoubtedly attributable to Maragaret Thatcher, whose changes in this country were brought about with an arrogant disregard for the consequences. She was a hateful woman hell bent on proving herself and quite clearly didn't give a shit about how it affected people living with her grand designs.

All politicians have their flaws, but she was a particularly malevolent influence.

Might have posted this glorious quote from that evil bastard Thatcher before. It comes from one of her former aides who was at a dinner with her shortly after the defeat of the Miners:

"I know I shouldn't gloat about the miners...but I will!"

When I found out she had been deposed in 1990, I went straight out and celebrated.

I'm more mature now but will find it hard not to, on the occasion of her death to follow Morrissey's advice and, metaphorically at least, trample the dirt down.

Yes, shows's her for what she was, a vainglorious bouffant wearing cuntok.

Happily gloating that hundreds of thousands of families all around the country were going to face grinding poverty for the next decade, all in the name of 'progress.'

I too will dance a little jig, her bastard husband has gone, and hopefully someone will pop a cap in that arrogant little shit Mark's head for his shady dealings some time soon.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I too will dance a little jig, her bastard husband has gone, and hopefully someone will pop a cap in that arrogant little shit Mark's head for his shady dealings some time soon.

Hopefully in some bizarre symbiosis, the two elements of this thread will combine and a gang of Asbos scumbags will do something worthy and get rid of Maggie and her convicted criminal of a son.

Perhaps it could be part of their 'community service.' I'm sure there are some areas of south wales that would view it as such.

As this thread has now degenerated into a level of anti-Thatcher idiocy that even Polly Toynbee would be ashamed of i'll sign off from it and leave James & Ian to have a few pints with the miners....

J

john2345 wrote:As this thread has now degenerated into a level of anti-Thatcher idiocy that even Polly Toynbee would be ashamed of i'll sign off from it and leave James & Ian to have a few pints with the miners....

J

Well, you could always try and defend your position, should you wish. Does 'anti-Thatcher' axiomatically equate to 'idiocy' in your political world, John?

If so, best continue to beat your hasty retreat.

yiddo14 wrote:Cant remember how long ago i see this particular story,but i remember reading about an illegel immigrant,driving a car,hitting and killing a little boy of about 4.The guy had no driving license,no insurance,should not of even been it the country,and if i remember correctly the guy had also been drinking.I think he served something like 9 weeks!!!!Compare that to last weeks story where gary linekers brother got 2 and half years nick for fraud(basically trying to keep his own money)

This happened in Wolverhampton as far as i am aware, the immigrant was from Zimbabwe and he ended up doing 10 weeks in Blakenhurst. Apparently his sentence was so lenient because onlookers said the boy ran out in front of him and he couldn't stop in time. A guy i know did time with this fellow and he was apparently a decent guy who was extremely remorseful and sorry etc but just relaying that information as this was a terrible crime (and lapse in the system) and he should have been looking at years.

steve689 wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:Cant remember how long ago i see this particular story,but i remember reading about an illegel immigrant,driving a car,hitting and killing a little boy of about 4.The guy had no driving license,no insurance,should not of even been it the country,and if i remember correctly the guy had also been drinking.I think he served something like 9 weeks!!!!Compare that to last weeks story where gary linekers brother got 2 and half years nick for fraud(basically trying to keep his own money)

This happened in Wolverhampton as far as i am aware, the immigrant was from Zimbabwe and he ended up doing 10 weeks in Blakenhurst. Apparently his sentence was so lenient because onlookers said the boy ran out in front of him and he couldn't stop in time. A guy i know did time with this fellow and he was apparently a decent guy who was extremely remorseful and sorry etc but just relaying that information as this was a terrible crime (and lapse in the system) and he should have been looking at years.

I work with the sister of this poor lad and just so you know her whole life has been decimated by it; the sentence just made the loss of life feel all the more meaningless.

Terrible happening and they shoulda thrown the book at the illegal driving 5hitbag.

My memories of Thatchers Britain.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/3649 ... bc_150.jpg

http://lisweb.swan.ac.uk/swcc/images/st ... llage4.jpg

http://core2.trg.org.uk/reformer/2000au ... epoor2.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/ ... _riots.jpg

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/gallery/liverpo ... riot1.jpeg

http://www.flipsideshow.com/images/Reag ... atcher.jpg

The fact that the prisons are overflowing doesn't mean that murderers and rapists etc should be getting ever lighter sentences... the fact is that prison has become far too soft imo... many who go in there have a better lifestyle than when they are out of custody... I think prison should be made much harder, especially for serious offenders, no TV SKY, snooker tables etc.... a bucket, a bare cell and 3 meals a day... a little more genuine hard time would I think persuade many to mend their ways rather than risk going back inside again, ....as the situation is now many of todays louts see prison as a nice holiday away from the day to day stresses of their street lives... poor things!... :x

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

john2345 wrote:As this thread has now degenerated into a level of anti-Thatcher idiocy that even Polly Toynbee would be ashamed of i'll sign off from it and leave James & Ian to have a few pints with the miners....

J

Well, you could always try and defend your position, should you wish. Does 'anti-Thatcher' axiomatically equate to 'idiocy' in your political world, John?

If so, best continue to beat your hasty retreat.

Well, Ian, like Thatcher I don't back away that easily!

As far as defending a position against "I'll be trampling the ground and getting p***ed when the bitch dies!" type drivel does one dignify that with a response? Does "I think I'll go out and sink a few pints when that bastard Scargill dies...!" carry any dignity, or weight....if not, then allow me to suggest that nor should that sort of sentiment (or if you like, idiocy) apply to Thatcher.

I'm not quite sure how you equate my use of the word "idiocy" (which I clearly applied to the sentiment rather than the thought) to "anything anti Thatcher"....but just to help you clearly understand my point, I would suggest that "I'll go and have a few pints when that evil bastard Scargill dies" is also idiocy, and equally crude. And frankly, equally childish and vindictive.

Now as regards all the "The bitch Thatcher did it, it was her.." rants. Where exactly would Callaghan have taken the country had he won in 1979? Into the "Summer of Discontent"...? Even further under the influence and control of the Unions? Further down the plughole into which Wilson and Heath had sunk it?

Thatcher may not have been perfect - and I don't recall saying she was 100% - but she changed the country, and not all for the bad. And gave many people the impetus to go and make something of themselves rather than rely on Big Brother State.... which Gordo would like to take us all back to.

And while that's only my opinion of course, I didn't single-handedly win her three elections on the trot!

J
J

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

ABA Boxing wrote:I think the Middle East is brutal in its ways, but sometimes a little of there punishment could be used in this country on our thugs!

People would think twice before acting the way they do if the punishment was anything like what they do in other parts of the World.
A £60 fine or a short Prison sentence is no deterent to the modern age youth!

Sure' let's ape the laws of a country where Women are in some cases beaten to death for revealing their ankles! Let's go back to the middle ages because that is what you're talking about.

The point was that our puishment is no deterent, i did not say that we need to have the stoning of young woman & cutting off of peoples hands for stealing bread.

A £60 fine or what ever it is in your local area is nothing to a modern youth, on good wages. A prison sentence is not what it used to be.

As someone said tax evasion fraud or any other money offence that might do the Goverments gold chest any harm, will see the end of daylight for you in some grubby cell. Run some child over while drunk, might get u some driving points, killing som OAP when you rob her purse for her pention might get you a 3 month stay at some holiday camp.

Quite frankly if someone stabbed my gran to death for her money, i would shed no tear to see them hang!

I think national service is a great idea, for two years!

TerribleTerry wrote:I work with the sister of this poor lad and just so you know her whole life has been decimated by it; the sentence just made the loss of life feel all the more meaningless.

Terrible happening and they shoulda thrown the book at the illegal driving 5hitbag.

Yes i can imagine it has done mate, i only mentioned a couple of those points because i felt they were relevant. I don't for a second condone the weak sentence that was imposed. I have had some first hand experience of this type of thing as when i was arrested myself, me and my mate were sent down for our part in a brawl which was started by an illegal immigrant and co with iron bars, he received a suspended sentence and was not deported. Sometimes the justice system makes you scratch your head a little but of course that said i don't want to turn this thread into a slanging match and i take full responsibility for my own actions in the whole thing but just making the point

Tony Blair is the biggets twonk to ever grace No 10 or is it no 11 - Either way, what a twat.

This country is well on it's way to wreck and ruin, and when it comes to pointing fingers, then the pointing will stop firmly at this man's door.

He's the biggest white elephant to ever grace the house of parliament, and is a master of lip service.

John,

"Well, Ian, like Thatcher I don't back away that easily!"

Well, John, I'll take that comment in the light-hearted spirit it was intended. Hopefully your intransigence won't result in loss of life and livelihood, as Maggie's did at times.

"As far as defending a position against "I'll be trampling the ground and getting p***ed when the bitch dies!" type drivel"

Love the addition of 'type drivel'. That's the type of sneaky thing I'd do. Quote me where I said this. You might notice regarding tramping the ground down, I did say 'metaphorically'.

"Now as regards all the "The bitch Thatcher did it, it was her.." rants. Where exactly would Callaghan have taken the country had he won in 1979? Into the "Summer of Discontent"...? Even further under the influence and control of the Unions?"

That is a fair point, and one overlooked by raving anti-Thatcherites. She went the other way and vindictively destroyed communities, families and, yes, militancy.[/b]

I have been on the drink wth Glenn, Ian Darke & Co a couple of times after boxing events. I have never seen a man attract so many women as McCrory - seriously, they were lining up to se him.

Ian Darke has some good patter with the ladies too!! (Allegedly - in case his sife is reading!)

Koomey

I'm an 80's guy; I remember McCrory pretty much always getting battered in Newcastle.

KO Artist wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Oh god here we go, the 'bring back the birch' brigade on rampage is on the rise again.

You cannot base jurisprudence on anecdotal one off cases. Tony Blair is not responsible for country wide social trends personally, not does he directly make the laws. Sentencing guidelines are laid down by the Home Secretary and passed on to the judiciary, who in turn hand out sentences.

Britain's prison population is at it's highest rate ever, yet violent crime is on the increase, which just goes to prove that bunging people in jail doesn't eradicate the problem.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1101

I wouldnt bung em in Jail.

I'd bung em in the thames, and let them swim for their lives. Jailing them just wasters taxpayers maoney, as does the Government who are a disgrace.

The voice of reason.

I know a guy killed by 3 scumbags last October.

How only tried to break up a fight and dies for it.

Too many scumbags and wannabee hardmen about.

Something needs to be done..

Two Shags will change this country round.

Couple of things that spring to mind:

Violent crime actually down on ten years ago, and not far off where it was 30 years ago, IIRC. How much of the current 'waves of violence' are actually different to how things were years ago, and how much is simply down to perception? Don't forget, we live in an era of unprecidented access to information, where 24hr news stations and *spit* tabloid newspapers compete for market share with ever more lurid headlines for an increasingly jaded audience. Is the world really a more violent place, or is every incident examined in minute detail by a media that has an awful lot of minutes/column inches to fill?

Ireland tends to have a less-harsh prison system than us, locks people up for less time, and uses more community punishment. They also have a lower reoffending rate. Many US states bang people up for years in conditions that resemble dog-fighting pits. I don't actually know what their reoffending rates are, but I'd bet good money they're worse than ours.

Now, I'm not saying the above reflect my actual opinions (arguing on the internet is like pissing into the wind) but it's just what popped into my head as I read this. I'd say my views are not as touchy-feely-cardy-wearing as what I've written might suggest, or as extreme as others (actually, that's a lie - I once came up with the idea of an annual Twat Cull, to keep their breeding numbers down, but that was, mostly, said in jest). I'm probably somewhere to the Left of Mussellini, and somewhere to the Right of Ghandi.

Anyway, Get Well Soon to Glenn, which is the important thing.