BoxRec

Posted: **08 May 2006, 08:44**

Ulysses wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Four years is a long time, I don't think Oscar is the same fighter he was then, and Karmazin has a better set of tools than the likes of Mayorga. I'm not saying he would neccesarily win, but I think he could give Oscar a very hard night.
Fair enough assesment, however I feel De La Hoya is closer to the fighter he once was than we all thought prior to Saturday night.
And for some to say he's been ducking Karmazin for years is borderline ludicrous!

The sad thing is you actually care.

Posted: **08 May 2006, 08:46**

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Four years is a long time, I don't think Oscar is the same fighter he was then, and Karmazin has a better set of tools than the likes of Mayorga. I'm not saying he would neccesarily win, but I think he could give Oscar a very hard night.

Not sure what Oscar has done wrong as a Light Middle to show he is slipping.... Hasn't really done much wrong and Vargas showed vs Mosley that his chin isn't that shot.

Yes, he was very poor vs Sturm and not overly great (but much better) vs Hopkins - but surely its the weight issue.

Karmazin is good no doubt, but Ouma was way overated.... Showed again on Saturday.

Posted: **08 May 2006, 12:03**

Anyone but Mosely, from Oscars point of view.

Posted: **08 May 2006, 12:36**

Nice showing from De La Hoya on Saturday. May have settled at the weight a bit more now and be carrying more pop than previously...

Certainly the blueprint for taking apart the crude Mayorga was there for all to see..... Just textbook technique from Oscar...

Posted: **08 May 2006, 13:41**

What would Mayweather gain from fighting DLH ?

DLH is looking for a dream match while Mayweather is arguably at his career peak and IMHO should be concentrating on establishing his number one status.

Fighting DLH he'd also be at a natural size disadvantage.

This fight would benefit DLH lots more than Mayweather and with maximum respect to DLH and his career I don't think he deserves this fight. He should not be considering it.

DLH should stick to some other HOF who has already achieved greatness (Hopkins again maybe) or at least fight someone his own size.

Posted: **08 May 2006, 17:55**

Matchfixer wrote:What would Mayweather gain from fighting DLH ?

DLH is looking for a dream match while Mayweather is arguably at his career peak and IMHO should be concentrating on establishing his number one status.

Fighting DLH he'd also be at a natural size disadvantage.

This fight would benefit DLH lots more than Mayweather and with maximum respect to DLH and his career I don't think he deserves this fight. He should not be considering it.

DLH should stick to some other HOF who has already achieved greatness (Hopkins again maybe) or at least fight someone his own size.

According to the majority, Mayweather would gain a hell of alot of respect for beating DLH (money aside for a moment). If you believe that fighting DLH at lightmiddle is too great a risk for Mayweather, then you have to concede that the respect would be even greater - higher risk = more respect, ala DLH-Hopkins.

DLH is arguably the best fighter in Mayweathers region of weightclass. I for one can not see a better way for PBF to cement No.1/Legend status.

Why would PBF necessarily be at a physical disadvantage? Chances are, yes he will, but it takes two to tango, Mayweather ain't dumb and he can insist on a catchweight fight. Yes, DLH is naturally bigger, but is also at a more advanced stage of his career, so physically, if you consider the balance of speed, mobility and STAMINA, well......

The fight would benefit DLH slightly more than Mayweather. As I said, P4P no.1 would be up for grabs, winner take all in that regard. A return in the event of a DLH victory would be unlikely. On the other hand, it's certainly last throw for DLH, PBF will have years ahead of him.

DLH does not deserve the fight??????

As for your last point, DLH will never beat Hopkins, but in my book, he earned respect for trying, much as Mayweather would for taking on DLH.

Posted: **09 May 2006, 02:52**

knockout wrote:Roman ( a very likeable guys) will have to have improved a lot or Oscar will have had to have lost a lot of his skills if there were to be an upset....

Karmazin and Castillejo fought in 2002 and although a close fight Roman lost the decision....12 months earlier De La Hoya had beaten on the spaniard winning every round and dropping him in the last....It was also Oscars first fight at the weight so he didnt have the strength or power he has now.....

Had Oscar gone to the body earlier like Mayweather was telling him to, he would have stopped the unexceptional Castillejo, as it was he put him down just as time ran out in the 12th!! Oscar showed vs the granite-chinned Mayorga that although he may have lost a little speed he definitely hits harder than ever!! Oscar easily beats the tough but limited Karmazin, whose claim-to-fame is a good win over an Ouma that just had trouble with 2nd-rate Rubio last Saturday night...

Posted: **09 May 2006, 04:49**

CrunchTime wrote:
knockout wrote:Roman ( a very likeable guys) will have to have improved a lot or Oscar will have had to have lost a lot of his skills if there were to be an upset....

Karmazin and Castillejo fought in 2002 and although a close fight Roman lost the decision....12 months earlier De La Hoya had beaten on the spaniard winning every round and dropping him in the last....It was also Oscars first fight at the weight so he didnt have the strength or power he has now.....
Had Oscar gone to the body earlier like Mayweather was telling him to, he would have stopped the unexceptional Castillejo, as it was he put him down just as time ran out in the 12th!! Oscar showed vs the granite-chinned Mayorga that although he may have lost a little speed he definitely hits harder than ever!! Oscar easily beats the tough but limited Karmazin, whose claim-to-fame is a good win over an Ouma that just had trouble with 2nd-rate Rubio last Saturday night...

Karmazin has only just had his breakthrough, and has come through very well. he's made a lot of improvement in three years and many ppl dislike the castillejo decision. tough but limited? he was skilled enought to dominate Ouma. limited? he totally owned him on the outside and half crippled his body with body shots.

There's no guarantee that DLH, just cos he beat a truly limited guy in Mayorga, can beat Karmazin. DLH only goes for big name guys who have looked (relatively) poor in their previous fight. Considering Karmazin's not a big name who looked great in his last fight, it won't happen - Oscar will keep his bogus title and not bother to prove he's the best in the division and sadly will probably go down as some kind of junior middle legend!

Karmazin doesn't get respect. was the same with Adamek. After he beat Briggs ppl were actually picking Ulrich to beat him. Insanity. Ppl would probably pick Ouma to beat Karmazin in a rematch, had Ouma not looked so shopworn on Sat

Karmazin has beaten former middle titlist Holmes, Ouma, and when he throttles Cory Spinks & Daniel Santos I hope ppl start to acknowledge him...but no doubt DLH would get more credit for beating reanimated versions of Vargas, Quartey or Mosley

What pisses me off about boxing in America is that all these old men fights get all the publicity. meanwhile top quality emerging fighters get put on the fornicating shelf when there's loads of great fights out there for them

Posted: **09 May 2006, 05:04**

Matchfixer wrote:What would Mayweather gain from fighting DLH ?

DLH is looking for a dream match while Mayweather is arguably at his career peak and IMHO should be concentrating on establishing his number one status.

Fighting DLH he'd also be at a natural size disadvantage.

This fight would benefit DLH lots more than Mayweather and with maximum respect to DLH and his career I don't think he deserves this fight. He should not be considering it.

DLH should stick to some other HOF who has already achieved greatness (Hopkins again maybe) or at least fight someone his own size.

What about $20 Million?

Oscar is still the biggest name in the sport, and a win over him would make a massive mark or his ledger and a fat deposit in his bank account. It's a good fight as well, but Mayweather should insist on it being at 147 or a catchweight.

Posted: **09 May 2006, 05:14**

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Matchfixer wrote:What would Mayweather gain from fighting DLH ?

DLH is looking for a dream match while Mayweather is arguably at his career peak and IMHO should be concentrating on establishing his number one status.

Fighting DLH he'd also be at a natural size disadvantage.

This fight would benefit DLH lots more than Mayweather and with maximum respect to DLH and his career I don't think he deserves this fight. He should not be considering it.

DLH should stick to some other HOF who has already achieved greatness (Hopkins again maybe) or at least fight someone his own size.
What about $20 Million?

Oscar is still the biggest name in the sport, and a win over him would make a massive mark or his ledger and a fat deposit in his bank account. It's a good fight as well, but Mayweather should insist on it being at 147 or a catchweight.

i don't think de la hoya-mayweather is so appealing. obviously if dlh is fighting someone exceptional, it's going to do well. and mayweather's fan base seems to be growing, base don his last two PPV showings. but it seems more ppl think it's gonna be the bggest non heavyweight fight in history because of a silly Oedipal soap opera subplot, ie my daddy training my opponent

could be oscar doesn't want to risk getting outboxed anyhow, at this stage he won't be able to cope as well

Posted: **09 May 2006, 07:39**

I can't imagine PBF would be doing a whole lot to get the fight on his own terms. He's well aware that DLH has enough money as it stands and does not need PBF to be his last opponent in order to generate massive interest. I think PBF would fight DLH on whatever terms he wants. He is the one who needs to be fighting on the big stage, not Oscar. DLH wants to go out with a win, so why risk this by taking on PBF? I will be very surprised if this happens but one thing Oscar has is balls. If he won't shy away from a fight at 160 lbs with Hopkins, why would he run scared of Floyd. The difference here is that he says it will be his last fight, plus the fact that old man Mayweather doesn't want to work the the corner out a man looking to KO his son (even though they don't speak). A more likely match up is Trinidad at 154lbs (if he can make it). DLH will want revenge against his first conqueror and it would probably be a better fight financially than one against Floyd.

Posted: **09 May 2006, 07:58**

Winky has burst Trinidad's bubble big time dude, don't see this as a big fight anymore, decent swan song sure, but not a grand finale by any means.

Posted: **09 May 2006, 08:02**

I know that but both these guys have huge support. This isn't a fight I'd want to happen. Financially and in terms of risk it makes most sense but I can't imagine it would be as interesting a spectacle as some of his other options.

Posted: **09 May 2006, 08:29**

viciousmaussa wrote:
CrunchTime wrote:
knockout wrote:Roman ( a very likeable guys) will have to have improved a lot or Oscar will have had to have lost a lot of his skills if there were to be an upset....

Karmazin and Castillejo fought in 2002 and although a close fight Roman lost the decision....12 months earlier De La Hoya had beaten on the spaniard winning every round and dropping him in the last....It was also Oscars first fight at the weight so he didnt have the strength or power he has now.....
Had Oscar gone to the body earlier like Mayweather was telling him to, he would have stopped the unexceptional Castillejo, as it was he put him down just as time ran out in the 12th!! Oscar showed vs the granite-chinned Mayorga that although he may have lost a little speed he definitely hits harder than ever!! Oscar easily beats the tough but limited Karmazin, whose claim-to-fame is a good win over an Ouma that just had trouble with 2nd-rate Rubio last Saturday night...

Karmazin has only just had his breakthrough, and has come through very well. he's made a lot of improvement in three years and many ppl dislike the castillejo decision. tough but limited? he was skilled enought to dominate Ouma. limited? he totally owned him on the outside and half crippled his body with body shots.

There's no guarantee that DLH, just cos he beat a truly limited guy in Mayorga, can beat Karmazin. DLH only goes for big name guys who have looked (relatively) poor in their previous fight. Considering Karmazin's not a big name who looked great in his last fight, it won't happen - Oscar will keep his bogus title and not bother to prove he's the best in the division and sadly will probably go down as some kind of junior middle legend!

Karmazin doesn't get respect. was the same with Adamek. After he beat Briggs ppl were actually picking Ulrich to beat him. Insanity. Ppl would probably pick Ouma to beat Karmazin in a rematch, had Ouma not looked so shopworn on Sat

Karmazin has beaten former middle titlist Holmes, Ouma, and when he throttles Cory Spinks & Daniel Santos I hope ppl start to acknowledge him...but no doubt DLH would get more credit for beating reanimated versions of Vargas, Quartey or Mosley

What pisses me off about boxing in America is that all these old men fights get all the publicity. meanwhile top quality emerging fighters get put on the fornicating shelf when there's loads of great fights out there for them

There's no doubt Karmazin is a very capable, good fighter. Like I said, beating a Southern Area level fighter (David Waker) and an unproven fighter (Ouma) doesn't make you the best in the division.
I don't think Karmazin would beat Fernando Vargas, let alone De La Hoya.

Posted: **09 May 2006, 11:15**

Ulysses wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:
CrunchTime wrote: Had Oscar gone to the body earlier like Mayweather was telling him to, he would have stopped the unexceptional Castillejo, as it was he put him down just as time ran out in the 12th!! Oscar showed vs the granite-chinned Mayorga that although he may have lost a little speed he definitely hits harder than ever!! Oscar easily beats the tough but limited Karmazin, whose claim-to-fame is a good win over an Ouma that just had trouble with 2nd-rate Rubio last Saturday night...

Karmazin has only just had his breakthrough, and has come through very well. he's made a lot of improvement in three years and many ppl dislike the castillejo decision. tough but limited? he was skilled enought to dominate Ouma. limited? he totally owned him on the outside and half crippled his body with body shots.

There's no guarantee that DLH, just cos he beat a truly limited guy in Mayorga, can beat Karmazin. DLH only goes for big name guys who have looked (relatively) poor in their previous fight. Considering Karmazin's not a big name who looked great in his last fight, it won't happen - Oscar will keep his bogus title and not bother to prove he's the best in the division and sadly will probably go down as some kind of junior middle legend!

Karmazin doesn't get respect. was the same with Adamek. After he beat Briggs ppl were actually picking Ulrich to beat him. Insanity. Ppl would probably pick Ouma to beat Karmazin in a rematch, had Ouma not looked so shopworn on Sat

Karmazin has beaten former middle titlist Holmes, Ouma, and when he throttles Cory Spinks & Daniel Santos I hope ppl start to acknowledge him...but no doubt DLH would get more credit for beating reanimated versions of Vargas, Quartey or Mosley

What pisses me off about boxing in America is that all these old men fights get all the publicity. meanwhile top quality emerging fighters get put on the fornicating shelf when there's loads of great fights out there for them

There's no doubt Karmazin is a very capable, good fighter. Like I said, beating a Southern Area level fighter (David Waker) and an unproven fighter (Ouma) doesn't make you the best in the division.
I don't think Karmazin would beat Fernando Vargas, let alone De La Hoya.

you're insane, he would make hamburger meat out of the overrated and fragile vargas

soon you can add cory spinks and daniel santos to david walker, keith holmes and kassim ouma!

that's what i don't like about guys like dlh. they can pick and choose whenever they want. they don't have to take the tough unattractive big risk fights. everything feels so manufactured, no more so than last saturday

Posted: **09 May 2006, 11:36**

viciousmaussa wrote:that's what i don't like about guys like dlh. they can pick and choose whenever they want. they don't have to take the tough unattractive big risk fights. everything feels so manufactured, no more so than last saturday

DLH took those fights on the way up: Jimmy Bredahl, Jorge Paez, John John Molina, Rafael Ruelas, Genaro Hernandez and Jesse James Leija were all tough, dangerous assignments for a young pro like DLH.

When you start making big money, pulling in PPV numbers (over $400m in PPV revenue for DLH's career) it means never having to take short money or unattractive fights where the odds are stacked against you again. ie Pernell Whitaker's first title fight in France.

Same can be said for SRL - he took fights on his terms, at his time of choosing, but only when he had established himself by beating some dangerouis 'badasses' like Mayweather Snr and Wilfredo Benitez on the way up...

Posted: **09 May 2006, 12:20**

viciousmaussa wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:

Karmazin has only just had his breakthrough, and has come through very well. he's made a lot of improvement in three years and many ppl dislike the castillejo decision. tough but limited? he was skilled enought to dominate Ouma. limited? he totally owned him on the outside and half crippled his body with body shots.

There's no guarantee that DLH, just cos he beat a truly limited guy in Mayorga, can beat Karmazin. DLH only goes for big name guys who have looked (relatively) poor in their previous fight. Considering Karmazin's not a big name who looked great in his last fight, it won't happen - Oscar will keep his bogus title and not bother to prove he's the best in the division and sadly will probably go down as some kind of junior middle legend!

Karmazin doesn't get respect. was the same with Adamek. After he beat Briggs ppl were actually picking Ulrich to beat him. Insanity. Ppl would probably pick Ouma to beat Karmazin in a rematch, had Ouma not looked so shopworn on Sat

Karmazin has beaten former middle titlist Holmes, Ouma, and when he throttles Cory Spinks & Daniel Santos I hope ppl start to acknowledge him...but no doubt DLH would get more credit for beating reanimated versions of Vargas, Quartey or Mosley

What pisses me off about boxing in America is that all these old men fights get all the publicity. meanwhile top quality emerging fighters get put on the fornicating shelf when there's loads of great fights out there for them

There's no doubt Karmazin is a very capable, good fighter. Like I said, beating a Southern Area level fighter (David Waker) and an unproven fighter (Ouma) doesn't make you the best in the division.
I don't think Karmazin would beat Fernando Vargas, let alone De La Hoya.
you're insane, he would make hamburger meat out of the overrated and fragile vargas

soon you can add cory spinks and daniel santos to david walker, keith holmes and kassim ouma!

that's what i don't like about guys like dlh. they can pick and choose whenever they want. they don't have to take the tough unattractive big risk fights. everything feels so manufactured, no more so than last saturday

Again, disagree – Vargas is nowhere near as overrated and fragile as Kassim Ouma, he clearly showed in his last fight with Shane Mosley that he is still a world class fighter.
There is a big difference between the company that the elite boxers like Vargas, De La Hoya, Mosley, Wright etc. have mixed in compared to Karmazin.
The Russian has shown nothing to suggest he can beat the very best.
It's certainly no foregone conclusion that he'll beat Cory Spinks.

Posted: **09 May 2006, 15:36**

bigzab wrote: According to the majority, Mayweather would gain a hell of alot of respect for beating DLH (money aside for a moment). If you believe that fighting DLH at lightmiddle is too great a risk for Mayweather, then you have to concede that the respect would be even greater - higher risk = more respect, ala DLH-Hopkins.

DLH is arguably the best fighter in Mayweathers region of weightclass. I for one can not see a better way for PBF to cement No.1/Legend status.

Why would PBF necessarily be at a physical disadvantage? Chances are, yes he will, but it takes two to tango, Mayweather ain't dumb and he can insist on a catchweight fight. Yes, DLH is naturally bigger, but is also at a more advanced stage of his career, so physically, if you consider the balance of speed, mobility and STAMINA, well......

The fight would benefit DLH slightly more than Mayweather. As I said, P4P no.1 would be up for grabs, winner take all in that regard. A return in the event of a DLH victory would be unlikely. On the other hand, it's certainly last throw for DLH, PBF will have years ahead of him.

DLH does not deserve the fight??????

As for your last point, DLH will never beat Hopkins, but in my book, he earned respect for trying, much as Mayweather would for taking on DLH.

Fair points but I feel the Mayweather has it all to lose and ODLH all to gain.

If ODLH wins its an amazing send off "HOF legend etc" and if he loses then he was fighting "the best" anyway and gains credit for taking him on.

If Mayweather loses then it's "he (FM) was overated and couldn't beat a past his peak ODLH etc" and if he wins he's beaten "an over the hill faded ODLH"

This is what I was trying to say when I didn't think ODLH deserved the fight with FM. I didn't express myself clearly.

Posted: **09 May 2006, 15:41**

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Matchfixer wrote:What would Mayweather gain from fighting DLH ?...
What about $20 Million?

Oscar is still the biggest name in the sport, and a win over him would make a massive mark or his ledger and a fat deposit in his bank account. It's a good fight as well, but Mayweather should insist on it being at 147 or a catchweight.

Yes money of course but I think in pure boxing terms it wouldn't be FM's best move, although obviously not his worst either.

Posted: **09 May 2006, 17:58**

Matchfixer wrote: Fair points but I feel the Mayweather has it all to lose and ODLH all to gain.

If ODLH wins its an amazing send off "HOF legend etc" and if he loses then he was fighting "the best" anyway and gains credit for taking him on.

If Mayweather loses then it's "he (FM) was overated and couldn't beat a past his peak ODLH etc" and if he wins he's beaten "an over the hill faded ODLH"

This is what I was trying to say when I didn't think ODLH deserved the fight with FM. I didn't express myself clearly.

I would imagine that if Mayweather lost (providing that the bout was at 154) then most boxing fans would simply acknowledge that 154 was too much for Floyd (which is nothing against Floyd, everyone has limitations)

Posted: **09 May 2006, 19:40**

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Matchfixer wrote:What would Mayweather gain from fighting DLH ?

DLH is looking for a dream match while Mayweather is arguably at his career peak and IMHO should be concentrating on establishing his number one status.

Fighting DLH he'd also be at a natural size disadvantage.

This fight would benefit DLH lots more than Mayweather and with maximum respect to DLH and his career I don't think he deserves this fight. He should not be considering it.

DLH should stick to some other HOF who has already achieved greatness (Hopkins again maybe) or at least fight someone his own size.
What about $20 Million?

Oscar is still the biggest name in the sport, and a win over him would make a massive mark or his ledger and a fat deposit in his bank account. It's a good fight as well, but Mayweather should insist on it being at 147 or a catchweight.

HBO commentator Jim Lampley said on radio Monday that he predicts $12.5 mill for Floyd & $22.5 mill for Oscar=total purse=$35 mill...

Posted: **10 May 2006, 01:41**

Matchfixer wrote: Fair points but I feel the Mayweather has it all to lose and ODLH all to gain.

If ODLH wins its an amazing send off "HOF legend etc" and if he loses then he was fighting "the best" anyway and gains credit for taking him on.

If Mayweather loses then it's "he (FM) was overated and couldn't beat a past his peak ODLH etc" and if he wins he's beaten "an over the hill faded ODLH"
This is what I was trying to say when I didn't think ODLH deserved the fight with FM. I didn't express myself clearly.

See where you are coming from, it's a shame that boxing fans are so cynical. Even after what DLH showed against Mayorga, no-one can seriously make a case for DLH being over the hill.
Yet if he fights PBF and loses, you can bet your house and car that he will be waaaay past his best.

Posted: **10 May 2006, 03:02**

Arthur Abraham

He would finally knock the f++k out of Chicken de la Tortilla-Kournikova and would show that this lady is the most overhyped and most overestimated boxer of all times.

Posted: **10 May 2006, 03:52**

Ulysses wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Four years is a long time, I don't think Oscar is the same fighter he was then, and Karmazin has a better set of tools than the likes of Mayorga. I'm not saying he would neccesarily win, but I think he could give Oscar a very hard night.
Fair enough assesment, however I feel De La Hoya is closer to the fighter he once was than we all thought prior to Saturday night.
And for some to say he's been ducking Karmazin for years is borderline ludicrous!

Karmazin's definitely come along well after those four years. If ppl can't take him seriously after wins over Keith Holmes and Kassim Ouma I don't know when they will. He's earned his way to the top of light middle and those old bastards can't be #1 on popularity alone

Mayorga is made for comebacking guys like DLh and Tito. If they have some remaining class it's more than enough for that one trick pony Mayorga who has looked like nothing above welterweight.

Karmazin was Oscar's #1 contender for a while, that was what i meant

Posted: **10 May 2006, 04:34**

Why isn't Arthur Abraham a poll option??????????

BoxRec

DLH's final fight - who do you want.