BoxRec

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:I'm sorry but I don't agree with everyone just going on and on (well mostly its been Barry) that Butterbean is worse than Clark. Least Bean has beaten people with records all over the world---he wasn't some oddity that just fought in his home state like, for instance, Monte Masters.

I'm not saying Esch is just a great fighter, but I believe he is better than what most people would give him credit for. I mean ffs, when he was supposed to face off with Bob Mirovic he was the betting favorite, and Mirovic was the former champion of Australia and fought for the British title.

I am not saying Esch would be top ten, top twenty or even 30 material, but I do believe he could beat some more "accomplished" boxers. He is unfairly judged on appearance alone cus he's a fat man, and he has, despite having over 80 fights, fought mostly 4 rounders.

The four rounders bit isn't really his fault, he got the moniker "KING OF THE FOUR ROUNDERS" from Art Dore, and that was what made him marketable---he tried to break free of that stigma two times, once against Peter McNeeley and the other against Larry Holmes, as well as a scheduled 8 round fight against a Tyrone Muex.
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Butterbean has lost to guys not even in the top 80, so to claim he'd beat top 50 HWs is stretching it.

The guy was pegged in the 4 round fights b/c that was how he'd be successful and marketable. If he'd fought longer fights vs tougher comp like most prospects, he would've become a tomato can.


This guy got schooled by a 55 yr old Lary Holmes. End of story.

well, I do recall, that Holmes came out of retirement soley because of what was written in his autobiography saying that:

"Butterbean is a fat slob impersonating a fighter."

"Boxing would be better without circus sidehow acts like Butterbean."

Esch said he would face Holmes, and so he did. Sure he lost to Holmes, and despite Holmes being 50 at the time---after the win, he said that Esch was a far better fighter than he thought.

And after the fact Holmes called out Juan Carlos Gomez, who was campaigning as a Heavyweight and an October date was set, and Gomez pulled out for no real reason.

No Holmes wasn't an ideal choice for a Butterbean fight, but least Esch was willing to fight, and is still willing to fight anybody. Thing is, if Esch is just this great big bum, why doesn't anybody fight him?

I aint a Butterbean nut-hugger but that doesn't make sense, cus Esch calls out everybody, and nobody wnats to fight him. If he's just some big pushover why the fornicate not?

>>>But the spider was attacking the butterbean nuthugger, not you barry.... not you!!<<<

I know, but it was just too horrible for me to endure. Now a big cobra would have been alright for me.


>>>cus Esch calls out everybody, and nobody wnats to fight him.<<<

To start with, Butterbean has no right to call out any one. What exactly has he done to even deserve a third-rate fighters attention? I have heard a lot of bums trying to call out top fighters, but until said fighter actually wins a fight of consequence then he is just yapping nonsense because as most of us already know, Butterbean does not have a chance with a decent boxer...no chance...that is unless the fighter can be bribed...which has been the case with probably between 50% and 75% of Butterball's fights...I know a lot of his fights have been tank-jobs...if they hadn't he would have a lot more losses on his record...even against the poor opposition he has faced. It's not some conspiracy against Butterball...it's just the facts and reality!

And by the way, I have never actually heard Butterbean calling anyone out except Tyson, or maybe the 80 year Larry Holmes, who even at that age put it all over Butterball!

As I said before, Butterbean has done nothing in the ring to even merit any kind of serious consideration from anyone, much less from the management of any top fighters and what he has accomplished in heavyweight boxing does not even merit him a phone call with Tyson...much less a multi-million dollar fight!

barry wrote:>>>But the spider was attacking the butterbean nuthugger, not you barry.... not you!!<<<

I know, but it was just too horrible for me to endure. Now a big cobra would have been alright for me.

Just not spiders... Ok.



CENTIPEDE ATTACK!!


http://img114. .us/img114/2205 ... ede4qx.gif

she got legs!

I don't see the resemblance...

http://i.gleeson.us/b2/0411/botv/BOTV_donkey.jpg

I gotta guy named samuel I've hired to do consult work, he's uppin my quality leaps and bounds.

>>>Also, didn't I already order you to ban me from posting on this site? Why are you disobeying me?<<<


Samuel, the reason I don't ban you is simple, because I never let little children get they're way...now go and finish your time-out!

Plus...I don't ban anyone...I just delete obvious moronic threads...you know...like yours!

Besides, I would rather you continue to make yourself look like the "wise" individual you do. Not to mention, anyone with any sense at all would be able to leave on they're own instead of whining and crying for someone else to disipline them...oh wait a minute, I know what it is why you ask for someone to punish you...other than your obvious obsession with bestiality that we all noticed from your ranting in your McClellan thread...you are also one of those bad little boys that like to be punished...what's your fave...the 15" spiked dildo?

For starters, my debate was directed toward Rufus, not Samuel...although I did say that I already knew what area Samuel belonged in. Samuel is the one that started yapping about top 20s, which anyone with any snce would realize that Butterbean, or Clark are nowhere near. I didn't misunderstand anything. As I have maintained from the start...Butterbean and Lamar Clark are equal in prestige and almost equal in ability, though Clark was a little more polished that Butterball...that was what Rufus' argument was about, Butterbean and Clark...not top 20s...Samuel was just doing his usual routine of not knowing what he is doing...you need to pay closer attention to what you you try to correct.

And for the record...no, just about any top 20 heavyweights cannot score 44 straight knockouts...no one has done it since...except Don Steele, that other all-time great in the Butterbean, Clark league, and there have been a lot to fight nothing but weak opposition...first and foremost Butterbean and he sure as hell did not score any consecutive knockout marks and when going over records of those who were top 20 heavyweights...well most have failed to knockout very weak opposition before they reach ten total bouts!

And again...for the record most of those 0-0 bouts are right as Clark just simply fought weak opponents...his is not a case of opponents records being incomplete in the database...there might be a couple, but very, very few actually had any bouts!

Sorry to just change the subject to some sanity....but

You know that fella Archie Moore? He racked up quite a few KO's along the way from what I hear, but he kept fighting good fighters and I don't think he ever strung more than 8 or 9 in a row. And of course he is just about the best there ever was (ok well we know this is in my opinion)....and he usually fought very good opponents.

Funny thing about hangin with the truly "big" dogs, your going to lose or go the distance here and there because your actually challenging yourself. The only way you can string that many KO's in a row is to absolutely cherry pick to the max your opponents. Cause anytime you walk into the ring with someone even half as good as you are, you could be upset, befuddled, confused or surprised. And that is a fact.

samuel wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Sorry to just change the subject to some sanity....but

You know that fella Archie Moore? He racked up quite a few KO's along the way from what I hear, but he kept fighting good fighters and I don't think he ever strung more than 8 or 9 in a row. And of course he is just about the best there ever was (ok well we know this is in my opinion)....and he usually fought very good opponents.

Funny thing about hangin with the truly "big" dogs, your going to lose or go the distance here and there because your actually challenging yourself. The only way you can string that many KO's in a row is to absolutely cherry pick to the max your opponents. Cause anytime you walk into the ring with someone even half as good as you are, you could be upset, befuddled, confused or surprised. And that is a fact.

Archie Moore is just one of many guys that I think could easily have bested Clarks KO string if he had been fighting the guys that Clark had been fighting. As you suggest, the Clark legacy should be considered more a matchmaking feat than anything else.

We agree, thus beginning the final countdown for the end of the world as we know it.

samuel wrote:

Decagon wrote:You did completely misunderstand the post, Barry. Where was he saying that Clarke or Butterbean were top-20 heavyweights? He simply said that any top-20 heavyweight of today could break Clarke's record if he fought opponents with as little experience.

Samuel, most of those 0-0-0 records are simply incomplete. Those guys had fights. They just aren't recorded in the Boxrec database yet.

You are quite right that Barry completely misunderstood the post, and seems to continue to misunderstand it, even after additional explanations.

As far as the incomplete records are concerned, I know that can be an issue, but I do recall reading an article on Clark where it was indicated that most of his opponents were in fact fighters with no experience, or wrestlers who had never boxed before, so I think in this case, the records might be mostly accurate. If anybody can disprove this and provide some actual data for some of these 0-0-0 guys, I will happily concede that I am in error.

Barry is still here?

To Samuel and Collins... just a hypothetical,

What if barry actually glimpsed into the greater meaning of what it is you were trying to convey and brought to the conversation a complex holistic multi-dimensional-quasi-psycho-accoustical resonance?

I'll bet neither of you never gave that possibility any serious consideration.

BoxBuzz wrote:To Samuel and Collins... just a hypothetical,

What if barry actually glimpsed into the greater meaning of what it is you were trying to convey and brought to the conversation a complex holistic multi-dimensional-quasi-psycho-accoustical resonance?

I'll bet neither of you never gave that possibility any serious consideration.

Actually, buzzy, I DID give it some thought. But then I remembered who it was that was posting.

By the way, have you been editing any more posts while I was inside?

Collins you cut me to the quick.....You know I've given up on my former evil ways and seen the light brother....... so your out on good behavior? Back in on the weekends eh? Hey samule oops sorry bad spelling...samuel I'm working on sewing in double negatives in order to bring a breezy dynamic metaphorical impact to my sense of irony....I'm counting on this to help crank up the hilarity factor in my posts by .04% or more.

You no think it not better than never before? Or no?

BoxBuzz wrote:Collins you cut me to the quick.....You know I've given up on my former evil ways and seen the light brother....... so your out on good behavior? Back in on the weekends eh? Hey samule oops sorry bad spelling...samuel I'm working on sewing in double negatives in order to bring a breezy dynamic metaphorical impact to my sense of irony....I'm counting on this to help crank up the hilarity factor in my posts by .04% or more.

You no think it not better than never before? Or no?

I'm in the WPS now, buzzy.

exactly

>>>Barry is still here?<<<

You need to come up with some new material Collins...that exact line was just as lame over on the CBZ, but it's nice to see that you have pulled your head out of your ass..er, I mean out of the sand and made an appearance after two months of soaking your wounds. You seem to forget...I have always been here...and I'll always be here...as I told you before...long after you are gone I'll still be here!

barry wrote:>>>Barry is still here?<<<

You need to come up with some new material Collins...that exact line was just as lame over on the CBZ, but it's nice to see that you have pulled your head out of your ass..er, I mean out of the sand and made an appearance after two months of soaking your wounds. You seem to forget...I have always been here...and I'll always be here...as I told you before...long after you are gone I'll still be here!

Come on bazza, admit you missed me...

To tell you the truth, like everyone else on the board, I haven't given you any thought as I forgot you even existed. In fact, I do not think anyone ever asked, "Where is Collins2000?"

Sorry to be so blunt, but you were not missed because no one considers you to be of any use to the topic of boxing, nor does anyone that I know of value your opinion...hence the reason your name has not come up until you pulled your head out of the sand and spoke up yourself. Sorry, but that’s just how things are.

Maybe if you would forget about me and move on with life you might be able to contribute some worthwhile conservation to various topics pertaining to boxing. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

One thing is certain and still very, very obvious to any and everyone…you should really get over your need of attempting to get one over on me…you have now wasted close to half a year of your life without reward, so what makes you think this time will be any different? Just except it as one of life’s bitter defeats that can be chalked up as a lesson and get on with your life.

I don’t know if it is funny or sad. You were gone from the forum for around two months and now you drop back by and who was your very first post directed to…it was directed to me. It wasn’t about any of the things that have happened in boxing during the past two months, nor was it about boxing at all…it was to me! Collins2000, you no doubt, must be one sad and lonely person…or is it just bitterness that you simply cannot let go of! Whatever it is you really need to take a long, long look in the mirror. Well that’s about all I have to say to you, so seek attention elsewhere!

barry wrote:To tell you the truth, like everyone else on the board, I haven't given you any thought as I forgot you even existed. In fact, I do not think anyone ever asked, "Where is Collins2000?"

Sorry to be so blunt, but you were not missed because no one considers you to be of any use to the topic of boxing, nor does anyone that I know of value your opinion...hence the reason your name has not come up until you pulled your head out of the sand and spoke up yourself. Sorry, but that’s just how things are.

Maybe if you would forget about me and move on with life you might be able to contribute some worthwhile conservation to various topics pertaining to boxing. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

One thing is certain and still very, very obvious to any and everyone…you should really get over your need of attempting to get one over on me…you have now wasted close to half a year of your life without reward, so what makes you think this time will be any different? Just except it as one of life’s bitter defeats that can be chalked up as a lesson and get on with your life.

I don’t know if it is funny or sad. You were gone from the forum for around two months and now you drop back by and who was your very first post directed to…it was directed to me. It wasn’t about any of the things that have happened in boxing during the past two months, nor was it about boxing at all…it was to me! Collins2000, you no doubt, must be one sad and lonely person…or is it just bitterness that you simply cannot let go of! Whatever it is you really need to take a long, long look in the mirror. Well that’s about all I have to say to you, so seek attention elsewhere!

I can feel the love, brother. Every day without your witty and humorour posts was painful for me. You know how much I admire you. The strength to carry on your battle in light of your obvious problems is an example to us all.



PS Is it worth reading those 10 PMs you sent me on that dark day we parted?

ok break it up...... nothing to see here folks...just keep movin......

BoxBuzz wrote:ok break it up...... nothing to see here folks...just keep movin......

Excuse me officer, but there's a man over there muttering and mumbling about someone impersonating him.

Can you help him? And I don't mean Rodney King style, so you can put your stick away.

samuel wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Collins you cut me to the quick.....You know I've given up on my former evil ways and seen the light brother....... so your out on good behavior? Back in on the weekends eh? Hey samule oops sorry bad spelling...samuel I'm working on sewing in double negatives in order to bring a breezy dynamic metaphorical impact to my sense of irony....I'm counting on this to help crank up the hilarity factor in my posts by .04% or more.

You no think it not better than never before? Or no?

I still can't fathom it best before I sample less of this newness. In other words, who doesn't like roast meat???

So you eat meat do you Sam??? .... thats nasty!.. . and there was me thinking you were a nice vegan sitting at your computer wearing cardboard shoes and shirt!!.... :x :x :x 8)

>>>My money is on Mr. Collins<<<

Sammy, of course it is…stupid is as stupid does…which clearly shows your intelligence level, which I mentioned earlier was evidently very low...especially since Collins already lost two months ago...now send me my money bitch, or do you want to go back and start whining and crying some more about what you heard one time about McClellan?

My money is on this...I would bet that in your neighborhood you are that freak that everyone points out to each other as the nerd that got it on with a dog...that would clearly explain your unequaled passionate love toward dogs…LOL!