BoxRec

Posted: **15 May 2006, 17:49**

Decagon wrote:
RazorKO wrote:Lewis an all time great? He was KTFO twice by average fighters, LOST against Holyfield in the rematch, LOST against Mercer - the same Mercer where old Larry Holmes won EVERY round. Floored by Akiwande and nearly taken out by Shannon Briggs. Not to mention being outboxed by Bruno and headbutted Klitschko to win the fight on cuts despite Lewis getting his ass beat and promising but never delivering a rematch.
Yeah. Same with that fornicating Muhammad Ali. I don't know why he's called an all-time great. He was floored by Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper and Doug Jones, lost three times to Ken Norton. Beat Sonny Liston, who was obviously well into his 40s, lost twice to Joe Frazier, and almost died in the only fight he deserved to win, beat a hostage victim for his third title, and Then went 1-1 with a 6-0-1 fighter for his third "title." He was outpointed by Jimmy Young - a poor man's Chris Byrd - and Earnie Shavers - a poor man's Samuel Peter, only to win by crooked decisions. He wasn't fit to carry Razor Ruddock's jock!

Yeah, he certainly wasn't in the same league as Ruddock or Coetzee.

BTW, Banks, Cooper and Wepner knocked him down in addition to Frazier. Hey wait, that's even worse, because Jones was a pretty good fighter and Wepner wasn't even good enough to be called a bum!!

Posted: **15 May 2006, 17:51**

Even though I recognize the Wepner KD as official you gotta admit that was a fluke with a bit of a toe assist.

Posted: **15 May 2006, 18:05**

Decagon thats a great post! I guess some people don't get sarcasam!

Razor Lewis may have lost the fights he supposely won??? but there's one thing for sure........

Ruddock was KTFO! End of! What way did his legs go again? Opposite to his body I think!

Posted: **16 May 2006, 05:34**

Arsenal wrote:Decagon thats a great post! I guess some people don't get sarcasam!

Razor Lewis may have lost the fights he supposely won??? but there's one thing for sure........

Ruddock was KTFO! End of! What way did his legs go again? Opposite to his body I think!

Lewis definetly lost the fights to Mercer and Holyfield in the rematch, any blind person can see who lost both of them. If Klitschko wasnt headbutted he would KO'ed this chump and Bruno would of done the same if Lewis didnt hold Bruno's head down and uppercut him ala Michael Grant.

Ruddock was KO'ed because the Tyson fights took something out of him, plus the fact that the partisan crowd would put any fighter off. Lewis has never been in a war in his career because forone he wouldnt be able to cope, and two his fighting style makes the most boring HW in history, even more boring than Ruiz.

Posted: **16 May 2006, 05:50**

Please post your scorecards of the Mercer, Holyfield fights, so we can all take the piss. Also I have the knockout of Bruno, would you like me to send it to you? I'll try and post it on here so we can all see him holding his head down.

Keep trolling...

Posted: **16 May 2006, 11:33**

lvlarc_uk wrote:Please post your scorecards of the Mercer, Holyfield fights, so we can all take the piss. Also I have the knockout of Bruno, would you like me to send it to you? I'll try and post it on here so we can all see him holding his head down.

Keep trolling...

Show me the link for the fight so I can view it, thanks.

Posted: **16 May 2006, 13:59**

lvlarc_uk wrote:Please post your scorecards of the Mercer, Holyfield fights, so we can all take the piss. Also I have the knockout of Bruno, would you like me to send it to you? I'll try and post it on here so we can all see him holding his head down.

Keep trolling...

I agree about the Bruno KO.

But I did score Lewis-Mercer and the Holyfield rematch for Lennox's opponents, and I don't think those are unreasonable scores. Just going by memory, my scorecard for the Mercer fight was

Rd 1-Mercer
Rd 2-Lewis
Rd 3-Even
Rd 4-Lewis
Rd 5-Mercer
Rd 6-Mercer
Rd 7-Lewis
Rd 8-Lewis
Rd 9-Mercer
Rd 10-Mercer

So that's Mercer 5 rounds, Lewis 4 rounds with 1 even. A draw would've been an appropriate decision.

Vs Holyfield, it was (and I remember this clearly as I've watched the fight many times)

Rd 1-Holyfield
Rd 2-Lewis
Rd 3-Even
Rd 4-Lewis
Rd 5-Holyfield
Rd 6-Holyfield
Rd 7-Holyfield
Rd 8-Lewis
Rd 9-Holyfield
Rd 10-Lewis
Rd 11-Lewis
Rd 12-Holyfield

That's also 6 rounds to Evander, 5 to Lennox, with 1 even. The scorecards way in favor of Lewis were partially retribution for the bad decision of the first fight. If the rematch had been the first fight, I have no doubt Evander would've unified the belts.

Posted: **29 Jan 2010, 14:54**

Posted: **29 Jan 2010, 14:56**

I've been thinking on this one and the only real advantage I can give to Lennox Lewis is that he was a smarter fighter.

Posted: **29 Jan 2010, 17:53**

Lewis had the better career, but had they met in their primes I would bet on Bowe.

Posted: **29 Jan 2010, 18:42**

BoxBuzz wrote:Lewis had the better career, but had they met in their primes I would bet on Bowe.

As would I. I think we take up the minority stand on it, though.

Posted: **29 Jan 2010, 18:43**

BoxBuzz wrote:Lewis had the better career, but had they met in their primes I would bet on Bowe.

You could --- maybe --- make a case for Lewis' right hand being a more devastating single blow than any of Bowe's shots, but that would be debatable, as Bowe also had pretty frightening power. He also wasn't as pensive about utilising it as was Lewis, which made him more dangerous overall.

Attention: Sorry, I was intending to quote Grimm's post about Lewis only having an edge as the smarter fighter.

Posted: **29 Jan 2010, 23:25**

I think the Bowe that beat Holyfield in their first fight was probably more impressive than any version of Lewis we got to see. However, Bowe never repeated that form against world class opposition. Lewis was the more consistent, so I have to favour him.

Had they fought in 1993 I think Bowe wins by knockout in the third round after visiting the canvas himself. Any time after then and Lewis knocks Bowe out in the middle rounds.

Posted: **29 Jan 2010, 23:39**

Lennox had the better career....was definitely the more disiplined fighter.......but if I had to pick a winner on their best nights....I'd go with Bowe.

Bowe had the better chin, better combination punching, better inside......and could dig deeper I think. But this would truly be a pick-em fight.....

I could also see Lennox winning a Dec as well....

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 02:25**

I tend to lean towards Bowe in this one should it have happened in 1993.
I wish it did, as it would have helped to stack the 1990s as a great boxing
era.

Then two undefeated HW studs meeting for the crown.

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 02:44**

Robinson wrote:I tend to lean towards Bowe in this one should it have happened in 1993.
I wish it did, as it would have helped to stack the 1990s as a great boxing
era.

Then two undefeated HW studs meeting for the crown.

What about peak-for-peak? Say, the Bowe of '92 against the Lewis of in-or-around ten years later?

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 02:50**

I do not know. Then it gets harder Mr GI.

Can I flip a coin ?

I tend to like Bowe for that brief period that he was on his
game.
But two big strong talented men.

Lets say, if you and I were to have a wager either way,
Id be doing it with very sweaty palms.

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 04:57**

I always liked Bowe's chances. though I sometimes feel like i was more confident in him than he was in himself.

It's a shame they never met, Lewis undoubtedly ranks higher as a great and Bowe, for my money, arguably was greater at their best. If I was a trainer and had a choice between the two on their best night, you would hear the wheels of my vehicle squealing away from Riddick Bowe.

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 05:06**

Bowe when he was on his game had all the goods and all the potential
in the world. But like you said Saad, he seemed to like that spark inside.

Lewis I think had the self awareness to think of his own legacy after
all had been said and done, whereas Bowe was one of those fighters
that only thought short term and had a shelf life of only so long.

I always would have liked to have seen a Bowe vs Bruno fight as well.
I would pick Bowe, but it intrugues me. Especially around 1993-1994.

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 10:35**

Seems like we are at a consensus which is pretty remarkable.

All or most think best night of career vs best night of career Bowe has the edge,

any average day of their careers and Lennox gets the nod.

I have to say that though I admire Bowe's skills at his peak and usually take his side in these debates, the give and take has changed my position overall to say that Lennox is the better fighter. And here is why.

Based on how they lived their lives, Bowe would win the first fight....and then true to form he gets overconfident and gives away the store from then on. He lost the "spirit" of the mission early on, whereas Lennox always seemed to be inspired by his weak performances never believing that he was the lesser man, just the less prepared on a given night. This is a hugely underated dynamic of any fighters persona.

In ANY trilogy imagined (for me)

I see it Bowe, Lennox, Lennox. With the third fight ending in a one sided UD. First fight Bowe would dominate it might not even go to the cards, second questionable and fairly competitive, and third all Lewis.

This based not on potential skill levels of these fighters but the fighting spirit within these fighters.

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 10:37**

The two opinions I would be interested to hear from would be dempseyfire, and granberry believe it or not. Sometimes I think they both take ONLY fundamental skill into consideration and don't bother with the psyche aspects. Which though I don't agree with, I am always interested in hearing that take.

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 12:32**

bowe just didnt have the eye of the tiger going on. so much skill, not so much will. bowe would look impressive through a few rounds then fall apart against the more determined lewis and get the hell beat out of him. ref mercy stoppage around 10

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 12:46**

tennessee wrote:bowe just didnt have the eye of the tiger going on. so much skill, not so much will. bowe would look impressive through a few rounds then fall apart against the more determined lewis and get the hell beat out of him. ref mercy stoppage around 10

I agree with this on most nights, but on each fighters "best" night, I see it going the other way.

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 16:26**

tennessee wrote:bowe just didnt have the eye of the tiger going on. so much skill, not so much will. bowe would look impressive through a few rounds then fall apart against the more determined lewis and get the hell beat out of him. ref mercy stoppage around 10

One guy fought three legitimate, all-out wars with Holyfield, & endured enough punishment through two beatings from Golota (especially the second fight, which was absolutely Rocky-esque --- & Jim Lampley even noted as much during the live commentary) to make Joe Frazier proud.

The other guy?

Got floored twice, & was finished instantly. Whose kidding who on the subject of heart?

Posted: **30 Jan 2010, 16:42**

Terry D wrote:Lewis not even a great British heavy? Name five more better than him. I love Bowe, in many ways I prefer watching him to Lewis but I also feel that Lewis was the better fighter. Bowe had one great night, granted, but there were some bad ones and huge chinks in his armour.

Grimm talks about Lewis having that mental edge, well that counts. Tillery reduced Bowe to aiming a kick at the testicles simply by frustrating Riddick. Also, Bowe's buttons were easy to push, remeber the one-two at the presser? Lewis would have bowed Bowe pre-fight once the endless 'faggot' jokes wore thinner than rug in front of Bowe's fridge. Bowe lost it in there at times, Lewis was more professional. Remember the Lewis-Tyson presser? Mike causes a riot, Lewis smacks him and retreats behind a curtain, typical Lewis, far smarter than his opponent. ESPN brawl with Rahman aside.

A fight would have seen them match one another for half the rounds before Bowe, starting to lose his way, fouls his way out off the contest. He saves face, to an extent, as his fans think he has done the 'manly' thing by doing this. No rematch, talks derailed by Newman, and Bowe gets the credit for the loss, Lewis gets little credit for the win. Holyfield-Tyson II all over again.

When two men are evenly matched the mental edge comes into play.

'Lewis butted Vitali'

Fair points but

*it was Tillery who kicked Bowe in the nuts.

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