BoxRec

he was clearly beating a prime Ottke even if the judges (surprise surprise) didnt see it that way

super middle rankings
1 Calzaghe
2/3 Argue between Kessler and Beyer
4 Mundine

You cannot have mundine above Kessler cause he lost to him fairly clearly... Beyer although vunerable has done enough in his career to warrant a higher position that Mundine... Whether he could beat Mundine if they fought next month is debatable mind you...

pundit wrote:

stujones wrote:A bit shocked at this one, perhaps Green is faded or simply a little overated - probably a combination of the two.

I could hardly make a case for Mundine before the fight though.

I know it was an eliminator for the WBA title, but I don't want to see Kessler and Mundine at it - would rather see Anthony fight Beyer.

Boxer beats puncher - happens time and again.
I'm not surprised at all. Muninde is the #3 s-m in my book.

Chinny (and quite easy to hit) boxer tends to lose though.

knockout wrote:he was clearly beating a prime Ottke even if the judges (surprise surprise) didnt see it that way

What ight are you talking about?

My ranking (on ability) is:

1 Kessler
2 Calzaghe
3 Mundine
4 Beyer
5 Lacy
6 Green (although after this loss he's probably done)

pundit wrote:

knockout wrote:To be fair the Ottke fight was more exhaustion than anything else.. maybe his chin isnt that bad after all???

Kessler can whack and he didnt drop him either...

Also gotta remember what a novice Mundine was back against Ottke... perhaps his defence and ability to roll with the punches has improved...

all guess work from me as i havent seen the Green fight, or the Kessler fight

All true, plus people tend to belittle the KO loss to Ottke - but losing to Ottke close to Ottke's peak is no shame whatsoever. And Mundine got Ottke into deep waters.

Mundine was pretty inexperienced at the time too, and didn't pace himself too well as a result.

Mundine has bags of natural ability, he's no amateur pedigree and turned to the sport late, to achieve what he has is VERY impressive.

pundit wrote:

knockout wrote:he was clearly beating a prime Ottke even if the judges (surprise surprise) didnt see it that way

What ight are you talking about?

My ranking (on ability) is:

1 Kessler
2 Calzaghe
3 Mundine
4 Beyer
5 Lacy
6 Green (although after this loss he's probably done)

Mundine was beating a prime Ottke i was saying, despite having to fight two men in there....

Interesting rankings, but generally you don't rank on ability alone IMO, has to be a mix of achievements, abilty, record v others in the division etc...

In an ideal world when everyone fought each other "abilty" would be reflected in "results" and we wouldnt have this problem.

But as Beyer, Calzaghe and Kessler and with the 3 most protective promoters in the world we are fcuked

What about Manny Siaca (or are you classing him as a Light Heavy).

knockout wrote:

pundit wrote:

knockout wrote:he was clearly beating a prime Ottke even if the judges (surprise surprise) didnt see it that way

What ight are you talking about?

My ranking (on ability) is:

1 Kessler
2 Calzaghe
3 Mundine
4 Beyer
5 Lacy
6 Green (although after this loss he's probably done)

Mundine was beating a prime Ottke i was saying, despite having to fight two men in there....

Well, the first 5 rounds were uneventful, Mundine dominated rounds 6 and 7, and from round 8 Ottke took over. By the time of the knockout Mundine was visibly running out of gas - it seems pretty clear to me that Ottke would have won no matter what.

Interesting rankings, but generally you don't rank on ability alone IMO, has to be a mix of achievements, abilty, record v others in the division etc...

In an ideal world when everyone fought each other "abilty" would be reflected in "results" and we wouldnt have this problem.

But as Beyer, Calzaghe and Kessler and with the 3 most protective promoters in the world we are fcuked

On achievement it's obviously 1 Calzaghe 2 Beyer 3 Kessler.

I believe the unification fights can be made if the fighters really want them. Beyer for example has little time left to secure a legacy, and Calzaghe's clock is ticking too.

Cheers, P

I can see Beyer cashing in, but I can see Kessler biding his time waiting for Calzaghe to move up, or retiring, or trying to get the fight with Beyer
in Germany. Doubt Beyer would fight Kessler though, he'd want the lions share of the money and then some, and I don't think Kessler would go for it. Kessler is young enough to wait till Calzaghe and Beyer are gone, and in the meantime keep defending and making noise.

Beyer I think would also rather lose to Calzaghe than Kessler, looks better on the record if that makes sense.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

pundit wrote:

knockout wrote:To be fair the Ottke fight was more exhaustion than anything else.. maybe his chin isnt that bad after all???

Kessler can whack and he didnt drop him either...

Also gotta remember what a novice Mundine was back against Ottke... perhaps his defence and ability to roll with the punches has improved...

all guess work from me as i havent seen the Green fight, or the Kessler fight

All true, plus people tend to belittle the KO loss to Ottke - but losing to Ottke close to Ottke's peak is no shame whatsoever. And Mundine got Ottke into deep waters.

Mundine was pretty inexperienced at the time too, and didn't pace himself too well as a result.

Mundine has bags of natural ability, he's no amateur pedigree and turned to the sport late, to achieve what he has is VERY impressive.

Couldn't have said it better

Ranking Kessler no 1 on ability!

No way.

I hear Mundine was giving him problems yet Mundine clearly lost on the cards.

Mundine is a year from from being at his peak. Now trained by Roy Jones snr you can see his style and influence coming out. I rank Mundine at 3# and if people watched the fight with Kessler (from a unbiased perspective) they would have seen a closer fight than what the score cards showed. The rematch is going to be exciting. I heard he gets $5m for the fight and Green $2.5m, not bad for a nights work.

p.s. dont give up on Lacy.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

pundit wrote:

knockout wrote:To be fair the Ottke fight was more exhaustion than anything else.. maybe his chin isnt that bad after all???

Kessler can whack and he didnt drop him either...

Also gotta remember what a novice Mundine was back against Ottke... perhaps his defence and ability to roll with the punches has improved...

all guess work from me as i havent seen the Green fight, or the Kessler fight

All true, plus people tend to belittle the KO loss to Ottke - but losing to Ottke close to Ottke's peak is no shame whatsoever. And Mundine got Ottke into deep waters.

Mundine was pretty inexperienced at the time too, and didn't pace himself too well as a result.

Mundine has bags of natural ability, he's no amateur pedigree and turned to the sport late, to achieve what he has is VERY impressive.

Its in the genes!... 8)