BoxRec

I can't belive how so many are writing Toney off here... Wlad is hardly Ali, Toney has the skills and durability to wear Klitchenko down the biggest question for me is if Toney has slipped or lost his ambition but if he is close to his top form he'll make this a very interesting fight.

hope the bookies believe the same as you, i'll be laying down big bucks on wlad KO ing Toney, no doubt.

this is such fuckin bullshit, what the hell has tooney done to deserve this title shot

LOL, anyone who gives Toney even a small chance in this fight is totally out of his mind. Their are no "buts" or "ifs" here. I'd be surprised if Toney was still around in the sixth round. I'd bet my life on this. In fact, I don't think Toney has the nuts to take this fight for once. I think he could literally be killed here. Toney isn't going to magically slip Wlads punches and wail on him on the inside. Even on the inside Wlad would throw James around like a rag doll.

PS: James stamina at heavyweight is probably even worse than Wlads.

That last point is pure bollocks. Even out of Shape, Toney still threw more punches in his fight against Rahman than most big heavyweights do. He may not be in his best shape, but he still has good stamina. He has to come in in better shape to fight Wlad.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:That last point is pure bollocks. Even out of Shape, Toney still threw more punches in his fight against Rahman than most big heavyweights do. He may not be in his best shape, but he still has good stamina. He has to come in in better shape to fight Wlad.

toney can go 12 rds without collapsing or near shititng himself (unlike wlad). he does a heck of a lot of sparring and is always relaxed in the ring, which helps him. but i think his stamina now has to be questionable, with his excess girth, as he would've beaten rahman if he hadn't finished so poorly

While Toney may not have the one power punch to knock Wlad out, I suspect that Wlad is just as wary of a repetition of decent punches and Toney, if motivated, is perfectly capable of doing that and they could have a cummulative affect

That being said, I don't think Toney has the gas to go 12 with Wlad at this point in his career and would have to pick Klitchko by points or a late round stoppage. Not without a few rounds of worry though

Slapsie

Yes, this is why I said that if Toney can get inside of Wlad's reach early (first 4 rounds realistically) and start landing combinations, then he has a chance of disturbing Wlad's mental state and causing the kind of collapse we saw against Brewster.

The one thing Wlad doesn't like is being involved in a dogfight, the same goes for Vitali, though Vitali has a much better chin. Both men like to keep their distance and land long hurtful shots, when their opponents are able to get close and land, neither man feels comfortable. The difference is that Vitali was able to fight through the feelings of discomfiture, where Wlad would just mentally implode.

Toney's ability to take a shot could be a factor, but he doesn't have the firepower of Lamon Brewster, nor the physical stature. No matter how good Toney's chin, he wouldn't want to take too many of Wlad's big shots.

It's an intriguing fight all right Terrence. However, Wlad has some serious physical advantages which should enable him to fight conservatively. It's not that I am underestimating Toney, I'm a huge fan of his, he's proper old school, but let's face it, the guy is almost 38, 50 lbs over his best fighting weight, short and undermotivated in the gym. All the natural talent in the world cannot overcome so many drawbacks........surely?

This is one of those times I would be happy to be wrong.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

Ben Keilty wrote:If Toney can weather the initial storm in the first few rounds he has a good chance of KOn Wlad, Im still not convinced of Wlads stamina if he is pushed into the late rounds and Toney will make him miss which will tire him out.

toney's got the chin to take anything wlad dishes out. i also favour toney to win this one late on.

toney's counter right will hurt wlad eventually.

We might be the only ones that think he can , But Klitshko just isn't the fighter he was before he was KOd the first time. I can see Toney making Wlad miss a lot and attacking him inside until he tires then KOn him.

You know, this is one of those fights where the pre fight press conferences could be important. If James can put the frighterners on Wlad a bit before the fight, it could have a major impact.

Wlad absolutely annihilated Byrd, but that's because he had no fear of Byrd's power (and also because Byrd tried to stand and plant his feet).

Toney will need to be a little careful at the press conference... if Vitali is there, he is just as volatile when he gets angry and wouldnt step down from a scuffle with the fat boy

I dont think Toney has a hope in hell against Klitschko, I just cant see how he'll win. He is not exactly quick on his feet so will get pummeled trying to get inside. Other than Holyfield Toney has not exactly been hurting people at Heavyweight and we all know Holyfield was shot to shit when they fought. I just dont think he has the power to worry Klitschko at all.

I never saw it, but apparently Rahman was grimacing a fair bit when Toney was hitting him, especially to the body. However, I do agree that Wlad, shaky as he is, is unlikely to be unduly troubled by the much smaller Toney.

Interestingly, Wlad only has a 3 inch reach advantage over Toney! Toney's reach is 78, Wlad's only 81". Wlad must have pretty short arms as he's very broad shouldered, and my guess is that Toney probably has longer arms than Wlad, so in theory, should be able to land the jab and straight right if can time Wlad's jab.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Interestingly, Wlad only has a 3 inch reach advantage over Toney! Toney's reach is 78, Wlad's only 81".

81" is about the right range for someone 6'4" - 6' 6", maybe slightly short, but 78" on a 5'9" fighter - are you sure James?!? Toney doesnt appear to have distinctly long arms...

Lefthookhappy19 wrote:LOL, anyone who gives Toney even a small chance in this fight is totally out of his mind. Their are no "buts" or "ifs" here. I'd be surprised if Toney was still around in the sixth round. I'd bet my life on this. In fact, I don't think Toney has the nuts to take this fight for once. I think he could literally be killed here. Toney isn't going to magically slip Wlads punches and wail on him on the inside. Even on the inside Wlad would throw James around like a rag doll.

PS: James stamina at heavyweight is probably even worse than Wlads.

have you even seen Toney fight?... to just write him off is insane...

TerribleTerry wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Interestingly, Wlad only has a 3 inch reach advantage over Toney! Toney's reach is 78, Wlad's only 81".

81" is about the right range for someone 6'4" - 6' 6", maybe slightly short, but 78" on a 5'9" fighter - are you sure James?!? Toney doesnt appear to have distinctly long arms...

That's what it says on Boxrec, not checked anywhere else.

whoops, 76, misread it.

Strangely, considering that he can cover his entire upper body, Winky only has a 74 inch reach! Maybe he has a short body and long legs.

As an aside, african and afro-carribean peoples tend genetically to have longer arms, and longer limbs generally. This is a throwback to their genetic heritage, as long limbs have a much larger surface area to volume area, enabling them to dissipate heat quicker and so keep their internal temperature cool.

I can't believe some of you think Toney has a good chance, did you not see his fight with Rahman (Which he lost) he was all over the place, everytime he got hit, his balance was pathetic.(I thought his legs were going to snap ) Imagine him getting pummeled at range by Wlad's solid hard rights..

Plus Toney's hardest right's weren't troubling Hasim, he doesn't hold enough Power at HW(something you need to beat Wlad)

I think some of you are still in love with the Toney below 220. Let it go, he's gone!

Im tellin you guys, Toney has NO Chance. 100%. I sure hope the bookies are as deluded as some of you.

Toney would never be able to even get there. But lets say he does get on the inside? Wlad will be able to out muscle and tie him up at will, so it won't matter. This is Toney's retirement fight. Their's hardly a guy in history who would be a worse matchup for a heavyweight Toney. Chris Byrd is a good few inches taller than James, and was actually in decent shape. Byrd fought Wlad before, he knew what to expect and what to plan for. He still got smoked.

When you guys see them facing up you will release Toney never really had a shot at this. Expect Wlad to REALLY push for this fight.

PS: Toney won't take Wlad punches for long despite his chin. Wlad hits like a truck. Toneys face will be a mess. And Toneys stamina is shit. After every burst of activity he has to take a rest.

Agree with everything you said, except his stamina is good for a 40lb overweight HW. His workrate isn't great, but his stamina is good, as he's still throwing in 12th without much fatigue..

Average workrate, good stamina/pace?

lvlarc_uk wrote:I can't believe some of you think Toney has a good chance, did you not see his fight with Rahman (Which he lost) he was all over the place, everytime he got hit, his balance was pathetic.(I thought his legs were going to snap ) Imagine him getting pummeled at range by Wlad's solid hard rights..

Plus Toney's hardest right's weren't troubling Hasim, he doesn't hold enough Power at HW(something you need to beat Wlad)

I think some of you are still in love with the Toney below 220. Let it go, he's gone!

You forgot that Rahman has a better chin than Wlad and easily as much power so i dont see your point.

Better chin yes, (I reckon he will get KO'd again by Maskaev next month) Toney wasn't forcing Rahman back with any of those big shots. Nor was his workrate.

"easily as much power"

Disagree. Since that huge right that landed on Lewis, I haven't seen much else from Hashim. Although Wlad easily has the best KO % of the current crop of top HW's

So are you suggesting Toney has a good chance against Wlad?

I said Wlad was the best HW despite his obvious flaws (which look to be diminishing) before the Peter & Byrd fights, I got some stick for that, but hey I was right.

Lads, be real, if Toney is there like Byrd was, he will get KO'd the same way.

toney will have to come forward to get in range to hit wlad. i can see him doing a byrd. absurdly trying to walk the bigger man down and getting murdered. though i know, byrd has serious issues moving forward - always has - and a peak toney can go forward or back... he probably feels he can roll his shoulders a couple of times and that wlad will all of a sudden start fighting down to him, plodding forward just so toney can pick him off with counters. won't happen. toney is so lazy now, plus he's far too small anyhow. this could be the fight that shows the world he's no heavyweight. sure he can hold his own - and then some - with medium sized heavies which is very impressive when you think about it, but if he takes this fight - and i will not be surprised if he makes some big financial demand - he will get crucified.