BoxRec

Max Molyneux wrote:

No he got it for that sole win. The logic was that Jones was not fighting a high standard of fighter and Hopkins pushed him aside before Jones came back by fighting Ruiz, depending on who was doing the list there would be 5-6 P4P #1's per year.

The belt thing is not a contradiction. If you can remove your pro-Joe bias think on this.

So just like Jones got his for Toney then.

The belt thing is a contridiction, some posters use them say how a fighter is better but then say it's the fighter that makes the belt or love it when they give it up to fight the best.

KO'ing one p4p fighter doesn't give you P4P no 1. FLoyd hasn't fought no P4P fighters yet gets the No 1 spot. I wouldn't mention bias, I wouldn't really say that as we all get biased. Seems the Americans are more biased than me then if their giving it to people on one win or guys who have fought no P4p fighters like FLoyd even if he's talented.

Joe looking poor against Ashira?

Outboxing with one hand, him winning every round doesn't make you look poor.

More biased than you Max? That would really be something!! ;)

nickd wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:

No he got it for that sole win. The logic was that Jones was not fighting a high standard of fighter and Hopkins pushed him aside before Jones came back by fighting Ruiz, depending on who was doing the list there would be 5-6 P4P #1's per year.

The belt thing is not a contradiction. If you can remove your pro-Joe bias think on this.

So just like Jones got his for Toney then.

The belt thing is a contridiction, some posters use them say how a fighter is better but then say it's the fighter that makes the belt or love it when they give it up to fight the best.

KO'ing one p4p fighter doesn't give you P4P no 1. FLoyd hasn't fought no P4P fighters yet gets the No 1 spot. I wouldn't mention bias, I wouldn't really say that as we all get biased. Seems the Americans are more biased than me then if their giving it to people on one win or guys who have fought no P4p fighters like FLoyd even if he's talented.

Joe looking poor against Ashira?

Outboxing with one hand, him winning every round doesn't make you look poor.

More biased than you Max? That would really be something!! ;)

It's obvious, they give fighters P4p No 1 spot even if they havent fought a p4p fighter, yet will not say Hatton's a p4p fighter even though he beat one in Tszyu.

You ain't strengthening your point with Sarcasm.

I dont need to strengthen my point. By all means be a Calzaghe fan but why that means you have to try and downplay and discredit anyone in and around his weight class is beyond me.

Hopkins is a hall of fame certainty, is Calzaghe?

Bear in mind, it's called the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of GREATNESS.

Even so, Hopkins EASILY deserves his spot, who else in the modern game has achieved more in the last 20 years? De La Hoya and Jones Junior, Barrera and Morales, how many more?

If you look through the IBHOF website, there are plenty of less well deserving fighters in there. Floyd Patterson springs to mind, one of the most fragile heavyweight champions of all time, and a guy who only beat one fellow Hall of Famer, Archie Moore, who was by that time pretty ancient, (when wasn't he?) Patterson was a tremendously popular fighter however, and was the first to regain the title, albeit against someone he should never have lost to in the 1st place.

Hopkins is nowhere near as popular, but his achievement, of winning the light heavyweight title, from someone who was certainly one of the best, if not the THE best LH's around, (and it's hard to prove anyone out there is better), at the age of 41, is a remarkable achievement.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Bear in mind, it's called the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of GREATNESS.

Even so, Hopkins EASILY deserves his spot, who else in the modern game has achieved more in the last 20 years? De La Hoya and Jones Junior, Barrera and Morales, how many more?

If you look through the IBHOF website, there are plenty of less well deserving fighters in there. Floyd Patterson springs to mind, one of the most fragile heavyweight champions of all time, and a guy who only beat one fellow Hall of Famer, Archie Moore, who was by that time pretty ancient, (when wasn't he?) Patterson was a tremendously popular fighter however, and was the first to regain the title, albeit against someone he should never have lost to in the 1st place.

Hopkins is nowhere near as popular, but his achievement, of winning the light heavyweight title, from someone who was certainly one of the best, if not the THE best LH's around, (and it's hard to prove anyone out there is better), at the age of 41, is a remarkable achievement.

And the manner of the win has to be considered too, he near shutout a much bigger man.

Terence wrote:

nickd wrote: Hopkins is a hall of fame certainty, is Calzaghe?

With the recent criteria I'd say, unfortunately as it stands, yes.

After a generation every title-holder will get in, they will run out of fighters/ballots/tourists otherwise. For me McGuigan does not keep good company with some of the guys who deserved to be in there.

Whoops, thought you meant Hopkins.

Calzaghe will most likely get in there, as the criteria these days mean that each year a set number of fighters MUST be inducted.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Terence wrote:

nickd wrote: Hopkins is a hall of fame certainty, is Calzaghe?

With the recent criteria I'd say, unfortunately as it stands, yes.

After a generation every title-holder will get in, they will run out of fighters/ballots/tourists otherwise. For me McGuigan does not keep good company with some of the guys who deserved to be in there.

Whoops, thought you meant Hopkins.

Calzaghe will most likely get in there, as the criteria these days mean that each year a set number of fighters MUST be inducted.

Calzaghe may get inducted eventually, but Hopkins will be a first ballot inductee without any shadow of a doubt.

nickd wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Terence wrote: With the recent criteria I'd say, unfortunately as it stands, yes.

After a generation every title-holder will get in, they will run out of fighters/ballots/tourists otherwise. For me McGuigan does not keep good company with some of the guys who deserved to be in there.

Whoops, thought you meant Hopkins.

Calzaghe will most likely get in there, as the criteria these days mean that each year a set number of fighters MUST be inducted.

Calzaghe may get inducted eventually, but Hopkins will be a first ballot
inductee without any shadow of a doubt.

Depends who else is eligible 5 years after Calzaghe retires. Don't be surprised if he is first ballot.

Ricky Hatton, even if he loses his titles soon, will be a first ballot hall of famer. hugley popular, attractive style, dethroned a modern great.

nickd wrote:I dont need to strengthen my point. By all means be a Calzaghe fan but why that means you have to try and downplay and discredit anyone in and around his weight class is beyond me.

Hopkins is a hall of fame certainty, is Calzaghe?

I'm not discrediting because I'm a fan. You seem to say things that people in the current scene would throw.

Not as bad as my debates on ESB anyway as I only jumped in their because they said Hopkins would rape him.

I don't buy into most of the hype HBO are giving fighters these days though although Hopkins has achieved alot ever since he left prison.

Of course he'll get in the hall of fame because of achievements.

Calzaghe deserves to be there as well.

I agree with James, if Mc Guigan got in their for beating Pedroza can Hatton certainly might for beating Tszyu.

Max Molyneux wrote:

nickd wrote:I dont need to strengthen my point. By all means be a Calzaghe fan but why that means you have to try and downplay and discredit anyone in and around his weight class is beyond me.

Hopkins is a hall of fame certainty, is Calzaghe?

I'm not discrediting because I'm a fan. You seem to say things that people in the current scene would throw.

Not as bad as my debates on ESB anyway as I only jumped in their because they said Hopkins would rape him.

I don't buy into most of the hype HBO are giving fighters these days though although Hopkins has achieved alot ever since he left prison.

Of course he'll get in the hall of fame because of achievements.

Calzaghe deserves to be there as well.

He needs 2, 3 more good wins before he deserves to be a HOFer. It's all up to him and his manager.

Hopkins is a no-brainer as regards HOF.

Well we'll see who Joe gets in those next 2 or 3 fights.

But hey least Warren didn't get some guy like Ashira and actually nearly bagged Johnson till Joe pulled out.

Max Molyneux wrote:

nickd wrote:I dont need to strengthen my point. By all means be a Calzaghe fan but why that means you have to try and downplay and discredit anyone in and around his weight class is beyond me.

Hopkins is a hall of fame certainty, is Calzaghe?

I'm not discrediting because I'm a fan. You seem to say things that people in the current scene would throw.

Not as bad as my debates on ESB anyway as I only jumped in their because they said Hopkins would rape him.

I don't buy into most of the hype HBO are giving fighters these days though although Hopkins has achieved alot ever since he left prison.

Of course he'll get in the hall of fame because of achievements.

Calzaghe deserves to be there as well.

I agree with James, if Mc Guigan got in their for beating Pedroza can Hatton certainly might for beating Tszyu.

Whats the current scene got to do with it? I just happen to think Hopkins has achieved far more than Calzaghe has regardless of nationality.

And why do you have to continually use the word "rape" I've never heard anyone else use that term!! Bad taste to say the least.

Max Molyneux wrote:Well we'll see who Joe gets in those next 2 or 3 fights.

But hey least Warren didn't get some guy like Ashira and actually nearly bagged Johnson till Joe pulled out.

We'll see. One should never give up hope.

they want Winky, and Winky wants Calzaghe. Watch Winky bloody well lose on Saturday!

I think Taylor will win, but should Winky win and the fight comes off then Calzaghe would be fighting a guy who only had his first fight at 160 a year ago having spent most of his career at 154. I'd much rather see him try and mix it up with the guys at 168 & 175.

Max Molyneux wrote:Man the hype Hopkins is getting for this win is ridiculous on some forums. Was a good solid win but if it was Tarver who won he'd get no credit for it.

Which is exactly why BHop is getting that kind of credit, he was a major underdog.

nickd wrote:I think Taylor will win, but should Winky win and the fight comes off then Calzaghe would be fighting a guy who only had his first fight at 160 a year ago having spent most of his career at 154. I'd much rather see him try and mix it up with the guys at 168 & 175.

Calzaghe won't move up to 175 unless for Woods. If Johnson beats Woods that's off. Glen's been pulle dout on 3 x. No way would they risk Joe against a formidable/underpromoted fighter like Adamek or Briggs.

With Tarver probably mentally shot now, and Hopkins retired, HBO wants a top guy around 168-175. there's the rpomising american chad dawson, but he's not ready yet it seems. so HBO might have renewed interest in Calzaghe, who fits the bill.

Taylor won't go up & fight Calzaghe. but winky, if he wins, wants this fight big. put it this way, if winky beats taylor, winky will have been 1) a WBO, WBA, WBC, IBF champ at 154 2) a WBC champ (winky not paying wbo sanctioning fee) who beat a guy that was undisputed at middle, and then 3) in a position to challenge WBO/IBF super middle champ

Joe is a very good fighter but he still hasn't really beaten anyone of note yet.

Yes Lacy was a good fight for him but Jeff was hardly the best in the world was he? (Admittedly I thought he would beat Joe).

What we need to see now is who Calzaghe fights in the next 18 months and how he gets on.....

Who would you like to see him in with?

Personally any 3/4 from the following would do:

Adamek
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
James Toney (catch weight)
Woods
Taylor
Wright
Briggs
Tarver

My personal preference would be as follows though:

Roy Jones Jr: A fight Joe would definately win at this point and still a big name....Pointless fight by some peoples accounts but would still be good to see Calzaghe school Jones Jr.

Bernard Hopkins: Again Joe would win this for me but it would be a close fight, I see Joe stopping Hopkins much like the Lacy fight with Bernard being badly cut etc...

James Toney: Again I see Joe winning which is bad really as James is one of my favourite fighters of alltime....Very close fight but with Joe being just too busy for Toney and winning on points!

Clinton Woods: An all British fight for Joe's finale, Joe would win this without a doubt and it would be the perfect finish to his career.

If Joe did the above then nobody could question his credentials or his place in the alltime great HOF.

Let's sit back and see what comes of Joe and his career.

HH

Disagree there HH,

Your list includes a clearly shot Jones, a 41 year old fight (who "could" "go" at any time), a weight drained (well he will be at catchweight) Toney who is again the wrong side of 35 and Clinton Woods.

The critics will have a field day for all of these, as it could be argued Woods isn't good enough and there is a valid excuse as to why Joe could beat those infront of him.

Having said that, as Hopkins is now (I'm not classing him retired just yet) the #1 Light Heavy, it is of huge importance that Joe fights him now (and next) otherwise - he will just be a champion in a poor era if he beats anyone barring Hopkins.

Its a pity that I just think he (Joe) will be too long in the tooth by the time two of the brightest prospects at Super Middle/Light Heavy are ready to make their mark - Librado Andrade and Chad Dawson.

Axe wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Man the hype Hopkins is getting for this win is ridiculous on some forums. Was a good solid win but if it was Tarver who won he'd get no credit for it.

Which is exactly why BHop is getting that kind of credit, he was a major underdog.

Deserves credit but Tarver is sluggish and slow as shit so no wonde rhe didn't need to take rounds off like with Taylor.

Yes Lacy was a good fight for him but Jeff was hardly the best in the world was he? (Admittedly I thought he would beat Joe).

People wanted the fight though so he took it.

Not Joe'sfault Lacy needs skill.

Lacy was a puncher who was peaking, whom we knew was good at grinding ppl down and his punch repertoire was improving. Joe wiped out an undefeated belt holder who was on the verge of stardom, and it was what Calzaghe did in terms of skills, variety & workrate that did away with Lacy. so credit where it's due.