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Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 10:59
by jamesmcdonnell
nickd wrote:Kessler is getting injured but he's not pulling out of many fights. Calzaghe is king of the pullouts, there isn't a fighter around who has pulled out of more fights than Calzaghe over the last decade. God knows how many I couldn't even begin to guess.
Kessler is a fair bit younger and less battle worn than Calzaghe. Having repeated breaks to your hands tends to have a major impact as you get older. It's incredibly frustrating for sure, and I'm not saying that EVERY pull out has been due to genuine injury, but I think the majority have. I always thought that the back injury was more to do with personal problems at the time, but who can be sure in these circumstances, very few of us.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 11:13
by pundit
jamesmcdonnell wrote:nickd wrote:Kessler is getting injured but he's not pulling out of many fights. Calzaghe is king of the pullouts, there isn't a fighter around who has pulled out of more fights than Calzaghe over the last decade. God knows how many I couldn't even begin to guess.
Kessler is a fair bit younger and less battle worn than Calzaghe. Having repeated breaks to your hands tends to have a major impact as you get older. It's incredibly frustrating for sure, and I'm not saying that EVERY pull out has been due to genuine injury, but I think the majority have. I always thought that the back injury was more to do with personal problems at the time, but who can be sure in these circumstances, very few of us.
In the end I don't care why Calzaghe pulls out all the time. I wanna see good Calzaghe fights, and I hope they cobble something together for the fall. With Beyer and Kessler gone the only good s-m opponent left is Tony Mundine. If Calzaghe doesn't wanna do thnis he would have to act after all on his repeatedly made announcement and step up to 175.
Calzaghe-Woods in November is the fight I want to see.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 11:20
by jamesmcdonnell
Calzaghe v Woods, Calzaghe v Johnson, either would do me. Calzaghe v Hopkins at 175 would be great too, but that ain't gonna happen.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 11:41
by nickd
Well lets hope its a big fight next.
I'd like to see Calzaghe fight any from Hopkins, Kessler, Beyer, Johnson, Woods, Mundine in that order of preference.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 11:49
by pundit
nickd wrote:Well lets hope its a big fight next.
I'd like to see Calzaghe fight any from Hopkins, Kessler, Beyer, Johnson, Woods, Mundine in that order of preference.
The thing is: apart from Mundine, none of these fighters is available before November. Hopkins because he's retired, the other four because they fight each oter - even though each of them would probably have prefered a shot at Calzaghe. But Frankie Warren spoiled it.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 11:53
by lvlarc
pundit wrote:nickd wrote:Well lets hope its a big fight next.
I'd like to see Calzaghe fight any from Hopkins, Kessler, Beyer, Johnson, Woods, Mundine in that order of preference.
The thing is: apart from Mundine, none of these fighters is available before November. Hopkins because he's retired, the other four because they fight each oter - even though each of them would probably have prefered a shot at Calzaghe. But Frankie Warren spoiled it all - again.
Well it's still only a few months after the biggest SM fight since Toney V RJJ in 94. I think he can be forgiven.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 11:58
by pundit
lvlarc_uk wrote:pundit wrote:nickd wrote:Well lets hope its a big fight next.
I'd like to see Calzaghe fight any from Hopkins, Kessler, Beyer, Johnson, Woods, Mundine in that order of preference.
The thing is: apart from Mundine, none of these fighters is available before November. Hopkins because he's retired, the other four because they fight each oter - even though each of them would probably have prefered a shot at Calzaghe. But Frankie Warren spoiled it all - again.
Well it's still only a few months after the biggest SM fight since Toney V RJJ in 94. I think he can be forgiven.
Do you write this just for fun, or are you really so deluded?
It doesn't leave a favorable impression.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 12:08
by lvlarc
Can you argue against my point, or are you just going to throw your toys out of your pram. It really doesn't leave a favourable impression.
Come on now Pundit, you are like a broken record. Get over it and look forward to future.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 12:09
by pundit
lvlarc_uk wrote:Can you argue against my point, or are you just going to throw your toys out of your pram. It really doesn't leave a favourable impression.
Come on now Pundit, you are like a broken record. Get over it and look forward to future.
I am, and in terms of Calzaghe fights I see - exactly nothing.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 14:03
by Autobarn
Terence wrote:I gave Joe a fair bit of stick pre-Lacy both in terms of his performances and his hands, the two are so linked it seemed he'd never get that big win. Now he has the scalp of Lacy and the 1 poisition, finally, at the weight everyone wants a big fight but to be fair to SN you don't just book a venue, click a finger and then sit-back to watch Joe-Taylor/Wright/Hopkins, big fights take about 3-6 months to come off and build so the days of guys fighting 3-4 big fights in the space of two years are rare. Lets judge Joe in a years time, if he has rematched McIntyre lets give him some stick.
As for the injuries he does pull out of a lot of fights and Ok many times it seems to paper over the fact he can't get a big fight but when you look at his punch technique he does often hit with open or semi-splayed hands so he is going to get hurt a lot. He is not a guy who is going to sit on his feet and punch satraight at you with the knuckle part of his glove, punchers like this get hand problems that can be rectfied, Thomas Hearns had hit problems, but with Joe his style puts a lot of pressure on his wrists as well as his hands and as he gets older his bones will get weaker.
As things stand he is a lot like a boxing equivalent of Roy Keane, injury-prone but you will get a lot out of him if he is fit and raring to go. I'll never really warm to his style but he is an effective fighting unit so I'll look forward to seeing him get some big fights and hopefully some names that are beyond the novice title-holder stage of their career.
needs to just take the one big fight, bad hands or not, win the fight, seal his legacy and retire. forget the mudines, go for the kesslers
Re: Calzaghe Deja Vu...?
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 14:37
by emma
koomey wrote:The BBC are reporting that JC will have a 'Superfight' in September.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/5083628.stm
As a Calzaghe fan I'm afraid I cannot get excited over this latest hype.
The latest opponents to be shortlisted are Jermain Taylor and Winky...
Come on Mr. Warren, let's cut the bullshit - I'll believe it when I see it.
A confused JC fan.
Koomey
It will be a 'super' fight because it will be a rubbish opponent and everyone will be 'super' disappointed....again
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 18:21
by Max Molyneux
lvlarc_uk wrote:pundit wrote:nickd wrote:Well lets hope its a big fight next.
I'd like to see Calzaghe fight any from Hopkins, Kessler, Beyer, Johnson, Woods, Mundine in that order of preference.
The thing is: apart from Mundine, none of these fighters is available before November. Hopkins because he's retired, the other four because they fight each oter - even though each of them would probably have prefered a shot at Calzaghe. But Frankie Warren spoiled it all - again.
Well it's still only a few months after the biggest SM fight since Toney V RJJ in 94. I think he can be forgiven.
Especially since he gave such a dominating fight too!
Least before the injury they wern't getting a tomatoe can for him they actually tried a decent name in Glen Johnson, so Warren is trying.
Would of been 120 - 105 but he could afford to have backhanded Lacy.
Notice how Kessler supposed to have wanted loads to fight Calzaghe, yet is taking less pay to fight Beyer.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 20:05
by jangeorg
nickd wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:nickd wrote:
Well HBO's interest in him has supposedly cooled with what happened recently.
Not double standards at all, but Calzaghe has talked about 175 for about 5 years and done nothing other than pull out of fights scheduled at that weight. His words were something along the lines of "its my dream to retire a 2 weight world champion".
Lets be honest Calzaghe could shit on your shoes and you'd still love him! ;)
Lets be honest and not assume because it could happen just hasn't yet.
I love you too if you shit in my shoes.
The sooner it happens the better. Or fight Kessler or Beyer. Forget middleweights there is unfinished business at 168 and above!
Calzaghe is getting older and will retire soon. He will lose against Kessler and he knows it. So he will avoid that matchup everyway that he can
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 20:38
by Max Molyneux
Funny Kessler supposedly overpriced himself for Calzaghe knowing he ain't worth too much yet is taking less pay for Beyer.
Neither are in Joe's league and are trying to be a poormans unified champ.
Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 21:43
by pundit
Max Molyneux wrote:Funny Kessler supposedly overpriced himself for Calzaghe knowing he ain't worth too much yet is taking less pay for Beyer.
Neither are in Joe's league and are trying to be a poormans unified champ.
Supposedly. Allegedly. According to what has been said. Or has presumably been heard. Perhaps that is.
Unified WBC/WBA champ - it doesn't come bigger than this.
Posted: 17 Jun 2006, 04:29
by Autobarn
Max Molyneux wrote:Funny Kessler supposedly overpriced himself for Calzaghe knowing he ain't worth too much yet is taking less pay for Beyer.
Neither are in Joe's league and are trying to be a poormans unified champ.
if Warren doesn't want the fight, the other guy always "overprices himself"
I don't know how anyone can say kessler's not in the same league.
Some ppl all of a sudden are calling him one pace, with nothing more than a jab. Well, he mastered the jab to a fine art. He's a left hander, i think. He also is a model of consistency who never stops letting his shots go. Look how far that took a guy called Winky Wright. That's pretty good for winning the rounds
On top of that kessler is fresh. He's faced some good fighters in Lucas, Mundine, Siaca, Green. I don't think Joe fought that many solid/good fighters by the time he reached 27
Why do Joe and Fwank never mention kessler. Their silence speaks volumes far too risky with that triphammer jab and lack of recognition. This is why Kessler needs to win this unification with Beyer
Posted: 17 Jun 2006, 05:13
by Max Molyneux
viciousmaussa wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Funny Kessler supposedly overpriced himself for Calzaghe knowing he ain't worth too much yet is taking less pay for Beyer.
Neither are in Joe's league and are trying to be a poormans unified champ.
if Warren doesn't want the fight, the other guy always "overprices himself"
I don't know how anyone can say kessler's not in the same league.
Some ppl all of a sudden are calling him one pace, with nothing more than a jab. Well, he mastered the jab to a fine art. He's a left hander, i think. He also is a model of consistency who never stops letting his shots go. Look how far that took a guy called Winky Wright. That's pretty good for winning the rounds
On top of that kessler is fresh. He's fa ced some good fighters in Lucas, Mundine, Siaca, Green. I don't think Joe fought that many solid/good fighters by the time he reached 27
Why do Joe and Fwank never mention kessler. Their silence speaks volumes far too risky with that triphammer jab and lack of recognition. This is why Kessler needs to win this unification with Beyer
Lucas is washed up. All he needed to do was step in and out jabbing that guy most of the time and that would be made for Calzaghe.
Left hander? He ain't no southpaw and a Southpaw would trouble him.
It didn't help Winky against Soliman and Calzaghe throws alot of punches but hella lot mre than accurate than Soliman and stronger.
Well by the time Joe was 27 he had fought Reid, Sheika and Eubank and Woodhall.
Mundine was only just starting his career then. Siaca was beaten by Mitchell who Joe stopped in 2.
Why do Joe and Fwank never mention kessler. Their silence speaks volumes far too risky with that triphammer jab and lack of recognition. This is why Kessler needs to win this unification with Beyer
They've mentioned him in BBC and Warren mentioned him in BBN articles and Kessler seems to want more than he;s worth at the moment. Whos going to give him that outside of Denmark?
As for young and fresh 33 is not that old and being young don't mean much as that was the excuse that was used for Lacy.
Posted: 17 Jun 2006, 05:18
by Autobarn
Max Molyneux wrote:viciousmaussa wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Funny Kessler supposedly overpriced himself for Calzaghe knowing he ain't worth too much yet is taking less pay for Beyer.
Neither are in Joe's league and are trying to be a poormans unified champ.
if Warren doesn't want the fight, the other guy always "overprices himself"
I don't know how anyone can say kessler's not in the same league.
Some ppl all of a sudden are calling him one pace, with nothing more than a jab. Well, he mastered the jab to a fine art. He's a left hander, i think. He also is a model of consistency who never stops letting his shots go. Look how far that took a guy called Winky Wright. That's pretty good for winning the rounds
On top of that kessler is fresh. He's fa ced some good fighters in Lucas, Mundine, Siaca, Green. I don't think Joe fought that many solid/good fighters by the time he reached 27
Why do Joe and Fwank never mention kessler. Their silence speaks volumes far too risky with that triphammer jab and lack of recognition. This is why Kessler needs to win this unification with Beyer
Lucas is washed up. All he needed to do was step in and out jabbing that guy most of the time and that would be made for Calzaghe.
Left hander? He ain't no southpaw and a Southpaw would trouble him.
It didn't help Winky against Soliman and Calzaghe throws alot of punches but hella lot mre than accurate than Soliman and stronger.
Well by the time Joe was 27 he had fought Reid, Sheika and Eubank and Woodhall.
Mundine was only just starting his career then. Siaca was beaten by Mitchell who Joe stopped in 2.
Why do Joe and Fwank never mention kessler. Their silence speaks volumes far too risky with that triphammer jab and lack of recognition. This is why Kessler needs to win this unification with Beyer
They've mentioned him in BBC and Warren mentioned him in BBN articles and Kessler seems to want more than he;s worth at the moment. Whos going to give him that outside of Denmark?
As for young and fresh 33 is not that old and being young don't mean much as that was the excuse that was used for Lacy.
NO, I MEAN A LEFT HANDED ORTHODOX. the same way that winky is a right handed southpaw. it pulls a heck of a lot of strength in the jab. calzaghe doesn't necessarily throw lots of shots against boxers, i.e. Reid (ven tho he's improved since then)
i've stuck up for calzaghe after beating lacy. but come on, he needs to do more, as great as that win was. his win over lacy now was only a semifinal. we all know kessler's willing to travel. he beat mundine in Oz. the same guy Warren asked to fight Joe on the condition that he probably owned him for the rest of his life
"Well by the time Joe was 27 he had fought Reid, Sheika and Eubank and Woodhall" fair enough. in terms of ability kessler isn't a league below. and neither was his opposition, then. Lucas did well vs Beyer. Siaca beat Mundine & I hear he did very well in those Mitchell fights. Was one of them controversial? Mundine we know is good & kessler beat him last year! Green was 1-2 against Joppy. Thobela beat Glenn Catley and was a WBC titlist
Posted: 18 Jun 2006, 08:10
by Max Molyneux
O, I MEAN A LEFT HANDED ORTHODOX. the same way that winky is a right handed southpaw. it pulls a heck of a lot of strength in the jab. calzaghe doesn't necessarily throw lots of shots against boxers, i.e. Reid (ven tho he's improved since then)
i've stuck up for calzaghe after beating lacy. but come on, he needs to do more, as great as that win was. his win over lacy now was only a semifinal. we all know kessler's willing to travel. he beat mundine in Oz. the same guy Warren asked to fight Joe on the condition that he probably owned him for the rest of his life
"Well by the time Joe was 27 he had fought Reid, Sheika and Eubank and Woodhall" fair enough. in terms of ability kessler isn't a league below. and neither was his opposition, then. Lucas did well vs Beyer. Siaca beat Mundine & I hear he did very well in those Mitchell fights. Was one of them controversial? Mundine we know is good & kessler beat him last year! Green was 1-2 against Joppy. Thobela beat Glenn Catley and was a WBC titlist
Of course he needs to do more but British fans or media get picky after a great win and still have doubts about his talent just like they do with football.
Traveling doesn't matter it's the fighters that do. In ability terms Joe is better and would clearly bet Kessler. Mundine could of but was afraid to open up. I respect Mundine a bit more now for beating Green.
Lucas was robbed V Beyer I'm hearing but Lucas looked shot Vs Kessler and din't win a round and was very inactive since Green destroyed Lucas. Siaca beat Mundine and I ain't seen the Mitchell fights but on paper and the official record is Mitchell beat Siaca who Calzaghe stopped in 2.
Posted: 18 Jun 2006, 09:44
by pundit
Max Molyneux wrote:
Lucas was robbed V Beyer I'm hearing but Lucas looked shot Vs Kessler and din't win a round and was very inactive since Green destroyed Lucas. Siaca beat Mundine and I ain't seen the Mitchell fights but on paper and the official record is Mitchell beat Siaca who Calzaghe stopped in 2.
You see - I respected Mundine's abilities well before the Green fight, while I never expected much from Lacy when matched with a fighter with great handspeed ..... Do your analysis
before the fight and you aren't forced into these embarassing revisions.
Posted: 18 Jun 2006, 10:47
by Max Molyneux
pundit wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:
Lucas was robbed V Beyer I'm hearing but Lucas looked shot Vs Kessler and din't win a round and was very inactive since Green destroyed Lucas. Siaca beat Mundine and I ain't seen the Mitchell fights but on paper and the official record is Mitchell beat Siaca who Calzaghe stopped in 2.
You see - I respected Mundine's abilities well before the Green fight, while I never expected much from Lacy when matched with a fighter with great handspeed ..... Do your analysis
before the fight and you aren't forced into these embarassing revisions.
Green used to be better though and I thought Mundine was overated because the Aussie Media hype him to shit.
I always said Calzaghe was going to win and knew Lacy wasn't in his league but I thought Green was more than a puncher with his robbery in the 1st Beyer fight and then making it close 2nd time around and destroying Lucas faster than Kessler.
Posted: 18 Jun 2006, 10:52
by pundit
Max Molyneux wrote:pundit wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:
Lucas was robbed V Beyer I'm hearing but Lucas looked shot Vs Kessler and din't win a round and was very inactive since Green destroyed Lucas. Siaca beat Mundine and I ain't seen the Mitchell fights but on paper and the official record is Mitchell beat Siaca who Calzaghe stopped in 2.
You see - I respected Mundine's abilities well before the Green fight, while I never expected much from Lacy when matched with a fighter with great handspeed ..... Do your analysis
before the fight and you aren't forced into these embarassing revisions.
Green used to be better though and I thought Mundine was overated because the Aussie Media hype him to shit.
I always said Calzaghe was going to win and knew Lacy wasn't in his league but I thought Green was more than a puncher with his robbery in the 1st Beyer fight and then making it close 2nd time around and destroying Lucas faster than Kessler.
Yeah, but you said Calzaghe would beat Lacy on power - which was badly off-the-mark prediction.
Btw: Green wasn't robbed against Beyer. He was disqualified for headbutting.
Posted: 18 Jun 2006, 10:55
by Max Molyneux
He did but the ref and Birmingham were too evil to not pull him out.
Birmingham must be possesed.
Posted: 18 Jun 2006, 10:57
by pundit
Max Molyneux wrote:He did but the ref and Birmingham were too evil to not pull him out.
Birmingham must be possesed.
This wasn't power. This was overwhelming your opponent with the quantity and (at times) accuracy of your punches. Which is and always has been Calzaghe's great strenght.
If getting your opponent off his feet is proof of superior "power", Muhammad Ali beat George Foreman in 1974 on power too.
Do you really want to insist on this point??
Posted: 18 Jun 2006, 11:06
by lvlarc
We like to call it power with military precision
Of course he beat Lacy with speed & accuracy, but power comes into equation too.