Rocky Marciano Ringside SATURDAY 12pm

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 22 Jun 2006, 20:55

Jaclem wrote:...i'm never sure of how i estimate frazier. at times i think he was up there with the very best...at other times...i think he might have been too one dimensional.

he would beat marciano, though. a fighter wouldn't have to be an all-time great to do that. :P

that easy huh? Marciano gets no respect, Frazier Marciano would be a closely contested battle.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 25 Jun 2006, 13:56

Jaclem wrote:..positive light!!!! jeezus....they made him into superman!!! i din't see all of it.....don't know if they edited down the first charles fight the way it's usually shown on "classics"..with all of ezzard's best rounds cut....but they fell all over themselves...at least from what i saw...in trying to make marciano into an unbeatable destruction machine with grerater defensive sklls than willie pep and a punch that would floor a rhinoscerous.

...however...speaking of falling all over oneself...i tuned in just in time to catch marciano vs. the washed up lee savold....and that fight goes into my own personal marciano "highlights" file...marciano hitting this poor old slob and not being able to put him down (he had been a once punch kayo victim of an over-the-hill joe louis earlier)...and rocky misses one swing and falls on his face. i add this footage to the first six rounds of charlesI...the first 12 rounds of walcott I....and much of his foul filled battering of that poor fat fellow don cockell.

it did dismiss the myth that marciano was "blinded" in those middle rounds against walcott. hell, if he couldn't see he'd half whacked the referee a couple of times by mistake. even keeper-of-the-marciano flame teddy atlas said the rock's eyes might have stung,. but if he couldn't see there was no way he could have traded punches with his 40 year old opponent as well as he did.

okay...brockton boy.....i know you've checked on to this one....and when your blood pressure comes back down let me know if you got that second email from me re: ezzard and ken overlin.

hahah nice one jaclem. actually you make a good point about charles marciano I. some of charles best rounds like rounds 2,3, 7-9 are not filmed and I would have loved to seen some of these rounds especially rounds 2-3 where charles supposedly really took it too the rock and gave him a boxing lesson those first 7 rounds. these were charles best rounds where he was fresh, and hungry. take a look at charles face in round 4 then take a look at charles face in round 15, you haesly rewcognize him, he took some serious punishment in those next 11 rounds.

interesting side note- rocky had a bad case of the flu when he fought savold, which is why he looked so awful and sloppy. it sapped all of rockys strength and rocky had no snap on his punches that night which is why he was unable to floor the old trial horse. he was in bed with the flu that whole week leading up to the fight and his handlers wanted to call it off.

ps ill go check if i got that 2nd email from you and get back to you

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 25 Jun 2006, 13:57

btw jaclem did u ever get my pm asking the question who do you think would have one between nino valdes and rocky marciano? i know what my opinion is but i am interested in hearing yours

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 25 Jun 2006, 14:04

bert sugar really sounded like an idiot at times

he said moore was born in either 1913 or 1910 and that moores mother claimed he was born in 1910! can u believe that he said 1910! everyone knows moores mother said 1913 and moore said 1916

facts prove that moore was in fact born in 1916 making him 38 in the marciano fight yet sugar claimed 1910!

also sugar claimed marciano was behind on the scorecards in the marciano-charles II fight which is laughable considering all 3 judges had marciano ahead by the scores of 6 rounds to 1 after 7 rounds

sugar also claimed charles was suffering from stages of his disease all the way back in 1951. thats pure bullshit since once u get the early stages of the disease u only live around 5 years and u have a 5% chance of living beyond that. yet charles died in 1971. charles was diagnosed in 1966.

atlas made some awesome points about marcianos style and really gave a lot of credit to marcianos skill and defense. i really liked hearing his point of view

the only thing i disagreed with teddy was when he said "moore didnt have the reflexes anymore when he fought marciano"

thats wrong cause if moore didnt have the reflexes anymore when he fought marciano, he never would have gone 45-1 in his last 46 fights and have dominated top contenders/great fighters like harold johnson,nino valdes, clarence henry, bob baker

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 25 Jun 2006, 14:45

..brocktonbuddy...i could do this in a personal message...but there may be oone or two others interested in my opinion...so....i think marciano would have chopped valdez down and stopped him somewhere around the fifth round..... but the actual round is harder to guess. valdez had some talent...which he never used all the way...an underacheiver. he didn't have dedication to training and was short on the intangibles....call them heart for lack of a better word. his size and jab would have bothered marciano for a bit.....but he'd fade fast and go strictly defensive once the damge started. (remember him against satterfield?) in a way, it's unfortunate for rocky that he and valdez didn't meet....it would have shown that marciano could beat one of the big Black and younger heavyweights of his day.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 25 Jun 2006, 21:24

it would have shown that marciano could beat one of the big Black and younger heavyweights of his day.

good points and i would have liked to see marciano take on nino too

marciano did beat one big black heavyweight of his day..... 6'2 214lb joe louis. louis however was not young, but even 37 year old louis was a formidable fighter.

nino at his peak did have skills and he was a very good puncher(especially with his right hand). he was a skilled big man defintley in any era. i think ninos best asset was his jab, it was long 80" and very powerful and he used it very well to outpoint charles in 53.

i also think had marciano fought and knocked out nino valdes, it would have helped his legacy a bit or at least silenced some of the critics.

a fight that really would have helped marcianos legacy is if he beat patterson in 1956 right before retiring. considering how good patterson was to become.

wins over patterson, charles, moore, walcott thats a very solid legacy right there alone

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 25 Jun 2006, 21:31

Is it true Marciano worked out with a 300+ hitting bag and hit with a force of 1200 psi?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 26 Jun 2006, 01:38

...andrew..you may be thinking of the fight with don cockell....

back to valdez.....because rocky was rusty going into the second lastarza fight......less then a round of action against walcott prior to it....he had to fight his way into shape as the fight went on....therefore charley goldman thought he needed a match before taking on charles and suggested one against valdez, whom goldman thought marciano would beat but would get some needed rounds in. al weill said "no way"...unwilling to take the risk. maybe i give valdez too short shrift in my assessment of him against marciano...i'm sure rocky would win, but valdez might have made it a little tougher. valdez has the qualities brockton boy mentions....but i still think he'd fade quickly against the marciano assault...and i also think he'd have gone into the ring thinking the same thing. he just didn't have the mental attitude to get the most out of what he had going for him physically.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 26 Jun 2006, 10:00

good points..........also interesting read about wut goldman and weill had to say on the matter jaclem.

al weill didnt know shit about rocky as a fighter, goldman did. he knew how good rocky was

i think marciano should have fought valdes before charles cause it would have helped shake off some ring rust before facing a master boxer like charles

jaclem, wuts ur thoughts on bob baker and clarence henry?? i heard clarence henry became blind which is why he lost to hurricane jackson

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 26 Jun 2006, 10:01

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:Is it true Marciano worked out with a 300+ hitting bag and hit with a force of 1200 psi?

yes marciano did workout with a 300lb bag, but his PSI was actually 1000