Murry Woroner's All Time Heavyweight Championship!!!

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 01 Jul 2006, 23:01

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:
Puzzled how anyone could see John L Sullivan beating James J. Braddock. Sullivan in his prime was just a brawler like one of these MMAUFC punks. No boxing skills at all. None. Zero. Braddock would've had a field day with the little guy, putting his left in Sullivan's face every time the dumb Boston boyo made one of his bull-like rushes. Then crossing with his right, to put Sully down hard. Braddock loses only if he puts both hands behind his back and sticks his chin out.

Cap
Sullivan reigned for over 10 years as a bare-knuckle champion and reigned almost 8yrs under the Marquis of Queensubury. Many of his opponents said the man used many feints and had good skills, just his ferocity and power was so awesome. Besides we're talking HEAVYWEIGHT and Sullivan beat the best Heavyweights of his time, while Braddock was a washed up Light Heavyweight who jumped to Heavyweight and miracuously won a few fights at Heavyweight. His win over Baer was a joke---as Max clowned for 14 rounds and in the 15th brought on the hurt and Braddock some how managed to take his bombs.

Believe me if Baer had fought that way from round one onwards, Braddock would have been destroyed inside of two rounds---that's why I picked John L. Sullivan in ways, because he was relentless and of course, as a Heavyweight, Braddock was over-the-hill. Better skills? Yes...but I don't think he could really handle himself a real fighter with punching prowess at Heavyweight.

i disagree with ur assertion on braddock, he was a very good fighter and was not over the hill when he fought baer. he was 29 years old and at peak shape and did not have bad hand injuries anymore. he was coming off wins over art laskey and HOF john henry lewis( a master boxer).

braddock had a granite chin, thats why he tooks baers bombs. also braddock was an excellent boxer, he was a very polished smooth and patient boxer. his best weapon was his jab, he had a very good long 78" jab which he busted baer with the whole fight. braddock also had size 6'3 195lb.

braddock was a legite fighter, even after he beat baer he managed to knock down joe louis, and beat top contender tommy farr.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 01 Jul 2006, 23:47

I ain't saying Braddock wasn't a great fighter, just his prime was at Light Heavyweight, and to say his career at Heavyweight was because he solely was a great fighter, i'd say is just a small bit of it. Most of it was luck and determination.

When he beat the clowning Baer, the world stood up to say "THAT IS THE BIGGEST UPSET SINCE SULLIVAN LOST TO CORBETT!"

Sure he dropped Louis, but everybody by then knew Louis had an iffy chin, and sure he beat Tommy Farr, whom gave Louis one helluva time, but can you really say that Farr is an all-time great?

If you say yes, your a hypocrite, because I recall how I did a thread on Tommy Farr and everybody took a shit on Farr and some other British Heavyweights---including yourself.

Yes his "come back" was phenomenal, but in truth, the Baer fight was one of the biggest crocks I have ever seen. Baer said before the fight that he felt he could take Braddock out at any time---and what did he do? He clown around for 14 rounds and in the 15th went for the KO, a bad idea in his part as Braddock's skills and iron will managed to keep him from being knocked out.

Now hadn't he stuck to the game plan of destroying Braddock from round one onward...who knows, Baer could have reigned until he met up with Joe Louis, cus I don't see that many Heavyweights from that time beating Baer, outside of Louis.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Jul 2006, 00:03

As I mentioned I believe Braddock would win this but it would be two very serious fighters with Braddock and Sullivan. Still I think boxing had progressed far enough that Braddock's knowledge would be too much for Sullivan...he would be showing him some things he hadn't seen before. IMHO.

For Baer it's always a coulda woulda shoulda story, he was having too much fun to worry about a little thing like winning. Lot's of talent but little focus.....sort of (but not completely) like today's Zab Judah....Baer could sometimes focus and he was great when he could but sometimes it was all about winking at the ladies.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 02 Jul 2006, 01:03

Sure he dropped Louis, but everybody by then knew Louis had an iffy chin

louis had a solid chin

i also think braddocks prime was when he returned to the ring in 1934 as a heavyweight up until he was knocked out by louis.

braddocks prime came when he had no hand injuries and when he beat the likes of john henry lewis and max baer. baer didnt just clown, he was outboxed. he had trouble dealing with braddocks jab

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 02 Jul 2006, 08:28

BoxBuzz wrote:As I mentioned I believe Braddock would win this but it would be two very serious fighters with Braddock and Sullivan. Still I think boxing had progressed far enough that Braddock's knowledge would be too much for Sullivan...he would be showing him some things he hadn't seen before. IMHO.

For Baer it's always a coulda woulda shoulda story, he was having too much fun to worry about a little thing like winning. Lot's of talent but little focus.....sort of (but not completely) like today's Zab Judah....Baer could sometimes focus and he was great when he could but sometimes it was all about winking at the ladies.

And more than likely John L would have shown Braddock quite a few things that he'd never seen before.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Jul 2006, 08:36

Fair enough....and correct styles were very very different.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:39

I would like to thank the 13 BOXREC members for voting (please continue your votes as we boldly venture into the next round of match-ups).

THE FIRST ROUND RESULTS

1. Jack Dempsey v. Jim Corbett.
Dempsey (12 votes) - Corbett (01 vote).
RESULT: Dempsey wins by KO round 6.

2. John L. Sullivan v. Jim Braddock.
Sullivan (07 votes) - Braddock (06 votes).
RESULT: Sullivan wins on points decision.

3. Joe Louis v. Jess Willard.
Louis (13 votes) - Willard (No votes).
RESULT: Louis wins by KO round 5.

4. Bob Fitzsimmons v. Jack Sharkey.
Fitzsimmons (09 votes) - Sharkey (04 votes).
RESULT: Fitzsimmons win by KO round 13.

5. Rocky Marciano v. Gene Tunney.
Marciano (09 votes) - Tunney (04 votes).
RESULT: Marciano wins by KO round 15.

6. Max Baer v. Jack Johnson.
Baer (01 vote) - Johnson (12 votes).
RESULT: Johnson wins by KO round 10.

7. Jim Jeffries v. Jersey Joe Walcott.
Jeffries (05 votes) - Walcott (06 votes). (Also 1 draw posted.)
RESULT: Walcott wins on points decision.

8. Muhammad Ali v. Max Schmeling.
Ali (13 votes) - Schmeling (No votes).
RESULT: Ali wins by KO round 9.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:53

I have compared OUR results to the original results, and thing have more or less went by the book. There are however, some exceptions...

1. We predicted that Jack Johnson would defeat Max Baer.

2. We predicted that Jersey Joe Walcott defeat Jim Jeffries. (Although this was hotly contested, 1 vote decided this fight)...

NOW, please proceed over to the thread called,

"All Time Heavyweight Championship. THE QUARTER FINALS

to post your opinions. ALL OPINIONS ARE RESPECTED,

Thanks again dudes...