BoxRec

Adversity wrote: Hatton would walk through Judah

This is about the dumbest thing a boxing fan can say. No fighter can "walk through" the punches of a competent opponent. If anyone would have tried to "walk through" Sven Ottkes allegedly "featherfisted" punches he would have been KOed.

I would still favour Hatton, but the Collazo performance and the closeness of the fight makes me think it is no forgone conclusion.

stujones wrote:I would still favour Hatton, but the Collazo performance and the closeness of the fight makes me think it is no forgone conclusion.

My question is that Hatton got SERIOUSLY hurt in teh 12th vs Collazo...and Judah is a bigger puncher and a faster puncher...if Hatton could weather the storm through 6, he can definitely wiin the fight widely. However, he would get hit a lot more and a lot harder by Judah than he did vs Collazo early on.

However, the Judah/Chin issue is ALWAYS there.

That List is shockingly bad.

Mattyp151 wrote:

stujones wrote:I would still favour Hatton, but the Collazo performance and the closeness of the fight makes me think it is no forgone conclusion.

My question is that Hatton got SERIOUSLY hurt in teh 12th vs Collazo...and Judah is a bigger puncher and a faster puncher...if Hatton could weather the storm through 6, he can definitely wiin the fight widely. However, he would get hit a lot more and a lot harder by Judah than he did vs Collazo early on.

However, the Judah/Chin issue is ALWAYS there.

Agree with all that, if Judah had a chin I would favour him to beat Hatton clearly. I would feel that Hatton would eventually break him down by the mid rounds - but can definately make a case for both guys.

I'm not saying this as a downer on Collazo, but it is hard too see who Hatton will have it easy against at Welter - can make strong cases for Mayweather, Judah, Spinks, Mosley, Margarito, Collazo, Cotto, Baldomir and Gatti to beat him. I'm not saying I would tip them all to beat him - but all have a case.

Max Molyneux wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Why does FLoyd even get No 1 in most ratings? Most seem think you have to beat a P4p fighter. Castillo wasn't one until recently.

Judah was coming off a loss to Baldomir and frauded America with a PPV! Gatti should never of boxed him. He's been troubled more than Joe has like with Castillo and was down Vs Judah or just as troubled.

I'd say Calzaghe is as skilled and can fight at a much faster pace for someone much bigger than FLoyd.

Since when does pace = skill? Pace and workrate merely shows what style you like to fight at and what works for you. I'm sure Floyd could go out and throw 1200 punches if he chose to, but why not put yourself in situations where you avoid getting hit, and land about 40% of your punches in return. Yeah, he could open up, land about 30%, but land more overall punches, but in return comes the chance to get hit back...boxing carries two basic principles...hit and don't get hit, he does both about as well as any can.

PS: Joe's slapping and cuffing punches show he's not even closely as skilled as Floyd. Joe has a good workrate and carries very good power, but to think he's as skilled as FLoyd is a stretch.

Calzaghe can handle pressure too unlike Floyd and can fight off the ropes. Just because he often cuffs doesn't make him less skilled. Calzaghe hardly gets hit either.

"hit once and hold" tactics as John Ruiz.

I've noticed he's doing that too.

How often does Floyd get on the ropes, and when he does, he's outta there extremely quick. You hardly ever see him get stuck, and the slightly occasional occurence is over before anything major can happen.

And cuffing and slapping is not skill...that's actually terrible punching technique. He has a great workrate and is a fantastic pressure fighter, but Joe has terrible punching techniqiue and struggles with counter punchers. That's what I look at in terms of skills. Barrera is a very technically sound fighter, evident by his fight vs Hamed. Floyd is a very skilled fighter because he gets away with a technique not many, if any, can be succesful with. Let Hatton keep his shoulder as his only defense and his left hand across his stomach and see how many jabs he eats.

As for holding...please...he throws his straight right to the body while coming in, and he tries to get as much as he can on it by following through. Bad technique, but he can get away with it...comparing him to Ruiz is a joke. John was jab, hug, jab hug, Floyd only holds when he falls into an opponent...want to stop that, hit him when he lunges in. Yet, I don't see many people doing that often to him.

Mattyp151 wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote: Since when does pace = skill? Pace and workrate merely shows what style you like to fight at and what works for you. I'm sure Floyd could go out and throw 1200 punches if he chose to, but why not put yourself in situations where you avoid getting hit, and land about 40% of your punches in return. Yeah, he could open up, land about 30%, but land more overall punches, but in return comes the chance to get hit back...boxing carries two basic principles...hit and don't get hit, he does both about as well as any can.

PS: Joe's slapping and cuffing punches show he's not even closely as skilled as Floyd. Joe has a good workrate and carries very good power, but to think he's as skilled as FLoyd is a stretch.

Calzaghe can handle pressure too unlike Floyd and can fight off the ropes. Just because he often cuffs doesn't make him less skilled. Calzaghe hardly gets hit either.

"hit once and hold" tactics as John Ruiz.

I've noticed he's doing that too.

How often does Floyd get on the ropes, and when he does, he's outta there extremely quick. You hardly ever see him get stuck, and the slightly occasional occurence is over before anything major can happen.

And cuffing and slapping is not skill...that's actually terrible punching technique. He has a great workrate and is a fantastic pressure fighter, but Joe has terrible punching techniqiue and struggles with counter punchers. That's what I look at in terms of skills. Barrera is a very technically sound fighter, evident by his fight vs Hamed. Floyd is a very skilled fighter because he gets away with a technique not many, if any, can be succesful with. Let Hatton keep his shoulder as his only defense and his left hand across his stomach and see how many jabs he eats.

As for holding...please...he throws his straight right to the body while coming in, and he tries to get as much as he can on it by following through. Bad technique, but he can get away with it...comparing him to Ruiz is a joke. John was jab, hug, jab hug, Floyd only holds when he falls into an opponent...want to stop that, hit him when he lunges in. Yet, I don't see many people doing that often to him.

ummm be careful, lacy called him a slapper too...

but to be honest, most of the time when Floyd is on the ropes, he is ther to let his opponent have the offence, and do that little jack-in-the-box head movement shit he does to make them look silly, and then goes off at will. See judah mayweather round 12. Actually calzaghe has amazing punching technique, better than taylor or hopkins any day for sure.

Let Floyd do his crappy flashy only effective against stupid fighters who wont go for the body when the head is moving tactics, and for every jab hatton eats, floyd will be aquainted with a left hook to the body.

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:[That's exactly what you're doing.

Judah is a world class talent boxer....no one questioned that. It's his mental capacity, or lack thereof, that everyone questioned. Lackluster victory hardly. He went in with one of the most skilled, not best because Judah isn't the complete package, and outboxed him over the course of the fight. He won 8-4 on most cards, 7-5 on a few. Not to mention he landed about 40% of his punches against one of the fastest men in boxing. But, because he didn't KO Judah, it's lack luster? Or because Judah took 4 rounds, it's lackluster? I'll admit, I'm one of the bigger Mayweather fans here, but I called the fight an early split, with Floyd dominating late as my predicition.

PS: Ask Jeff Lacy what power should do for you p4p rankings...the guy is still one of the hardest hitters in the game, and he wasn't on anyone's P4P and certainly isn't after the Calzaghe beating.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

You think Zab Judah would give Hatton problems?

Hatton is a far better fighter than Baldimor, and look what Baldimor was able to do.

Hatton would walk through Judah, and as soon as the first telling blows land, Judah would be on his bike quick smart. From there on it would just be a matter of time before Judah get's knocked out.

Zab Judah is not a great fighter. He can't handle getting hit.

I can't believe no ones mentioned that its obviously your website and your rankings, so obviously your going to back them up.

Judah

1. Judah is P4P top20 - he had an off night against Baldomir, who he'd easily beat in a re-match. He nearly ko'd Tyszu in the 1st, fights aren't fought on paper.

2. Judah may or maynot beat/ko Hatton,

3. Judahs 1 of the fastest hitters and hardest hitters P4P.

4. Margarito won't sign a fight with Judah - wonder why??

5. Judah has a very good resume from 140-147 and some BIG Wins.

6. I thought Judah may KO PBF

Calazage

1. He is P4P quality, but hasn't been adequately tested over the years against Elite Fighters

2. Great Speed and Volume but his defense, angles, power are below many other P4P fighters.

PBF

1. Judah, Castillo, Corrales, G HErnandez - all Elite fighters

2. Chavez, the other Hernandez, Gatti, Mitchell, Corley - all top5 belt holders in their respective divisions

3. Hatton/Cotto won't fight, Margarito is a lose lose situation

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:HA, ok, show me one person who had Floyd losing the first 5...Floyd beat Zab badly in the fifth, he clearly won the third, and gave Zab the 12th.

By your standards "most" people would have that fight a draw, and that's bullshit. Zab gassed out in the 4th after hit caught Floyd with a straight left and tried to follow up with about 8 hooks that hit nothing but gloves. After that moment in the 4th, Judah never fought for 3 minutes the rest of the fight. Bullshit insight on that fight from you...nice try.

Well Kostya Tszyu had Mayweather losing the 1st four rounds.

http://www.boxingbanter.com/viewnews.php?p=40977#40977

I'm not saying that Mayweather is shite, I'm just saying that a lot of people watch Mayweather fights with blinkers on.

Remember this is Zab Judah we're talking about here, Zab f**kin' Judah. I'm pretty confident that Zab Judah would not have lasted the distance P4P against some of the other fighters in the top 10 of that P4P list.

Zab Judah is not a great fighter, in fact when he did step up to World class he got flattened in less than 2 rounds against Tszyu. Mayweather was not even close to achieving anything like that when they fought.

You also may want to learn to read. He said Judah gave Floyd trouble in the first 4, but nowhere did he say Judah won the first four. Also, he said it was one of Floyd's best wins, and you call it lackluster....so it's ok to use his comments as an example when they agree, but you leave out what he says when it kills your argument...

PS: sweet p4p list...the number 1, 2, or at worst 3 fighter in the world you have at 5...what a farce.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
1. Judah is P4P top20 - he had an off night against Baldomir, who he'd easily beat in a re-match. He nearly ko'd Tyszu in the 1st, fights aren't fought on paper.

C'mon that's bit of a stretch, I remember him landing a good few shots then Tyszu retreating back to ropes then tying up. Didn't come close to going down though.

5. Judah has a very good resume from 140-147 and some BIG Wins.

1 BIG win, Spinks.

pundit wrote:

Adversity wrote: Hatton would walk through Judah

This is about the dumbest thing a boxing fan can say. No fighter can "walk through" the punches of a competent opponent. If anyone would have tried to "walk through" Sven Ottkes allegedly "featherfisted" punches he would have been KOed.

Rather than read the whole post, you picked five words out of a paragraph, and then manage to take them completely out of context so you can twist it into an insult... Forget the whole post, how about you actually just read the rest of the paragraph before throwing the insults.

You're not supposed to take, "Hatton would walk through Judah" literally!... It's a boxing expression used to describe how a fighter like Judah would not be able to hold off a fighter like Hatton's attacks.

lvlarc_uk wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
1. Judah is P4P top20 - he had an off night against Baldomir, who he'd easily beat in a re-match. He nearly ko'd Tyszu in the 1st, fights aren't fought on paper.

C'mon that's bit of a stretch, I remember him landing a good few shots then Tyszu retreating back to ropes then tying up. Didn't come close to going down though.

5. Judah has a very good resume from 140-147 and some BIG Wins.

1 BIG win, Spinks.

Spinks, Witter, Corley, Ward, Reggie Green, Millet all decent champs or contenders and all good wins.

It may be a bit of a stretch but Tyszu was wobbled and beat up in the first.

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:Mayweather doesn't carry the power Tszyu does, so that's moot. Mayweather isn't a KO guy, he looks to outbox. And the statement Zab wouldn't last against anyone else in that shitty list is dumb...how many fight at 147? Hatton and Mayweather are it...and with the way Hatton looked against Collazo...guess what, a fast, southpaw at 147, I'd say Judah would trouble Ricky quite a bit.

Mayweather not having any power is definitely something you have to consider when rating him.

And talking up Zab Judah as World class fighter to try and add weight to Mayweather's lack lustre victory is not incredibly realistic in my eyes.

If we forget everything else, your P4P best fighter in the World just dragged out a close points victory over a fighter that has been demolished in 2 before, and was not only coming off a lose, he has been exposed before several times.

The P4P No.1 is supposed to be the best fighter in the World. Best fighters in the World are usually a little bit better than that.

I'm not trying to discredit Floyd Mayweather, I'm just a little surprised that people see him the way they do, when I've not seen anything that particularly impresses me.

1) Power isn't a significant factor in making a p4p list imo. This is boxing and the list is for the best BOXERS and not the most adequate at knocking people out.

2) You under rate Judah and it seems as you think every fighter is at the same form for each fight. I believe Judah fought better against mayweather than baldomir.

3) Mayweather exposed? lol Furthermore, look at who he has fought, things are not so black and white as you make out.

4) Bit better than mayweather? It's funny how people seem to think that the best fighters in the world have to be better than mayweather. You get in the ring and fight, you'll see that mayweather is one of the best fighters in the world if not THE best.

5) Maybe you are not looking to be impressed, it seems as if you going in there with a negative opinion and picking out the worse bits and trying to amplify them whilst discrediting every positive bit mayweather has in boxing.