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Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 11:50
by WayoftheCass
Terence wrote:I was there for British Boxing.net (report should be up) and firstly it was fooking roasting in there, I felt like dipping my feet in the ice-buckets.
Haye did disappoint but in his last two fights there has been a certain method and it seems he is changing his style to ensure that the Thompson fight is not repeated. Most of us could go 36 minutes on a heavy bag as the fact the bag is stationary means less movement even if you move around it, throw in the heat ring lights and the opponent and it is natural Haye will be wary of his first 12 rounds. He now knows he can do it in an easy fight (something I feel he was unsure about, and you can't take that into a title fight) so now he can find out if he can do it in a hard fight, it is about building yourself up. If you do a ten mile run you are going to be knackered the first time and will do it slowly but at least you find out you can do it and how comfortable you feel.
Watching the fight I thought it would go from jabs early, then onto 1-2's, then onto combos and then a few rounds of concerted effort to finish but it didn't happen that way. At first it looked like he was building things up but in retrospect it seems he was just seeing what a real 12 rounds is like.
It wasn't the most outrageous thing I've ever seen. His movement is good and even when he doesn't do much you can see the quality. Down the line we may see him in a hard 12 rounds but should he be having hard rounds at this level? I'd say no.
As for the booing, fair enough if you've paid your money to watch a show but on the other hand undercards are there to provide a mixture. Many who paid will be boxing fans and got to see some good boxing. Some will have paid specifically for Haye and if they are Haye fans they'll forgive him as soon as he gets another KO. Haye had to go 12 some time and better to do it now instead of in a big fight.
I'd rather have this, quiet main event and a decent card, than some of the cards I've seen where the main is short-lived and the undercard dire.
Sorry Terrence. But no one is paying for the undercard. On top of that the undercard didn't have one competitive fight on it. Just Jamie Moore bashing up a typical Belgian import and young novices cleaning the clocks of guys who can't master the basics.
FACT is that Haye could have done much more and that is by his own admission. That fight does absolutely nothing for him. The excuses of the heat and the lights and all of that shit. If he can't cope with it here then he is in deep shit when he goes to the States. Boxing at a pro level and at so called championship level is meant to be entertaining. Okay the guy didn't want to fight which on hindsight was predictable so Maloney catches hell for that. But Haye offered virtually nothing. Not even in the last round. He was in with a worm body and carried him. It was terrible to watch, has already resulted in most fans becoming deeply suspicious of Haye's attitude and ability and has put Joe Public off waisting his hard earned cash.
The whole exercise could have been performed in a gym. Crank up the lights and the heat, take off the head guards and let the other fighters watch you.
Added to that he had a 17% accuracy and landed 71 punches over twelve rounds. Thats pathetic and it puts into perspective how bad the guy in the opposite corner is.
Maloney's reaction at ringside and rather patheric attempt to seem pleased after it tells its own story. The one time promoter's dream is becoming a PR nightmare.
He calls press conferences to tell the British public he may move up to Heavyweight like its going to change our lives. Problems i that most people either say 'Who is that guy?' or 'Isn't that the guy who got his arse kicked by a 40 year old?'
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 12:01
by silkov
WayoftheCass wrote:Terence wrote:I was there for British Boxing.net (report should be up) and firstly it was fooking roasting in there, I felt like dipping my feet in the ice-buckets.
Haye did disappoint but in his last two fights there has been a certain method and it seems he is changing his style to ensure that the Thompson fight is not repeated. Most of us could go 36 minutes on a heavy bag as the fact the bag is stationary means less movement even if you move around it, throw in the heat ring lights and the opponent and it is natural Haye will be wary of his first 12 rounds. He now knows he can do it in an easy fight (something I feel he was unsure about, and you can't take that into a title fight) so now he can find out if he can do it in a hard fight, it is about building yourself up. If you do a ten mile run you are going to be knackered the first time and will do it slowly but at least you find out you can do it and how comfortable you feel.
Watching the fight I thought it would go from jabs early, then onto 1-2's, then onto combos and then a few rounds of concerted effort to finish but it didn't happen that way. At first it looked like he was building things up but in retrospect it seems he was just seeing what a real 12 rounds is like.
It wasn't the most outrageous thing I've ever seen. His movement is good and even when he doesn't do much you can see the quality. Down the line we may see him in a hard 12 rounds but should he be having hard rounds at this level? I'd say no.
As for the booing, fair enough if you've paid your money to watch a show but on the other hand undercards are there to provide a mixture. Many who paid will be boxing fans and got to see some good boxing. Some will have paid specifically for Haye and if they are Haye fans they'll forgive him as soon as he gets another KO. Haye had to go 12 some time and better to do it now instead of in a big fight.
I'd rather have this, quiet main event and a decent card, than some of the cards I've seen where the main is short-lived and the undercard dire.
Sorry Terrence. But no one is paying for the undercard. On top of that the undercard didn't have one competitive fight on it. Just Jamie Moore bashing up a typical Belgian import and young novices cleaning the clocks of guys who can't master the basics.
FACT is that Haye could have done much more and that is by his own admission. That fight does absolutely nothing for him. The excuses of the heat and the lights and all of that shit. If he can't cope with it here then he is in deep shit when he goes to the States. Boxing at a pro level and at so called championship level is meant to be entertaining. Okay the guy didn't want to fight which on hindsight was predictable so Maloney catches hell for that. But Haye offered virtually nothing. Not even in the last round. He was in with a worm body and carried him. It was terrible to watch, has already resulted in most fans becoming deeply suspicious of Haye's attitude and ability and has put Joe Public off waisting his hard earned cash.
The whole exercise could have been performed in a gym. Crank up the lights and the heat, take off the head guards and let the other fighters watch you.
Added to that he had a 17% accuracy and landed 71 punches over twelve rounds. Thats pathetic and it puts into perspective how bad the guy in the opposite corner is.
Maloney's reaction at ringside and rather patheric attempt to seem pleased after it tells its own story. The one time promoter's dream is becoming a PR nightmare.
He calls press conferences to tell the British public he may move up to Heavyweight like its going to change our lives. Problems i that most people either say 'Who is that guy?' or 'Isn't that the guy who got his arse kicked by a 40 year old?'
Hayes protestations of being a heavyweight are very dubious, if he cant sustain action against men his own size then how will he do against fighters who will probably be 20 to 30 pounds heavier than him?. Also Haye hasnt the best of chins and heavyweights will be hitting him much harder than nay of the cruiserweights he has faced so far.
All in all Haye is showing all the sighns of believing his own publicity, which is fine if you deliver in the ring but Haye hasnt done that... in fact he shows all the signs of a on coming derailment which is not helped by a corner that doesnt seem to have a clue what is going on... if Booth really thinks Haye was perfect the other night then he's in the wrong job...
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 12:23
by Bard of Boxrec
You guys are incredible.
We've seen exactly the same scenarios in recent times with Calzaghe and Hatton battling to unimpressive decision wins against negative opponents Jimenez and Vilches. Hell, Calzaghe's has his share of stinkers yet now he is universally hailed by all of you as if the years of crappy matchmaking never happened. Difference here is Haye actually has the hunger to aim at the top guys without having to be dragged into the ring kicking and screaming by a rival and his promoter.
No doubt if Haye goes on to detonate Bell this fight and all of your hystrionics will be swept under the carpet as usual.
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 12:34
by Neri
That was terrible. haye could have tried alot harder. he averaged out 6 punches landed a round. Most being jabs. Ok with a WBC title fight in sight, it would be stupid to take too many risks but that was a joke.
Pleasing the fans should be high on the agenda, not just getting a title shot or lining their own pockets.
I think Haye would be destroyed by Bell and beaten by Enzo. They will make him work alot harder. Pressure him to fight for every round, and Haye will be gassed again.
I don't pay for sky sports to see David Haye having a spar.
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 13:32
by lvlarc
There's no excusing that dire performance. Adapting styles? Well if he goes into a big fight with any of the champions at 200, or Heavy with that workrate, he will get beat....again.
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 14:55
by mrbassie
I'm watching this right now (4th round so far), don't really see what all the fuss is about. Every Hopkins fight was as dull as this, every Roy Jones fight in recent memory was as dull as this and they're ppv (anyone remember Hopkins versus Jones? Worst fight I've ever seen), Lewis had fights every bit as dull as this, so did Muhammad Ali-it doesn't mean either of them would be battered senseless by Enzo Mac.
Haye's a young fighter still developing and he tried out something new.
Everybody was whinging about how reckless he was and now are complaining about the exact opposite.
If nothing else he's proved now that he can keep his head for 12 rounds and not go right hand crazy.
Abdul was obviously waitng behind his guard for Haye to punch himself out and Haye was smart to it. If there were more punches coming at Haye I'm sure you'd have seen more counters.
I'm not trying to be an apologist, I just think everybody's going a bit overboard
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 15:13
by stujones
Riddick Blowe wrote:You guys are incredible.
We've seen exactly the same scenarios in recent times with Calzaghe and Hatton battling to unimpressive decision wins against negative opponents Jimenez and Vilches. Hell, Calzaghe's has his share of stinkers yet now he is universally hailed by all of you as if the years of crappy matchmaking never happened. Difference here is Haye actually has the hunger to aim at the top guys without having to be dragged into the ring kicking and screaming by a rival and his promoter.
No doubt if Haye goes on to detonate Bell this fight and all of your hystrionics will be swept under the carpet as usual.
The Jimenez and especially the Vilches fights were like Ali vs Frazier compared to the last fight.... Also, clearly there was something up with Hatton that night - hurling up all the time and it seemed like he wanted to quit at some stage. Didn't Calzaghe hurt his hand vs Jimenez also - he did vs Ashira, another bore fest.
Had Ricky been able to KO Vilches I'm sure he would have, and Joe learned pretty quickly he wasn't going to KO Jimenez.... Thats a difference between those fights and Haye's last night. If they had a rematch, I still wouldn't be dead sure to say Haye on points cause we, nor Haye, ever learned if he had to power to stop Abdoul - cause FROM THE WORD GO RIGHT THROUGHOUT, he didn't try to let go any punches. Calzaghe and Hatton did for small periods of their fights - and it was enough for them to know... "this is going long".
Always think the "he's got to do rounds" is the biggest pile of crap I have ever heard from an active boxer - not saying Haye specifically but any active boxer. It is slightly different for a fighter who has been inactive and needs to shake of the rust - but Haye fought a few months back and it went 8 rounds. Lloyd Honeyghun was oh so right in saying "you don't get paid for overtime" - Anthony Small jokes about it, but would a fighter seriously tell a ref "oh, don't stop the fight.... he's not hurt and I need to do the rounds" - no they wouldn't.
It an excuse that Audley Harrison always used and look where he is.
As for the temperature, yes its a fair cop it looked absolutely piping, but do you think it is any hotter than in the Las Vegas heat if Haye meets Bell in Vegas at that time of year? Remember McGuigan.
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 18:13
by silkov
Riddick Blowe wrote:You guys are incredible.
We've seen exactly the same scenarios in recent times with Calzaghe and Hatton battling to unimpressive decision wins against negative opponents Jimenez and Vilches. Hell, Calzaghe's has his share of stinkers yet now he is universally hailed by all of you as if the years of crappy matchmaking never happened. Difference here is Haye actually has the hunger to aim at the top guys without having to be dragged into the ring kicking and screaming by a rival and his promoter.
No doubt if Haye goes on to detonate Bell this fight and all of your hystrionics will be swept under the carpet as usual.
Rubbish! I have never seen either Calzaghe or Hatton put in a performance like Haye did the other night, and God knows I've criticised both of them in the past. Calzaghe threw about 3 times as many punches when he was fighting with a badly broken hand a couple of fights back. If Haye goes on to beat Bell then there would still be a question of why he did not put more effort into the fight last night. Going 12 rounds is meaningless if you are throwing hardly any punches.
I am pretty sure that Haye will not beat Bell.... not that Bell is anything really special but he will be too tough and have too much heart for Haye.
I think Hayes whole set up is totally flawed and he is overrated not only by himself but by his team as well....
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 20:50
by WayoftheCass
mrbassie wrote:I'm watching this right now (4th round so far), don't really see what all the fuss is about. Every Hopkins fight was as dull as this, every Roy Jones fight in recent memory was as dull as this and they're ppv (anyone remember Hopkins versus Jones? Worst fight I've ever seen), Lewis had fights every bit as dull as this, so did Muhammad Ali-it doesn't mean either of them would be battered senseless by Enzo Mac.
Haye's a young fighter still developing and he tried out something new.
Everybody was whinging about how reckless he was and now are complaining about the exact opposite.
If nothing else he's proved now that he can keep his head for 12 rounds and not go right hand crazy.
Abdul was obviously waitng behind his guard for Haye to punch himself out and Haye was smart to it. If there were more punches coming at Haye I'm sure you'd have seen more counters.
I'm not trying to be an apologist, I just think everybody's going a bit overboard
I have always found Hopkins to be boring as sin. I went to Vegas last summer for his first bout with Taylor and couldn't understand the yanks who were going crazy about him getting beat. He did hee-haw for 8 rounds and then lands a couple of counters in the last 4 and calls it a masterclass
Indeed I was pretty much abused from pillar to post for daring to say I was glad he was retiring on the General Board.
What got me was Haye's post fight interview. he didn't hold his hands up and say "Hey I was poor tonight. I got stuck in a rut, over trained, hurt my hand,fought to his level" Nah he has that big f*ckin smile on his napper and actually boasts that he carried the guy, could have done more but didn't want to, only threw 3 right hands per round on purpose and actually wanted us to believe that being involved in a snoozer which drove people from the arena in droves and has led to far more questions than answers was all his big master-plan. I say thats bollocks and him and Adam Booth have nothing to be proud of.
To add insult to injury Maloney sits at ringside all night in full view of the cameras wearing an expression and nodding his head like he's at his wife's funeral and then comes on the cameras after and claims he's happy with how it all went. I mean come on Frank. Don't bullshit a bullshitter.
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 21:03
by yiddo14
The funniest thing about the post fight interview was when Haye said he felt like Lennox Lewis versus David Tua!!!
He said he felt like he landed a 100 jabs a round...errr,David,you didnt land a 100 punches in the WHOLE FIGHT!!!
Was a poor display in all.
Did anyone else hear his trainers comments about Haye taking it easy because he did'nt want to punch himself out?
That in itself has to question his stamina.
Another thing,I think Haye is more bothered about TV appearances and modelling work than he EVER will be about boxing.
Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 21:11
by WayoftheCass
yiddo14 wrote:The funniest thing about the post fight interview was when Haye said he felt like Lennox Lewis versus David Tua!!!
He said he felt like he landed a 100 jabs a round...errr,David,you didnt land a 100 punches in the WHOLE FIGHT!!!
Was a poor display in all.
Did anyone else hear his trainers comments about Haye taking it easy because he did'nt want to punch himself out?
That in itself has to question his stamina.
Another thing,I think Haye is more bothered about TV appearances and modelling work than he EVER will be about boxing.
Yes i did note that. He actually had a 17% accuracy for the whole fight and only landed 71 punches in total for the fight. Haye is obviously deluded if he thinks Abdoul represents a similar threat to Tua who wasn't great but could knock you out with one shot.
Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 00:06
by states
I'm increasingly reminded of Johnny Nelson's comments: 'Does he love the game, or does he love the fame?'
I'm not going to deny that Haye is talented. But for me, I think he's more impressed with telling birds on Miami beach that he's a boxer, as opposed to actually being a boxer. And Adam Booth impresses me less and less with every fight.
I've long championed Maccarinelli as having the beating of Haye. I couldn't be more convinced of it now. Enzo Calzaghe is going to be making Maccarinelli work, Booth seems to be saying "how high David?"
Posted: 23 Jul 2006, 01:41
by jeej
Before the fight there was no talk of "going 12 rounds" from Haye. He actually said that this chap would be a good test, but he then bragged about being an explosive fighter with a big punch and would most definitely be looking to knock the guy out.