Terence wrote: Forced conversions:
In Persia: The Jews were forced to convert by a series of discriminatory laws applied over the course of two centuries. They suffered from the restrictions laid down by OMAR, and were excluded from public office. Having no representation in government, unable to build any new schools or synagogues, subject to special taxes and occasional outbursts of religious violence -- the peasant community largely converted by the end of the 9th century. Because of heavy taxation on cultivated land, a unique change occurred in the Jewish community. For the first time a small minority of Jews left agriculture and concentrated in the larger towns, especially Baghdad, Basra and Mosul where they became traders and craftsmen. The peasants, however, intermarried and became the core of what we call today "The Kurds".
You wrote this E.
So, yes if you like Mohammed allowed Jews and Christians to live in 'his' state; but only if they were happy to live as second class citizens an pay extortionate taxes. (hmmm sounds like discriminatory apartheid to me; but no doubt that is acceptable to you as long as it is imposed by your 'civilized and cultured' muslims.) And why do you refer to Mohammed as 'The Prophet?" to 5 billion humans he is nothing of the sort.
You also wrote this.
The crusades were a direct response to Muslim aggression—an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt—once the most heavily Christian areas in the world were conquered by Muslim armies. In brief, by the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul.
Then strangely you wrote this.
?????? Why do you keep bringing examples of Christian wrong-doing as a defence to Muslim wrong doing? One wrong does not justify another. I am irreligious and am against all religious bigotry and primitive belief. But it is not the Amish, the Sikh, the Hindu, the Jewish, the animist etc tec who wishes to destroy my way of life and freedoms.
Why do you keep throwing up, wrongly sourced, examples of Islamic aggression to defend Western wrong-doing?
I could point out more contradictions but I think you have already established that you a hypocrite.
Zionists are not trying to kill me, my family and friends
E Zionists are not trying to kill you right? So I am to assume you have no Arab friends who at this moment in time are being killed, or attempting to be killed by Israel? If you did what would your position be? Don't be so one-dimensional, the effects of the Zionist actions are playing a part in the threat (largely exaggerated) to your family, it is the ripple effect. On that subject your family, one would presume, are fairly safe. On the other hand how many Arabs will die today in Iraq and Lebanon. Look at how vitriolic you become at the idea of a shadowy threat, imagine what you would do if the threat was real. Intellectually you are a reactionary, so I dread to think what you would do if you was Lebanese or, god forbid, a Palestinian. You want revenge based on threat, what revenge would you take based on action E. You are also trying to make this emotive, another shallow tactic.
Forced conversions in Iran in the 9th century eh E? Isn't it true that the greatest persecution of Jews in that area occurred under Zoroastrianism (which is now studenty hippy-dippy trip)? Why is there still a large number of JEWS (not Zionists and not Muslims) living in Iran and practising as Jews by following Judaism? Why are you going so far back to find persecution? A tenet of Islam is that other faiths pay reparations, however the fact they are not Muslim means they do not pay Zakat, maybe the other tax is a means of bridging that gap without forcing conversion. Do you dispute that Jews, Christians and, mostly, Muslims turned Iraq into a centre of education for the whole world? Where has that knowledge gone now?
You talk about conversion in remote areas of Indonesia and neglect to mention that this stems from a incident between two individuals and the broader Muslim population played a part in trying to help curtail the problem and that part of the problem is not a Muslim agenda but a desire for independence in certain regions. You also forget to mention that some of the so-called forced conversion is hyped up by Christian missionaries and stems from the fact that under Indonesian law marriage entails conversion by one of the parties to the recognised religions, which include Islam AND Christianity.
If you know the Koran so well show these scriptures and let someone who really reads the book show that you are bending them to your perspective (which I will do provisionally shortly and fully when I am at home). Show the passages. I told you about the conversion tax. Some of what you are saying is actually a mis-reading of Shariah law, do you now suppose all of the Shariah is found in that book.
And why do you refer to Mohammed as 'The Prophet?" to 5 billion humans he is nothing of the sort.
I refer to Mohammed as The Prophet, you refuse to do so, I also (and all Muslims by word of the Koran do so) recognise the claims for Jesus even though I am not religious. You do not recognise Mohammed, nor do the West in general and many Christians fail to do so, yet Muslims do not renounce Christ, they embrace him, hardly a sign of intolerance is it. In fact your stated refusal to recognise Mohammed speaks of your conceit. In the Koran the other religions are explicitly referred to as fellow people of the books.
as I understand; Iraq and Afghanistan. (oh and neither of which I support)
As opposed to the following involving Islam;
Kashmir/India
UK
USA
Spain
(and in fact could hypothetically include any western nation, though attacks may not yet have happened)
Sudan
Nigeria
Ivory Coast
East Timor
Kurdistan
Philippines
Uganda
Palestine/Israel
Chechenya
In the other places, scratching Israel as we caused that, Uganda has seen Muslims as the victims since the 1970's and they actually tried to put space between them and the murderous non-Islamic regimes. In fact scratch the African areas off as it is a truism that Islam took off in Africa due to the cultural similarities and Africa accepted it after years of Christianity trying to destroy the tribal influences. Islam is a tribal religion and is like wildfire in Africa, conflict is stirred up by Western involvement and interference. A fried of mine was a Christian, Nigerian, and his take on a lot of the problems there is that a mixture of tribal cultism and Islam has led to cults who have a mystic take and then started attacking orthodox Mosques. It was violence against Muslims and the backlash against the Miss Word contest was a case of trying to force Western ideals on a country who have a very large and mixed religious population. Amir Khan was a arrested in Bolton for dangerous driving, perhaps you need to add Bolton to that list? Oh and check out the genocide of Muslims, in
Chechnya. I think the Russians did a lot of bad there.
Do yo know what a conflict is? It is not an isolated attack every few years so scratch Spain, the UK, the USA, scrub Palestine and Israel as we caused that one (unless you want to discuss the US bombs being sent over there and return back to the cause of that conflict).
Of course Muslims want Shariah courts, it is a tenet of Islam, please learn about something before you judge it. Shariah also incorporates a respect for the host nations laws by its own law, Shariah courts would be almost feudal based courts involving small numbers. For Shariah read community morality, an area where we lack.
Muslims think the world belongs to Allah and everyone should be a Muslim in their 'ideal' world.
Actually in Islam Allah has no physical manifestation and cannot own anything. In fact it not dissimilar to Buddha Nature and as a consequence it advocates respect for the Earth and its inhabitants. Allah does not own the Earth. Plus in Islam the other faiths are seen as one interpretation of the monistic faith. Christians are tolerated as misguided but people of the book.
James repelled you about the Crusades and there is little to add but this. A Crusade, by its very definition, is sent over seas so how can it defend against aggression. Christianity flourished in Europe, in the East it was a minority and an accepted one at that. Why do you think they had Muslim aid in preserving the Christian texts? Because Jesus is considered a Muslim Prophet.
I will look at the so-called Koranic snippets. I said Nick Griffin because interestingly he was filmed reading similar excerpts and it turned out he gleaned them from the web and they were erroneous translations based on a wartime Koran wrongly interpreted. Like all those who say that Islamic paradise is a place with Allah and all the rest. Actually it is an oasis in a dry place that is promised, think about it, it is a desert religion.
