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Corrie Sanders was on my short list of like 230 fighters, but didn't make the final hundred. Thanks.

The best part of the list, is that none of them qualify as great. Though some are pretty good, none are great.

Tyrone Everett should have been an all-time great. The bout with Escalera was as stinky as it gets.

Thougt about doing a list of left-handed fighters who fought orthodox due to being avoided? i.e Joe Frazier.

Over time if I get round it, I'll probably have to do some revising. I think Daniel Santos is a pretty good fighter (and I'll bet Borinken agrees) he's got titles in two weight classes, has beaten some good fighters, all though his best win came in somewhat controversial fashion. Maybe you're right though, with just 30 wins, he could be a bit high. Personally I question myself for not ranking Chris Byrd even lower, since he's gotten some lucky breaks in his career, but I quickly realise I've got to give him some credit for always having to fight bigger, stronger opponents.

I had Tyrone Everett on my list of around 230 and considered him, but again it's quite possible I was wrong in ommitting him. I remember watching him a couple times on televised fights on Sat afternoons, possibly even the Goss fight, but I'm not sure. If he was robbed against Escalera, then obviously he should have been 37-0 when he met his untimely death. Ok, he definitely deserves more consideration.

Thanks Ringsider, saying some of those guys were pretty good is probably the biggest compliment you've ever paid to a southpaw.

I wonder if this thread was started to rile up Ringsider

A couple more that I thought of who are not listed:


Jackie Paterson
George Nichols
Danny Kramer
Mike Schrek
Al McCoy
Juan Zurita
Jimmy Carruthers
Sandro Lopopolo


A couple of other southpaws who might make the list in a couple of years from now...Edwin Valero and Daniel Ponce De Leon.

Seamus wrote:Barry

I considered KO Chaney, but what finally dissuaded me from picking him was the fact that he fought alot of top fighters, but almost always lost to them. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Martin

Here's the problem I don't understand, Lausse would easily have been on the list, but Box Rec DOES NOT list him as a Southpaw. You also referred to Fighting Harada as a Southpaw in another thread. I'm a little confused.

Ambling Alp

I'm sure most of the Brits will agree with me, but I don't see Calzaghe's competition as being that bad, and when I've watched him, I always seem to see a guy with great handspeed who dominates against his opposition. Zero losses also helped me rank him high.

Seamus,
now, I'm a little confused, too: in the Ring Record Book of 1969, Masahiko (Fighting) Harada is listed between the southpaws champions, but in the 1978 edition of the same book, Harada isn't in the list (what happened? Harada, was or not a southpaw?

Jose Carattoli was the greatest light heavy of Argentina; between others, he beat Tommy Loughran.

Eduardo Lausse was a southpaw; his nickname was "Zurdo" (southpaw).

Atilio Caraune was a great and until today nearly unknown fighter; he KO'ed Kid Azteca, win the vacant Argentinian light heavy title knocking out the unbeaten and former Olympic Silver Medalist Antonio Pacenza and scored more than twenty consecutive knock out wins

Thanks for your attention! Your list is excellent!

He clearly beat Vitali according to the rules of the game I agree Decagon....but I don't think you meant to gloss over the very relevant mitigating circumstances surrounding that "win".

>>>Vitali injured his shoulder because he had trouble hitting Byrd. If it was so much of a freak injury, then how come some of Byrd's subsequent opponents suffered similar injuries, like Evander Holyfield and DaVarryl Williamson?<<<

The last three, or four rounds before he quit Vitali was taking some solid shots from Byrd and was being shaken more and more by each solid punch that landed and the last round before he quit, Byrd looked as though he was going to stop Vitali, which I thinkVitali sensed as well hence his giving up.

Byrd won the fight fair and square and the only mitigating circumstances was that Vitali was leading on points before he was stopped, bu the thing is...a lot of fighters are often leading on points and then they get stopped, but other than the Vitali fans who wish he was more of a fighter than he actually was, no one elese makes any arguments about a certain fighter getting stopped while leading on the cards...it's is always just stated as a stoppage win for the other fighter and Byrd stoppage over Vitali should be looked at just the same!

Interesting...and your both in agreement.....You don't think the rotator cuff injury changed the outcome? That's bucking popular sentiment on that fight in a big way.

Most of us swallowed that particular pill just as the Dr prescribed us to do.

Barry

Paterson, Zurita and Lopopolo aren't listed as southpaws on BoxRec, but probably deserve to be top 100. Nichols, Kramer, McCoy and Carruthers were on my preliminary list of over 200. Mike Schreck I just plain missed, and he may well be top hundred material as well.

Martin

Carattoli was on my initial list, but Lausse is probably top 30 easily. If Harada was a southpaw, than obviously he's got to be high also.

Seamus wrote:Over time if I get round it, I'll probably have to do some revising. I think Daniel Santos is a pretty good fighter (and I'll bet Borinken agrees) he's got titles in two weight classes, has beaten some good fighters, all though his best win came in somewhat controversial fashion. Maybe you're right though, with just 30 wins, he could be a bit high. Personally I question myself for not ranking Chris Byrd even lower, since he's gotten some lucky breaks in his career, but I quickly realise I've got to give him some credit for always having to fight bigger, stronger opponents.

I had Tyrone Everett on my list of around 230 and considered him, but again it's quite possible I was wrong in ommitting him. I remember watching him a couple times on televised fights on Sat afternoons, possibly even the Goss fight, but I'm not sure. If he was robbed against Escalera, then obviously he should have been 37-0 when he met his untimely death. Ok, he definitely deserves more consideration.

Thanks Ringsider, saying some of those guys were pretty good is probably the biggest compliment you've ever paid to a southpaw.

How did you know that?
As much as I hate to agree with Decagon I have to give him this one, although I wouldn’t put Bird ahead of him. I think Camacho is a little high and Calderon when everything is set and done should be higher. And I would put Winky ahead of Vasquez even though he lost to him, but after that fight Winky became a much better fighter and has accomplished more than Vasquez. In head to head Vasquez because he owns the win, but in accomplishment Winky should be ahead of him. Great list and keep up the good work, I think we all appreciated.

Seamus wrote:Barry

Paterson, Zurita and Lopopolo aren't listed as southpaws on BoxRec, but probably deserve to be top 100. Nichols, Kramer, McCoy and Carruthers were on my preliminary list of over 200. Mike Schreck I just plain missed, and he may well be top hundred material as well.

Martin

Carattoli was on my initial list, but Lausse is probably top 30 easily. If Harada was a southpaw, than obviously he's got to be high also.

Seamus,

thanks to Nippon Man correct information, really, the great Masahiko "Fighting" Harada was orthodox. May Carattoli and Lausse return to your very good list?

I insists in this notable southpaw: the Light Heavyweight Atilio Caraune

:)

Wright behind Calzaghe? How many unified title fights has Calzaghe been in?

Martin

Eduardo Lausse will definitely be high on my list whenever I get around to making some needed changes, and he seriously deserves more recognition. 17 1st round KO's, not to mention wins over Kid Gavilan,Gene Fullmer, who he decked, Antonio Cuevas, Mario Diaz, Chico Varona, Antonio Diaz, Ralph "Tiger" Jones, Ubaldo Sacco Sr, and Andres Selpa, who later fought Carlos Monzon to a draw.

Jose Carattoli, might take more convincing. He went 35-5-5, but what other big wins does he have besides his decision win over Tommy Loughran ? Atilio Caraune was probably an oversight on my part.

As, for the rest, assuming Barry's correct, and I'm not doubting him, then Jackie Patterson, Juan Zurita and Sandro Lopopolo, definitely deserve ranking along with Tyrone Everett and Mike Schreck.

Matty

I was more influenced by Calzaghe's zero losses, along with the way he beat Jeff Lacy(who I believe is a future champion) like a rented redheaded stepchild.

Seamus wrote:Martin

Eduardo Lausse will definitely be high on my list whenever I get around to making some needed changes, and he seriously deserves more recognition. 17 1st round KO's, not to mention wins over Kid Gavilan,Gene Fullmer, who he decked, Antonio Cuevas, Mario Diaz, Chico Varona, Antonio Diaz, Ralph "Tiger" Jones, Ubaldo Sacco Sr, and Andres Selpa, who later fought Carlos Monzon to a draw.

Jose Carattoli, might take more convincing. He went 35-5-5, but what other big wins does he have besides his decision win over Tommy Loughran ? Atilio Caraune was probably an oversight on my part.

As, for the rest, assuming Barry's correct, and I'm not doubting him, then Jackie Patterson, Juan Zurita and Sandro Lopopolo, definitely deserve ranking along with Tyrone Everett and Mike Schreck.

Matty

I was more influenced by Calzaghe's zero losses, along with the way he beat Jeff Lacy(who I believe is a future champion) like a rented redheaded stepchild.

Kinda of like how Wright shutout Trinidad, and he also put in on Mosley the first time around pretty damn good, and a case can be made he beat Taylor recently...all whom are better than lacy on their worst days?

Seamus wrote:Martin

Eduardo Lausse will definitely be high on my list whenever I get around to making some needed changes, and he seriously deserves more recognition. 17 1st round KO's, not to mention wins over Kid Gavilan,Gene Fullmer, who he decked, Antonio Cuevas, Mario Diaz, Chico Varona, Antonio Diaz, Ralph "Tiger" Jones, Ubaldo Sacco Sr, and Andres Selpa, who later fought Carlos Monzon to a draw.

Jose Carattoli, might take more convincing. He went 35-5-5, but what other big wins does he have besides his decision win over Tommy Loughran ? Atilio Caraune was probably an oversight on my part.

As, for the rest, assuming Barry's correct, and I'm not doubting him, then Jackie Patterson, Juan Zurita and Sandro Lopopolo, definitely deserve ranking along with Tyrone Everett and Mike Schreck.

Matty

I was more influenced by Calzaghe's zero losses, along with the way he beat Jeff Lacy(who I believe is a future champion) like a rented redheaded stepchild.

Seamus,
Here is a little text on Jose Carattoli

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48801






A CENTURY OF JOSÉ CARATTOLI


Boxing Record Archive Forum Index -> Boxers of the past
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Martin Sosa Cameron
Editor



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Cordoba, Argentina
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: A CENTURY OF JOSÉ CARATTOLI

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A CENTURY OF JOSÉ CARATTOLI




http://www.boxrec.com/media/images/3/36 ... i.Jose.jpg





José Domingo Carattoli born in La Plata, BA, Argentina, in September 30, 1906. He was the first Latinamerican Light Heavyweight who had the stature of World Champion, and, with the exception of Jorge Ahumada against Bob Foster, none other Argentinian faced and defeated the rivals of the hierarchy that Carattoli did.

The pro career of José Carattoli was from 1928 to 1936. He was Argentinian Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight Champion. Paradoxically, his left hand, the most powerful acquaintance in the Argentinian pugilism, not only furnished his way to the sporting greatness: too, fractured twice, forced him to a premature retirement, when he was in his height and the biggest conquests could to be able for him.

Between his principal triumphs are: over Víctor Avendaño, the first Iberoamerican Olympic Champion, in 1928, Light Heavyweight (K.O. 2) Vicente Olivieri, former Argentinian LH Champion (K.O. 6) Alberto Icochea (PTS) José Concha (twice by K.O.) Guillermo Silva (TKO 3) The famous Basque Isidoro Gastañaga (TKO 6) [Gastañaga, on October 15, 1937, secluded Carattoli, beat on points the Light Heavyweight World Champion John Henry Lewis] The American Tommy Loughran, considered by several reviewers the greatest Light Heavyweight of all times, confronted Carattoli in one of the largest sporting events of his era in Buenos Aires, October 6, 1934. By unanimous decision José Carattoli win clearly over the great Tommy Loughran… On February 21, 1935, they returned to fight, but this time, José breaked his famous left hand and arrived to the draw, but one judge voted Carattoli as the victorious. There haven’t doubts: Carattoli was in the same rank of Tommy Loughran. Because of his reiterated injuries in his most important hand, José Carattoli choosed to retire; in that moment, probably, he was the best Light Heavyweight of the world.

That this lines served for to evoke the great José Carattoli a century after he born




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barry



Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 6476
Location: North Tazewell, Virginia
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:33 am Post subject: re

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Thanks for that sketch on Carattoli. I did not realize that he had beat Loughran! I noticed that he also had a draw with South African heavyweight Don McCorkindale early in his career and went the route with Godoy and stopped hard punching Gastanaga, which the record for Gastanaga is incomplete in the database. It's pretty damn good for a fighter of Carattoli's size to handle heavyweights in the manner that he seemed to.

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Martin Sosa Cameron
Editor



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Cordoba, Argentina
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: re

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barry wrote:
Thanks for that sketch on Carattoli. I did not realize that he had beat Loughran! I noticed that he also had a draw with South African heavyweight Don McCorkindale early in his career and went the route with Godoy and stopped hard punching Gastanaga, which the record for Gastanaga is incomplete in the database. It's pretty damn good for a fighter of Carattoli's size to handle heavyweights in the manner that he seemed to.



Barry,
You are right! I remember that José Carattoli never surpassed the 80kg (176 lbs) but he was proclaimed Argentinian Heavy Champion because the giant Victorio Campolo refused to fight against Carattoli for the National Title, and Campolo had the height-weight like Primo Carnera! Don McCorkindale was near of to be the Heavy Commonwealth Champion. On Isidoro Gastañaga, I know he scored near of twenty consecutive K.O. wins before his fight against Carattoli, but I haven't the detail of his record. Other important triumphs of José Carattoli were over Pedro Mancieri (K.O. 3) Domenico Ceccarelli (PTS) Bernardo Torrijos (PTS) Humberto Quiñones (K.O. 2) Alejandro Trías (K.O. 2) Luis Balladores (K.O. 2) Erwin Klausner (K.O. 5) Enrique Núñez (TKO 5). As Luis Firpo between the Argentinian Heavyweights, José Carattoli was the greatest Argentinian Light Heavyweight.

A photo of Carattoli is in this Forum, in Boxeo Mundial, under the title of "JOSÉ CARATTOLI"


Seamus,
I can't to say very much because I'm a Jose Carattoli fan

Decagon wrote:Yeah, but Calzaghe never fights anyone. He gets in one remotely competitive fight every five years.

You call that a competitive fight?!?!? Joe took him to the cleaner's!

I believe that Australia's Jimmy Carruthers should have been included. In the first part of his career, he retired undefeated bantaweight world champion, a feat which until 1961 he shared with Rocky Marciano.

BUMP

wow, nice post Seamus.

we may quibble over the odd place here and there but that's a great bit of research

That's a fine list.

I was wondering about Olivares, he was so left hand heavy, I wondered if he was a converted Southpaw. I can't find anything (online at least) to say he was.

It is an awesome list. Many of the guys you don't hear much about.
I would move Saldivar up quite a bit. He should be much higher than #26. Probably would lower Galxy a bit. I keep think someone is missing but perhaps not.
Great list.