Ottke vs. Brewer II clip

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 20 Sep 2006, 11:47

Max Molyneux wrote:Warren made Kessler and Beyer offers before and after he fought Lacy.

So what was the offer - a plate of warm soup?

All I know is that Warren said Joe couldn't fight Beyer on Setpember 14, and now he fights Bika on - September 14.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 20 Sep 2006, 11:49

dumdane wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:In pounds that would be worth it.
Problably about a tenth of what Calzaghe would make.

If Warren wants decent opposition, he'll need to come up with something better. - But who ever said better opposition was a priority to Warren.
What surprices me is that Calzaghe fans seems to agree.

Some Calzaghe fans agree to everything. If Frankie tells them little drunkard Jack from underneath a Cardiff bridge is the biggest baddest thread at super-middlweight, they will gladly believe it - and buy a ticket.

I guess it's becasue Britain has so few decent fighters that they think they need to defend Calzaghe -- and in particular his mangement -- beyond reason.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 20 Sep 2006, 20:57

Kessler is not a name to be demanding such money.

It's because he wants to be well paid if he's taking a beating.

I guess it's becasue Britain has so few decent fighters that they think they need to defend Calzaghe -- and in particular his mangement -- beyond reason.

Haha, America's hardly got any good fighters at the moment and are relying on washed up legends like Mosley and an inactive DLH whos going to get a pasting if he fights only once a year by guys like Mayweather.

Hell, your losing your hw titles to ex soviets who dare wouldn't of touched them in a stronger era.

Europes where it's at baby!

Plus Britain has the most world champs at the moment than any other European country and the most EBU champs.

states · Post by **states** » 20 Sep 2006, 22:12

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Kessler's team not offer Lacy the fight before Warren did? With the condition that Kessler got the big bucks if the fight was in the U.S., or the option that Lacy got the big bucks if the fight was in Denmark.

You'd think that Kessler's handlers could get together with Fun-time Frankie to get this fight sorted. Nah, that's wishful thinking. Still, maybe HBO could force the fight.... FFS, everyone wants to see it......... *

*of course, Kessler needs to get past Beyer. I think he will.

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 20 Sep 2006, 22:55

Max Molyneux wrote:Kessler is not a name to be demanding such money.

Exactly how Warren sees it, and exactly why Calzaghe - despite a long career at the top of the game - has had so few meaningfull fights.

Warren is simply being too greedy.

With just one major belt and considering their respective fame, Kessler shouldn't have got a 50-50 split (and he wouldn't expect to).
But 10% is ridiculous.

Warren needs to get real OR Calzaghe will keep fighting b-level fighters.

I think Warren will opt for the later - as he always has with few exceptions.

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 21 Sep 2006, 00:16

states wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Kessler's team not offer Lacy the fight before Warren did? With the condition that Kessler got the big bucks if the fight was in the U.S., or the option that Lacy got the big bucks if the fight was in Denmark.

That's how i understand it too.
But that kind of deal is nowhere near what Warren wants.
(assuming Warren want's that fight at all - i'm not so sure)

You'd think that Kessler's handlers could get together with Fun-time Frankie to get this fight sorted. Nah, that's wishful thinking. Still, maybe HBO could force the fight.... FFS, everyone wants to see it......... *

Hopefully HBO getting in the mix, can raise the overall stakes enough to make it happen anyway.
But as you conclude - it's not likely to happen.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 21 Sep 2006, 07:28

If Warren made Kessler and offer and Kessler refused... that means Kessler is ducking Calzaghe! Good to know.

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 21 Sep 2006, 08:52

Taki... wrote:If Warren made Kessler and offer and Kessler refused... that means Kessler is ducking Calzaghe! Good to know.

So with that kind of logic, since Team-Palle has made several offers for Calzaghe to fight Kessler. Several offers for Calzaghe to fight Larsen (when he was with Palle) and continually asks Calzaghe to take on his mandatory WBO challenger Markussen and Calzaghe has not done so - It obviously means that Calzaghe is ducking both Kessler, Larsen and Markussen.

....Ducking Markussen!!!! - Thats REALLY embarassing.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Sep 2006, 09:53

dumdane wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Kessler is not a name to be demanding such money.
Exactly how Warren sees it, and exactly why Calzaghe - despite a long career at the top of the game - has had so few meaningfull fights.

Warren is simply being too greedy.

Greedy or over-cautious?

My take: Warren excepts fights only if the circumstances are all in Calzaghe's favor and the risk is well-contained and calculated.

And Kessler is simple too much of a risk.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Sep 2006, 09:54

Taki... wrote:If Warren made Kessler and offer and Kessler refused... that means Kessler is ducking Calzaghe! Good to know.

Elementary logic doesn't seem to be your thing.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Sep 2006, 09:57

I think that if Kessler was more of a name with proven Marquee value then Warren would have assessed the risk differently. It's what Kessler brings to the table that Warren would assess.

According to Freiheit, our resident Eastern Europe boxing expert, Kessler hasn't really got a huge fanbase, as boxing isn't even that popular in Denmark, that being the case, and given that he isn't a huge star anywhere else, it's easy to see why this fight hasn't happen. Add to this the fact that Kessler probably wanted very well paying to fight Calzaghe (according to reports he did) and it's hardly surprising that unless Calzaghe kicks up a fuss, Warren is going to consign Kessler to the big draw in the filing cabinet marked 'who need 'em.'

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 21 Sep 2006, 16:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote:According to Freiheit, our resident Eastern Europe boxing expert, Kessler hasn't really got a huge fanbase, as boxing isn't even that popular in Denmark...

That in mind, it's funny that a small time opperator like Team-Palle is able to offer Beyer so much more for a fight, than Warrren seems to be able to (or more likely willing to) pay Kessler.

Add to this the fact that Kessler probably wanted very well paying to fight Calzaghe (according to reports he did)

Kesslers demands were made as a response to Warren offering Kessler only 50.000$ for a fight - Short notice and at a time when Kessler was well known to be injured (basicly a cheap shot or an insult).
Palle's response to a very low offer was a very high demand - typical negotiation really. Only Warren didn't want to negotiate. He broke of negotiations as soon as he heard Palle's demands.

Palle's view was that Warren was never serious about wanting Joe to fight Kessler. And that they really hadn't expected any kind of possitive response from Kessler at a time when he was recovering from injury.

Kessler had only been used as a bargaining tool in the negotiations with Lacy.

and it's hardly surprising that unless Calzaghe kicks up a fuss, Warren is going to consign Kessler to the big draw in the filing cabinet marked 'who need 'em.'

True. Fight is only gonna happen if Calzaghe insists he wants to unify SMW to build his legacy. - Doubt he will.

Only other window of oppertunity is if HBO really starts to push it - and are able to raise the stakes. AND if all other options considered more lucrative for Calzaghe fails.

glahn · Post by **glahn** » 21 Sep 2006, 18:19

Calzaghe's options now are basically Woods, Wright and Kessler. I reckon he'll only fight Kessler if the first two options are unavailable.

Gary_V · Post by **Gary_V** » 22 Sep 2006, 06:13

I think it's important to respect all boxers but I don't respect Ottke.

In my opinion he lost to: Johnson, Brewer (twice), Mitchell, Larsen and worst of all Robin Reid.

I can't get the image of a man truning and whingeing to the ref every time he got hit by a jab. And complaining it was a headbut when he got knocked down.

Ottke was a decent amateur but an ovverated pro (not a fighter) who only needed to go 12 rounds each fight to 'bank' a win.

6 KO's in 30-odd fights...'fantastic'.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 22 Sep 2006, 06:34

http://www.boxingpress.de/fotos/Mundine_floored.jpg

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 22 Sep 2006, 07:20

Come on everyone.

Whether you're for Calzaghe or for Kessler, don't forget that HBO - who bring all that extra $ that everyone wants - are showing BOTH fights.

Can anyone see where this is going?...

A 4 belt unification.

Wouldn't HBO involvement mean more money to go round for everyone? Wouldn't that rule out pittance offers by the mean, tight with his money Warren?

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 22 Sep 2006, 09:45

pundit wrote:
Taki... wrote:If Warren made Kessler and offer and Kessler refused... that means Kessler is ducking Calzaghe! Good to know.
Elementary logic doesn't seem to be your thing.

I have decided to take a leaf out of your book.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Sep 2006, 10:36

Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote:
Taki... wrote:If Warren made Kessler and offer and Kessler refused... that means Kessler is ducking Calzaghe! Good to know.
Elementary logic doesn't seem to be your thing.
I have decided to take a leaf out of your book.

For that you'd have to be able to read it first....

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Sep 2006, 10:37

Dumdane, why would Warren offer Kessler 50,000 in dollars when the dollar is not Danish or British money?

In pounds it's not bad, but if he beats Beyer then he'd have to offer a few hundred thousand then.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Sep 2006, 10:38

viciousmaussa wrote:Come on everyone.

Whether you're for Calzaghe or for Kessler, don't forget that HBO - who bring all that extra $ that everyone wants - are showing BOTH fights.

Can anyone see where this is going?...

A 4 belt unification.

Wouldn't HBO involvement mean more money to go round for everyone? Wouldn't that rule out pittance offers by the mean, tight with his money Warren?

Hope your right and Joe did say in Boxing Monthly Kessler motivates him to stay at Supermiddle.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Sep 2006, 10:38

Gary_V wrote:I think it's important to respect all boxers but I don't respect Ottke.

In my opinion he lost to: Johnson, Brewer (twice), Mitchell, Larsen and worst of all Robin Reid.

The only one he lost clearly was Brewer I. He handsomely won Johnson, Brewer II, and Mitchell handsomely. Reid and Larsen were ugly, hard-to-score fights at a time when Ottke was way beyond his peak.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Sep 2006, 10:56

pundit wrote:
Gary_V wrote:I think it's important to respect all boxers but I don't respect Ottke.

In my opinion he lost to: Johnson, Brewer (twice), Mitchell, Larsen and worst of all Robin Reid.
The only one he lost clearly was Brewer I. He handsomely won Johnson, Brewer II, and Mitchell handsomely. Reid and Larsen were ugly, hard-to-score fights at a time when Ottke was way beyond his peak.

Btw, the over-the-hill 2003 Ottke openly ducked Kessler when he took on Roibin Reid instead. Kessler had (in contrast to Calzaghe) made Ottke a decent offer (one million US$ plus TV rights for a fight in Germany; ALL money plus TV rights for a fight in Denmark).

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Sep 2006, 11:01

In Euros please, the dollar does not exist here.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Sep 2006, 11:05

Max Molyneux wrote:In Euros please, the dollar does not exist here.

The Euro exists in Liverpool? News to me...

You may be right that Kessler offered Euros to Ottke.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Sep 2006, 11:18

Pound exists here.

Euros in Germany and Krone in Denmark.

So was Ottke offered that in Euros?