BoxRec

How can the Promoter be blamed when fighters pull out either injured or
through weight making difficulties. The comments are unfair. The only people that should be blamed for withdrawing are Nelson and Murray. Both fights were contracted and announced and both fighters acknowledged their participation so why blame Warren? In fact, why blame Nelosn or Murray, would you rather we saw an injured fighter and a weight-drained fighter risking injury or, god forbid, worse?

Get a grip on the game you lot.

Well said

BOXINGCHAT, It's nearly always the same with him though, out of all the promoters he must have the most call offs. Always gives us good bouts on paper but hardly any come off. How many times does he hand the punters money back?? To me it's much the same as booking a months holiday in the Bahamas, and then getting told that the planes full but they can give you a weekend in Blackpool, and if you don't fancy that tough! Same pish, different month. Of course your going to stick by him, he's your mate.

boxingchat wrote:How can the Promoter be blamed when fighters pull out either injured or
through weight making difficulties. The comments are unfair. The only people that should be blamed for withdrawing are Nelson and Murray. Both fights were contracted and announced and both fighters acknowledged their participation so why blame Warren? In fact, why blame Nelosn or Murray, would you rather we saw an injured fighter and a weight-drained fighter risking injury or, god forbid, worse?

Get a grip on the game you lot.

Say what you will BC but I am a member of the ticket buying public and have become so jaded with SN cards that I will now only buy tickets a few days ahead of the show, as they seem to alter radically from their originally announced running order far too often.

I dont care who you want to blame: too often the product is not as originally advertised and refunds arent offered.

Its you who needs to get a grip. Not everyone walks in free with a pass around their neck.

Good post Terry, couldn't have put it better myself

when the bill was first put up i nearly bought a ticket purely for the undercard

glad i didnt

How do SN get away with not paying refunds?

If the bill is markedly different to the one advertised and someone's bought tickets on the strength of the original bill, surely there must be some legal recourse to getting a refund.

SticknMove wrote:How do SN get away with not paying refunds?

If the bill is markedly different to the one advertised and someone's bought tickets on the strength of the original bill, surely there must be some legal recourse to getting a refund.

The 'subject to change' line printed on posters and tickets in small lettering is legally the only defence they need.

Morally, however...

Tickets are often sold as (from ticketmaster at least)

"world championship boxing @ MEN arena"

sweetscience wrote:when the bill was first put up i nearly bought a ticket purely for the undercard

glad i didnt

All im waiting for now is the Kell Brook fight called off and im deffo not going .

It is unfortunate of course, but Sport is physical and injuries happen this is a fact of life. A footballer may be able to carry an injury, have a shot of whatever and plod through 90 minutes but a Boxer has to be 100% as he is alone and is putting his mlife on the line ultimately.

It pisses the Promter off as much as the crowd belive me but you cannot account for injuries or fighter not wanting to fight or whatever. If Nelson has concended defeat in his return to fitness respect that and wish him the best his loss is greater than anyones. Nelson has lost £150k and his world title and has still kopped the ex's to train.

As for refunds, this is a matter for debate as you are aware of the potential problems whn you buy a ticket. Do Real Madrid refund your money if Beckham is injured or do Man Utd refund your money if they draw say exeter in the Cup. Sport is Sport and their is no remedy for this type of thing. In his defence, how many shows has Warren cancelled compared to others at least the show goes on.

Is Maccarinelli V Hobson so bad? Kell Brook V Doherty? Foster V Matthews, Paul Smith etc etc.

boxingchat wrote:It is unfortunate of course, but Sport is physical and injuries happen this is a fact of life. A footballer may be able to carry an injury, have a shot of whatever and plod through 90 minutes but a Boxer has to be 100% as he is alone and is putting his mlife on the line ultimately.

It pisses the Promter off as much as the crowd belive me but you cannot account for injuries or fighter not wanting to fight or whatever. If Nelson has concended defeat in his return to fitness respect that and wish him the best his loss is greater than anyones. Nelson has lost £150k and his world title and has still kopped the ex's to train.

As for refunds, this is a matter for debate as you are aware of the potential problems whn you buy a ticket. Do Real Madrid refund your money if Beckham is injured or do Man Utd refund your money if they draw say exeter in the Cup. Sport is Sport and their is no remedy for this type of thing. In his defence, how many shows has Warren cancelled compared to others at least the show goes on.

Is Maccarinelli V Hobson so bad? Kell Brook V Doherty? Foster V Matthews, Paul Smith etc etc.

I suppose they cant refund tickets as the show wouldnt be worth going ahead, it wouldnt pay the promotor would it?.

boxingchat wrote:It is unfortunate of course, but Sport is physical and injuries happen this is a fact of life. A footballer may be able to carry an injury, have a shot of whatever and plod through 90 minutes but a Boxer has to be 100% as he is alone and is putting his mlife on the line ultimately.

It pisses the Promter off as much as the crowd belive me but you cannot account for injuries or fighter not wanting to fight or whatever. If Nelson has concended defeat in his return to fitness respect that and wish him the best his loss is greater than anyones. Nelson has lost £150k and his world title and has still kopped the ex's to train.

As for refunds, this is a matter for debate as you are aware of the potential problems whn you buy a ticket. Do Real Madrid refund your money if Beckham is injured or do Man Utd refund your money if they draw say exeter in the Cup. Sport is Sport and their is no remedy for this type of thing. In his defence, how many shows has Warren cancelled compared to others at least the show goes on.

Is Maccarinelli V Hobson so bad? Kell Brook V Doherty? Foster V Matthews, Paul Smith etc etc.

the real madrid / man utd analogy is not quite the same, people support the clubs not the individuals. if a player moves on the fans dont go and support the club he goes to.
with boxing they support the individual.

Totally agree with Boxing Chat.

If too many fighters pull out surely its better to postpone bill.

It wouldn't be fair on the fighters who are fighting and some can't afford to have it postponed for too long.

Plus there not the main event.

Yes that is true, but too many of his bills main events do change

boxingchat wrote:It is unfortunate of course, but Sport is physical and injuries happen this is a fact of life. A footballer may be able to carry an injury, have a shot of whatever and plod through 90 minutes but a Boxer has to be 100% as he is alone and is putting his mlife on the line ultimately.

It pisses the Promter off as much as the crowd belive me but you cannot account for injuries or fighter not wanting to fight or whatever. If Nelson has concended defeat in his return to fitness respect that and wish him the best his loss is greater than anyones. Nelson has lost £150k and his world title and has still kopped the ex's to train.

As for refunds, this is a matter for debate as you are aware of the potential problems whn you buy a ticket. Do Real Madrid refund your money if Beckham is injured or do Man Utd refund your money if they draw say exeter in the Cup. Sport is Sport and their is no remedy for this type of thing. In his defence, how many shows has Warren cancelled compared to others at least the show goes on.

Is Maccarinelli V Hobson so bad? Kell Brook V Doherty? Foster V Matthews, Paul Smith etc etc.

I can definately see your point, and I'm sure no one is blaming Warren or SN directly. Given the number of times Nelson and Murray have fought in the last year... then perhaps maybe they shouldn't have been on this bill and part of an "ITV4" standard bill that could have been cancelled. As I got a refund from my Calzaghe vs TBA (Johnson) bill last time I was going to go to this one, but I was going to wait - and this time I am glad I didn't buy. Yes, its still a good card but my financial situation isn't great. For those buying primarily to see Nelson vs Maccrinelli (which was my reason) then I hope they did the same thing, given Johnny's long term injury problems.

I appreciate your last line, but isn't it the moral high ground to cancel the show and try and re-arrange it... although I do appreciate the fit fighters wouldn't like that attitude.

Anyway, nice that a reasoned debate is happening and not anyone going off on one. Its a tough predicament for both fans and promoters. I've learned that it is best to book your ticket late if there is a specific reason for going. If you just want to see a good night of boxing, then book early - cause you will get a big bill, if not the bill as originally planned.

Good debate, yes, but as far a resolution I don't think there is one. When a fighter pulls out it is a bummer all round but usually, the show is up and running and the Promter has already invested a significant amount of money, has contracted with other fighters and has stumped up for venue, hotel, flights etc in advance.

Cancelling shows is not great for TV, the sport in general or the fighters who are themselves training and incurring ex's all the time.

Cancelling or postponing is certainly not the easy option in any way, moreso for bigger shows.

It's not all win, win, win for promoters I can assure you hence the dwindling amount of Promoters still in the game. Fighters cause most of the problems but the Promoters are the easy target.

And before anyone mentions insurance, ring for a quote!

boxingchat wrote:Good debate, yes, but as far a resolution I don't think there is one. When a fighter pulls out it is a bummer all round but usually, the show is up and running and the Promter has already invested a significant amount of money, has contracted with other fighters and has stumped up for venue, hotel, flights etc in advance.

Cancelling shows is not great for TV, the sport in general or the fighters who are themselves training and incurring ex's all the time.

Cancelling or postponing is certainly not the easy option in any way, moreso for bigger shows.

It's not all win, win, win for promoters I can assure you hence the dwindling amount of Promoters still in the game. Fighters cause most of the problems but the Promoters are the easy target.

And before anyone mentions insurance, ring for a quote!

Good response, I can see the sense in what your saying.

What was your answer to my suggestion re Nelson/Murray (i.e. put them fights on a smaller bill, which could be easily cancelled).

I'm sure you are aware that for a lot of the hardcore fans it was these two fights specifically were the main reason for going. Even though Calzaghe is the official main event, he was seen largely as a bonus attraction to the hardcore. As you said (and I agree), it is hard to cancel big shows especially for official undercard fights. So why not put them (as these have been two inactive fighters) on a seperate card that would be easier to cancel?

Just a thought, I do understand the predicament - its a bummer all round.

stujones wrote:

boxingchat wrote:Good debate, yes, but as far a resolution I don't think there is one. When a fighter pulls out it is a bummer all round but usually, the show is up and running and the Promter has already invested a significant amount of money, has contracted with other fighters and has stumped up for venue, hotel, flights etc in advance.

Cancelling shows is not great for TV, the sport in general or the fighters who are themselves training and incurring ex's all the time.

Cancelling or postponing is certainly not the easy option in any way, moreso for bigger shows.

It's not all win, win, win for promoters I can assure you hence the dwindling amount of Promoters still in the game. Fighters cause most of the problems but the Promoters are the easy target.

And before anyone mentions insurance, ring for a quote!

Good response, I can see the sense in what your saying.

What was your answer to my suggestion re Nelson/Murray (i.e. put them fights on a smaller bill, which could be easily cancelled).

I'm sure you are aware that for a lot of the hardcore fans it was these two fights specifically were the main reason for going. Even though Calzaghe is the official main event, he was seen largely as a bonus attraction to the hardcore. As you said (and I agree), it is hard to cancel big shows especially for official undercard fights. So why not put them (as these have been two inactive fighters) on a seperate card that would be easier to cancel?

Just a thought, I do understand the predicament - its a bummer all round.

Exactly! when Nelson was out i thought 'well at least Burns is still on'.But now theres only the Brook- Doherty fight on the undercard i want to see.

stujones wrote:

boxingchat wrote:Good debate, yes, but as far a resolution I don't think there is one. When a fighter pulls out it is a bummer all round but usually, the show is up and running and the Promter has already invested a significant amount of money, has contracted with other fighters and has stumped up for venue, hotel, flights etc in advance.

Cancelling shows is not great for TV, the sport in general or the fighters who are themselves training and incurring ex's all the time.

Cancelling or postponing is certainly not the easy option in any way, moreso for bigger shows.

It's not all win, win, win for promoters I can assure you hence the dwindling amount of Promoters still in the game. Fighters cause most of the problems but the Promoters are the easy target.

And before anyone mentions insurance, ring for a quote!

Good response, I can see the sense in what your saying.

What was your answer to my suggestion re Nelson/Murray (i.e. put them fights on a smaller bill, which could be easily cancelled).

I'm sure you are aware that for a lot of the hardcore fans it was these two fights specifically were the main reason for going. Even though Calzaghe is the official main event, he was seen largely as a bonus attraction to the hardcore. As you said (and I agree), it is hard to cancel big shows especially for official undercard fights. So why not put them (as these have been two inactive fighters) on a seperate card that would be easier to cancel?

Just a thought, I do understand the predicament - its a bummer all round.

Nelson is/was a world champion and as such would not want to fight on a smaller show for the sort of purses those type of shows could suffer. Fighters have demands and Nelson is no different and rightly so. Promoters have contracts with Boxers that provide Guaranteed purses and therefore this is a non-starter.

As for Murray, this fight was won via a purse offer and Murray was not allowed to fight for 28 days beofre the submitted date under the strict terms of a purse offer. He chose to fight 29 days before and fought over ten round for a lightweight title, although he weighed in slightly over Super-Feather (Nothing wrong with that but a gamble nonethe less and the Baord should protect Promoters by making it a 45 day limit IMO) He now say's he can't make the weight so in this instance Warren has been let down by Murray and his team. However, if Murray doesn't feel strong at 130 then we have to respect that decision and move on rather than have a risky and dangerous situation with a drained fighter. For me, I think he was wary of Burns beating him and this prompted his decision. whether that was a good move or a bad move remains to be seen.

Be assured, Promoters want to make the big and interesting fights it's the fighters who often don't want them (Regardless of what they say in public, trust me) Do you think a Promoter would rather run small and insignificant events or large and high-profile ones?

Just read Hatton's book and the crap he is spewing on this particular subject is unbelievable. He chose every one of his opponents and turned down many good fights and fighters and preferred the easy jobs all day long.

As his father once said Ricky could fill the MEN fighting Mickey mouse why take risks, such is his respect for the punters money! He criticises Holbaek and Vilches and slags their ability yet he and his dad chose them personally out of a shortlist. The Book is bile.

boxingchat wrote: Just read Hatton's book and the crap he is spewing on this particular subject is unbelievable. He chose every one of his opponents and turned down many good fights and fighters and preferred the easy jobs all day long.

As his father once said Ricky could fill the MEN fighting Mickey mouse why take risks, such is his respect for the punters money! He criticises Holbaek and Vilches and slags their ability yet he and his dad chose them personally out of a shortlist. The Book is bile.

Just about half way through it myself ( mentions you a couple of times I see 8) ) goes a bit down hill when he's let loose on his pub adventures at length, could've used a better editor I think.
But to be fair he admits turning down certain opponents, including a Thaxton rematch aswell. Gives Warren a lot of praise so far.

Says he was on £3k for each of his first 6 fights....not bad!

MightyWarrior wrote:

boxingchat wrote: Just read Hatton's book and the crap he is spewing on this particular subject is unbelievable. He chose every one of his opponents and turned down many good fights and fighters and preferred the easy jobs all day long.

As his father once said Ricky could fill the MEN fighting Mickey mouse why take risks, such is his respect for the punters money! He criticises Holbaek and Vilches and slags their ability yet he and his dad chose them personally out of a shortlist. The Book is bile.

Just about half way through it myself ( mentions you a couple of times I see 8) ) goes a bit down hill when he's let loose on his pub adventures at length, could've used a better editor I think.
But to be fair he admits turning down certain opponents, including a Thaxton rematch aswell. Gives Warren a lot of praise so far.

Says he was on £3k for each of his first 6 fights....not bad!

Im just about to start the last Chapter.I didnt know he owes Delboys 3 wheeler van.

MightyWarrior wrote:

boxingchat wrote: Just read Hatton's book and the crap he is spewing on this particular subject is unbelievable. He chose every one of his opponents and turned down many good fights and fighters and preferred the easy jobs all day long.

As his father once said Ricky could fill the MEN fighting Mickey mouse why take risks, such is his respect for the punters money! He criticises Holbaek and Vilches and slags their ability yet he and his dad chose them personally out of a shortlist. The Book is bile.

Just about half way through it myself ( mentions you a couple of times I see 8) ) goes a bit down hill when he's let loose on his pub adventures at length, could've used a better editor I think.
But to be fair he admits turning down certain opponents, including a Thaxton rematch aswell. Gives Warren a lot of praise so far.

Says he was on £3k for each of his first 6 fights....not bad!

Mentions me? Not in my copy?