Sakio Bika

Post by **John** » 17 Oct 2006, 11:34

You are talking about an exceptional situation where land borders were redrawn and new countries created. Eg. if / when NI is reunited with the South then I think that all NI boxers should become Irish unless they maintained their British identity by moving to the mainland.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 17 Oct 2006, 11:52

JohnShep wrote:You are talking about an exceptional situation where land borders were redrawn and new countries created. Eg. if / when NI is reunited with the South then I think that all NI boxers should become Irish unless they maintained their British identity by moving to the mainland.

So you are ignoring all of the points I have raised because you cant explain them and are basically saying that you list nationality by what suits you - which is what I thought but at least were are getting the issue out in the open. You hold contradictory policies for many fighters and countries.

I agree that Northern Ireland is an unusual situation - I am not sure if there is a similar situation anywhere else in the world and for this reason you should recognise it. The Irish and British Governments brought the Belfast Agreement into place to recognise both that those from Northern Ireland can be recognised as either Irish or British dependant on their choosing - Duddy has clearly come out as stating the he has Irish nationality - that should pretty much end it dont you think!

Post by **John** » 17 Oct 2006, 11:56

sligobhoy67 wrote: So you are ignoring all of the points I have raised because you cant explain them and are basically saying that you list nationality by what suits you - which is what I thought but at least were are getting the issue out in the open. You hold contradictory policies for many fighters and countries.

I thought I had very patiently and thoroughly answered your points, however I am prepared to go over them again one by one until you are happy.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 17 Oct 2006, 12:02

JohnShep wrote:
sligobhoy67 wrote: So you are ignoring all of the points I have raised because you cant explain them and are basically saying that you list nationality by what suits you - which is what I thought but at least were are getting the issue out in the open. You hold contradictory policies for many fighters and countries.
I thought I had very patiently and thoroughly answered your points, however I am prepared to go over them again one by one until you are happy.

Fair enough, start with these -

1. If Maskaev is listed as Russian, why are the Klitchiko brothers not listed as Russian then, they were born in Kryzak and Kazakhstan respectively which was the former Russia (USSR) so by your logic "its not fair" to have them listed as being from a former USSR state - but you have them listed as being from the Ukraine even though they are only ethnically Ukrainian as there father was Ukrainian and a military man that was posted around the former USSR?

Are you going to apply this "retrospective theory evenly across the board and change

2. all the Serbs, Croats etc back to Yugoslavian,

3. All Czechs and Slovaks back to Czechoslovakian,

4. all those born in the former East Germany back to East German,

5. those from Hong Kong back to British?

Post by **John** » 17 Oct 2006, 12:12

sligobhoy67 wrote: Fair enough, start with these - If Maskaev is listed as Russian, why are the Klitchiko brothers not listed as Russian then, they were born in Kryzak and Kazakhstan respectively which was the former Russia (USSR) so by your logic "its not fair" to have them listed as being from a former USSR state - but you have them listed as being from the Ukraine even though they are only ethnically Ukrainian as there father was Ukrainian and a military man that was posted around the former USSR?

Are you going to apply this "retrospective theory evenly across the board and change all the Serbs, Croats etc back to Yugoslavian, All Czechs and Slovaks back to Czechoslovakian, all those born in the former East Germany back to East German, those from Hong Kong back to British?

As I said we have an exceptional situation here where borders have been redrawn, new countries created and some countries have ceased to exist. Under those circumstances I think we have allocated the boxers fairly but I admit it has been a real pain in the arse and we might have made mstakes.
Using the retrospective rule we haven't changed the Klitchkos into Kazaks as they were born Russian. So they could have been listed as Russian but subsequently Russia broke up they ended up in the Ukraine and are listed as Ukrainian.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 17 Oct 2006, 13:46

JohnShep wrote:
sligobhoy67 wrote: Fair enough, start with these - If Maskaev is listed as Russian, why are the Klitchiko brothers not listed as Russian then, they were born in Kryzak and Kazakhstan respectively which was the former Russia (USSR) so by your logic "its not fair" to have them listed as being from a former USSR state - but you have them listed as being from the Ukraine even though they are only ethnically Ukrainian as there father was Ukrainian and a military man that was posted around the former USSR?

Are you going to apply this "retrospective theory evenly across the board and change all the Serbs, Croats etc back to Yugoslavian, All Czechs and Slovaks back to Czechoslovakian, all those born in the former East Germany back to East German, those from Hong Kong back to British?

As I said we have an exceptional situation here where borders have been redrawn, new countries created and some countries have ceased to exist. Under those circumstances I think we have allocated the boxers fairly but I admit it has been a real pain in the arse and we might have made mstakes.
Using the retrospective rule we haven't changed the Klitchkos into Kazaks as they were born Russian. So they could have been listed as Russian but subsequently Russia broke up they ended up in the Ukraine and are listed as Ukrainian.

lol, that is the biggest loaded of "contradictory" nonsense I have ever heard! I'm going to the United match now so have got time to reply now - but I will be back!!

Musashi · Post by **Musashi** » 17 Oct 2006, 16:33

sligobhoy67 wrote:lol, that is the biggest loaded of "contradictory" nonsense I have ever heard! I'm going to the United match now so have got time to reply now - but I will be back!!

Those are some big words for such a little guy.

http://www.filmireland.net/97/images/leprechaun.jpg

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 28 Oct 2006, 07:28

The Klitschko's carry Ukrainian flags into the ring too so it is right to list them as Ukrainian though.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 29 Oct 2006, 09:24

Max Molyneux wrote:The Klitschko's carry Ukrainian flags into the ring too so it is right to list them as Ukrainian though.

Duddy carries an Irish flag into the ring - what your point.

I've actually given up on this issue for now, because as you can see JohnShep is basically making it up as he goes along!

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 29 Oct 2006, 18:26

JohnShep wrote:
sligobhoy67 wrote: a real pain in the arse and we might have made mstakes.
Using the retrospective rule we haven't changed the Klitchkos into Kazaks as they were born Russian. So they could have been listed as Russian but subsequently Russia broke up they ended up in the Ukraine and are listed as Ukrainian.

its when I read this bullshit that I realised the he was talking total shit and would never reason to any arguement that went against his point of view

Blue · Post by **Blue** » 30 Oct 2006, 00:03

Winston Churchill quote:
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."