BoxRec

Another thing that got Frazier in trouble was when he got knocked down each time he got back up and started to come foreward. If that would have been Larry Holmes he would have stepped back and regrouped knowing he had 15 rounds to utilize a game plan. Joe was not the kind of tachtical fighter Holmes was, he thought he could fight his way out of trouble. Holmes would have turned it into a chess match.

nice post alp

Cojimar 1945 wrote:Holmes rates above Foreman due to greater consistency. Foreman never dominated the division for an extended period of time and his resume is not quite as good as Holmes is.

Weak argument. How long would Holmes have reigned if he was mixing it up with prime Ali, Frazier, and Norton?

Holmes best challengers were a league below these three. More than half were several leagues below.

one thing i strongly disagree with you alp. i feel frazier was clearly past his prime and overweight when he fought george foreman. frazier was never the same after FOTC in march 1971.

That's because Frazier won the fight but lost the war that night. He took by far the worse beating in that winning effort.

I think George is severley underrated in the alltime career listings. At his absolute peak I believe only an Ali would have beat him, or maybe a peak Tyson. But all the others I feel were too hitable and would lose bad.
His win against Frazier also is underrated because Frazier to me is a top 5 Heavyweight and George obliterated the guy. Norton was also demolished. These are tremendous achievemnts but posters seem to make excuses. Ali I believe would always beat Foreman, simply because Ali had he capacity to take enormous amounts of punishment and he skills to fire back very effectively. Basically Ali could give it as well as take it

i've gotten to the stage where I tend to take every little journalist with access to a boxing publication with a grain of salt. I disagree with much of Casey's argument. I disagree with his assessment of the fighters and his many presumptions about them... I don't see how he could even mention Jim Jeffries and Foreman in the same sentence. He lost me right there...saying the Foreman was not as hard a puncher as Louis and Baer is just plain ignorant.

To begin with, Foreman was, next to Tyson and Lennox Lewis the most powerful man ever to hold the title. Fortunately for us Ali fans, styles make fights...Against Ali, Foremans's strengths became his weaknesses. Ali showed Young how to beat Foreman...He destroyed the aura of invincibility. Beating Frazier and Norton was basic for foreman...Frazier was a little guy that walked forward into greater firepower...Norton was scared. But why did George struggle with Ron Lyle? Lyle was no great shakes. Before the Frazier fight, Foreman was a big underdog...he simply hadn't proven himself. He destroys frazier suddenly he's the most feared man since Liston?..I think the Lyle fight demonstrated that George was simply human after all. Water eventually finds it's own level, so to speak. That is, Foreman was a uniquely strong and overwhelming force in the ring, but he could also be vulnerable when faced with other very strong, determined men... Still, his amazing comeback 10 years later proves that the awesome talent we saw in his youth was no deception. I rank him 4th overall...behind Tyson, Ali & Holmes.

[quote="The Great John L"][quote="pundit"][quote="The Great John L"][quote="pundit"]Only a crafty master-boxer with a superb jab, good reach, excellent defense and ring generalship, and solid physique could have withstood prime George's assault and kept him honest. I reckon the above may have had the necessary tools, but I don't see many others. Maybe Liston, maybe Lewis, but that's it.[/quote]

Maybe Jimmy Young...[/quote]

Maybe
But do you see Young beat the 1973 Foreman?[/quote]

Yep. Actually, the George that fought Young was much more controlled and deliberate than the younger George, and he still had a hard time hitting him. Young was a bad match for any version of George.[/quote]

Young was a bad match for anyone, not just George. Best example, Ali couldn't hit Young and Young won the fight against Ali. Young made Ali look as silly and as overmatched as Ali made many other boxers look. However, Ali being the money machine, got the decision. So, I don't see George's accomplishments being diminished by a loss to Young.