BoxRec

stujones wrote:Whatever the outcome of the fight.... I think Floyd deserves some credit for fighting him. He got absolutely lambasted for the Judah fight - which was signed before Baldomir upset him.

Baldomir should be considered the #1 Welterweight, and it will surely show the critics he is prepared to take on the number #1 ranked fighter in his weight.

People have been (deservedly IMO) critical of his claim for the #1 in the weight when he only beat Gatti at a Light Welter and thus far Judah as a Welterweight.... Now he is fighting and beating the #1 and doing at a time when Baldomir's stock is at its highest.

The strange thing is that Baldo is the lineal champion. But he would lose to most of the other fighters. I mean, he deserves all the credit in the world for this career peak. He might be able to spank Joel Julio or some other prospect, and will find out faded titlists and top fighters who lack focus.

But IMO Margarito, Paul Williams, Quintana, Cotto & Collazo would beat him.


Good to see Sky are getting us coverage on the middleweights. Miranda is a nice addition.

REAL_DEAL wrote:shame no one is showing dunne - pickering. and i don't think there is a way to get RTE on sky. :x

RTE are showing the fight live, but for those non native to the auld sod they are also streaming it live from their website http://www.rte.ie so enjoy!!!!!!!

Excellent, I'll have to watch that. I've not seen Dunne since his return from the U.S., but he's certainly been talked up by a few of the Irish lads on here. Beating Pickering would certainly justify the talk.

viciousmaussa wrote:

stujones wrote:Whatever the outcome of the fight.... I think Floyd deserves some credit for fighting him. He got absolutely lambasted for the Judah fight - which was signed before Baldomir upset him.

Baldomir should be considered the #1 Welterweight, and it will surely show the critics he is prepared to take on the number #1 ranked fighter in his weight.

People have been (deservedly IMO) critical of his claim for the #1 in the weight when he only beat Gatti at a Light Welter and thus far Judah as a Welterweight.... Now he is fighting and beating the #1 and doing at a time when Baldomir's stock is at its highest.

The strange thing is that Baldo is the lineal champion. But he would lose to most of the other fighters. I mean, he deserves all the credit in the world for this career peak. He might be able to spank Joel Julio or some other prospect, and will find out faded titlists and top fighters who lack focus.

But IMO Margarito, Paul Williams, Quintana, Cotto & Collazo would beat him.


Good to see Sky are getting us coverage on the middleweights. Miranda is a nice addition.

I think Floyd will always be one of those fighters who gets criticism no matter what.

He beats a guy who up untill January was considered the #1 in the devision, but was upset cause he wasn't up for Baldomir.... gets criticised because he lost.

Okay, I agree with the criticism for that one.

Now he is fighting the man who beat Judah, and proved it wasn't he at least was a worthy belt holder vs Gatti and yet he is still facing criticism.

Who has Margarito beaten to warrant such lofty praise.... not a dig at you VM, just a general question. Yes, he looks a monster at 147, but he hasn't beaten anyone of note. The only time he stepped up and faced a fellow champion when he fought Santos and he lost and looked one dimensional.

Real question is not will Floyd win, but will Baldomir actualy manage to win a round? Probably not.

MightyWarrior wrote:Real question is not will Floyd win, but will Baldomir actualy manage to win a round? Probably not.

For a few years to come I think this will be said about most of Floyd's opponents.

Zab Judah is an exceptionally skilled athlete, his one weakness is his chin. Floyd's power at 147 hasn't really been tested so I wasn't that surprised with the relative closeness of the fight.

I cannot see Hatton, Margarito and many other so called more worthy opponents taking a round from Mayweather, unless Mayweather hand goes or he takes the round off.

stujones wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:

stujones wrote:Whatever the outcome of the fight.... I think Floyd deserves some credit for fighting him. He got absolutely lambasted for the Judah fight - which was signed before Baldomir upset him.

Baldomir should be considered the #1 Welterweight, and it will surely show the critics he is prepared to take on the number #1 ranked fighter in his weight.

People have been (deservedly IMO) critical of his claim for the #1 in the weight when he only beat Gatti at a Light Welter and thus far Judah as a Welterweight.... Now he is fighting and beating the #1 and doing at a time when Baldomir's stock is at its highest.

The strange thing is that Baldo is the lineal champion. But he would lose to most of the other fighters. I mean, he deserves all the credit in the world for this career peak. He might be able to spank Joel Julio or some other prospect, and will find out faded titlists and top fighters who lack focus.

But IMO Margarito, Paul Williams, Quintana, Cotto & Collazo would beat him.


Good to see Sky are getting us coverage on the middleweights. Miranda is a nice addition.

I think Floyd will always be one of those fighters who gets criticism no matter what.

He beats a guy who up untill January was considered the #1 in the devision, but was upset cause he wasn't up for Baldomir.... gets criticised because he lost.

Okay, I agree with the criticism for that one.

Now he is fighting the man who beat Judah, and proved it wasn't he at least was a worthy belt holder vs Gatti and yet he is still facing criticism.

Who has Margarito beaten to warrant such lofty praise.... not a dig at you VM, just a general question. Yes, he looks a monster at 147, but he hasn't beaten anyone of note. The only time he stepped up and faced a fellow champion when he fought Santos and he lost and looked one dimensional.

But it would be good to see Floyd vs a welter with some firepower and strength. These Yank writers are dropping hints that he may be the greatest of all time. Subtle hints. I say prove it, Floyd.

I believe Floyd was the dog's bollocks at 130. Even though he was patchy at 135, the 2nd Castillo fight looks great for him now. But at 140 Gatti was nothing sprecial. And at 147, he has yet to fight a welter.

I don't think anyone has faith in Baldo's ability to win. I mean, Baldo wouldn't have much a chance against against Cotto, Quintana, Margarito, Williams, Collazo.; he just had some success when Judah failed to wise up. Had Judah lost his focus vs Cosme Rivera, it would be Rivera-Mayweather now for the Lineal Title (going by Cosme's 'loss' to Julio).

The welters that I rate either have the style or the physical attributes to make things very uncomfortable for Floyd.

Carlos may do better than Gatti. Because Baldo won't con himself into thinking he's a boxer. He'll try & jump on Mayweather, and hit anything. Which may actully give Floyd some uncomfortable moments. But he seems slow, doesn't punch accurately, and appears to have weight ptoblems.

This is supposed to be a historical coronation. But to me it just shows how lineal titles can be as questionable as any alphabelt.

I mean, Marg-Paul Williams & Cotto-Quintana will have a real buzz about them. And they will have appeal for the purists.

Sorry I disagree with large portions of the post, VM.

Baldomir is decent, if Mayweather does a number it shouldn't detract from the fact that Baldomir beat the lineal champion (fair in my book) and also a credible challenger in Gatti.

What has those fighters you mentioned with the possible exception of Cotto done to basically say Baldo "wouldn't have much chance". Alot of pundits thought the same when it was Gatti facing Baldomir.

Williams beat up an old Shamba Mitchell.

Margarito looked good vs Cintron, but is Cintron better than Judah? He lost to Santos.

Quintanta looks very good no doubt, but then is it down to overating Joel Julio (based on the Cosme Rivera fight - we did). Cosme Rivera has struggled at a lower level on a few occasions since the Judah loss. He was really struggling vs Reyes untill his power came home.

Collazo - looked good vs Hatton, but Hatton is no Welterweight.

Even Cotto looked average in his last two fights - fights he was supposed to win with ease. I think its too early to assume he will be a better Welter than a Light Welter, the guy hasn't even fought there yet.

I do disagree with you on the importance of the lineal titles, Bald beat "the man" - he deserves the credit, and Floyd deserve the credit for fighting him..... None of the others you mentioned have, nor took on his predocessor.

When Zab Judah OUTCLASSED Rivera, I bet no-one was thinking Margarito vs Judah is a forgone conclusion win for Antionio. Baldo beat him in a "fluke" now people are dicounting BOTH.

If you are calling it an opportunity to fight the P4P number one, then Baldo deserve it more than the others.

spot on with your points Stu, I totally agree.

You are absolutely right about Judah v Rivera, in my opinion Judah had never looked better, against an opponent who took Joel Julio to a SD a week or so ago. Magarito was definitly not begging for a Judah fight when Zab was undisputed.

Baldomir is on a run, is a massive welter and does everything well but not excellently. I think Floyd is in for more of a fight than some realise.

Ricky Hatton, a bigger light welter than floyd, found out first hand how much 7 pounds can make a difference and in Baldomir Mayweather is taking on someone stronger than Collazo. Its true Floyd has only fought 140 pounders at 147, Mitchell and Judah, and they were both southpaws. Now he is in with a live underdog and I think he needs to be commended.

On a side note, Hatton doesnt seem to come in for half s much stick as Floyd. Fighting Urango in atlanta is supposed to be building his name stateside however I feel the fight most of us wanted to see, the fight versus Floyd, may now have slipped away for good.

Very few people are giving Baldo a chance of winning more than 1 or 2 rounds. He just happens to be the lineal champ.

Judah's focus was atrocious, and he practically gave up. It was an abysmal showing. if JUdah had fought that way vs Cosme, you know what would have happened.

Baldo happens to have had some late success in his career, which is great for him. But to suggest he's a far greater challenge than skilled fresh southpaw Quintana, 6' 1 puncher Williams, the frenetic & strong Margarito, or a non-weight weakened Cotto is a bit questionable.

Baldo is tough, but slow, inaccurate, showed some stamina problems vs Gatti (looked weight weakened to me) and would've lost to Joshua Clottey had it not been for the DQ. I respect the man, but this is no superfight. It's barely even a purist's fight - unless you're a history buff.

Yes, Mayweather-Baldo follows that line of who beat who going back to the old days. But titles are so fragmented these days that the better fighters could be holding/challenging for a different belt.Lineal titles are a joke, if Shannon Briggs could be heavyweight champ for getting lucky against 47yo Foreman.

It's common for ppl to be defensive about Mayweather these days. There's nothing much to brag about opposiiton-wise, despite him being in one of the most talent deep divisions around.


It is said far too much that so and so doesn't deserve to fight Mayweather. Well, if Mayweather is supposed to be the best welter, and if he's going to hold publication approved titles, then isn't it his duty to beat all & sundry? To show how fvcking great he really is?

Stu, I knew you were going to do that You've gone out of your way to undermine each man systematically. & yet a compelling case could be made for each man. Far more able fighters than Baldo, and most would be significant faves to beat the Argie. Wouldn't anyone, eg, love to see Floyd against a southpaw that wasn't shot? He would have plenty to choose from at 147

Drop me a pm if you want a link to a free live stream for the Mayweather fight and the Briggs fight

Make sure you keep the info hush hush

Baldomir has achieved more recently, than all of those fighters you have mentioned VM. Cotto doesn't want the fight yet. Margarito has really been hyped up through the internet. If Tony wants to prove he's the best, then stop turning down Paul Williams.

lvlarc_uk wrote:Baldomir has achieved more recently, than all of those fighters you have mentioned VM. Cotto doesn't want the fight yet. Margarito has really been hyped up through the internet. If Tony wants to prove he's the best, then stop turning down Paul Williams.

Marg is fighting Williams after the tough Clottey (Clottey was beating Baldo before DQ'd). Marg has beaten Cintron, Antonio Diaz, Andrew Lewis, Al Ankamah. He's defended his title 6 times & is a physical threat to Floyd. Just what we want to see!

Paul Williams has a solid win over Walter Mathysse, hits like a mule and stands a massive 6' 1. Quintana looked special vs Julio - certainly a better challenge to Mayweather than Sharmbah Mitchell was.

Cotto might not be so vulnerable at 147. IF he beats Quintana, he's a major force.


What I'm getting at is, Baldo is a respectable fight. Not an exceptional fight. I know we all like seeing a master at work, & I might be a bit of a miser spoiling the fun. But does any ONE person on here think that Baldo wins? At the same time, there are mouth watering fights for Floyd at 147 pounds.

I can't get excited about Floyd-Baldo. I just can't. But I watch all fights available, so I will stay up.

It's like being given a plate of bread & dripping and believing that it's the meal of your dreams. You con yourself, and merely make do, never questioning the mediocrity.

I give Baldo his dues. No one can take his achievements away. But this isn't much better than Hatton-Maussa

Marg has accepted Williams now has he? About time, where did you read that ?

Sure, not many people think Baldo will win (some do on current scene) but I'd say the same would go for every other 147'lbr against Floyd.

Those mouth watering fights would be Hatton, Cotto, Margarito and maybe Williams. 2 of which have refused the fight. Margarito has been spending too much time accusing PBF of "ducking" him (or atleast Arum has) rather then get some wins against top 10 opp. He should fight Judah or Williams.

I really don't know how to take Mayweather. As a fighter he is multi talented and i think destined to become a great but as a person he is hot and cold. After Valuev-Barrett he was interviewed and came across as a pleasant, well mannered guy who praised Valuev and showed respect for Baldomir.

Then in the pre-fight press conference he is shown chucking water at the Argentine and spouting off the sort of classless shit he did at Gatti. What is with this fella?

viciousmaussa wrote: Al Ankamah.

When someone has to include him as one of Margarito's notable wins, well that speaks volumes

lvlarc_uk wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote: Al Ankamah.

When someone has to include him as one of Margarito's notable wins, well that speaks volumes

That was a good win. Ankamah was on good form, but never again after getting ripped up. Marg was about 17, if I remember properly. AA had won 15 of 16 by KO, was a big fave, and had a swelling reputation.


Cliff Rold and Doug Fischer make compelling cases for Margarito.

Ringtalk's Rold (comments section of his last column): "LOL at people who say Margarito was no one until a few months ago. Ring ran a full feature on how great a battle between mayorga and his number one contender would be right after the second Forrest fight. Margarito has beaten five legit, Ring and alpahbelt ranked top ten contenders at 147 since 2002. That's more than anyone else has even fought. Clottey would be six and if forced to take his mando with Williams next, and he beat them both, that would be seven. SEVEN top ten contenders. Contrast that with Floyd. IF he beats baldo and won't face marg, he would be the sixth welter champ in five years ad still no fight for Marg. Those kinds of politics are why Boxing goes yahoo, a 300K buy PPV" for BIG fights when that number used to be considered a failure. "

Fischer's Friday Mailbag (week before last) "Look, Margarito proved that he’s a welterweight to watch when he stopped then undefeated Sergio Martinez in seven rounds back in 2000 and then KO’d Antonio Diaz in 10 rounds to win the WBO title in 2002. Martinez hasn’t lost since the Margarito fight, has rung off 22 consecutive wins (beating a few notable European fighters along the way) and is now world rated at 154 pounds. Margarito gets NO respect for this victory. Diaz had ONE loss in his last THIRTY fights going into that Margarito fight, and that loss was to a prime Shane Mosley (35-0 with 32 KOs at the time). Diaz had beaten the likes of Cory Spinks, Micky Ward, Ivan Robinson, Emanuel Augustus, and a two-round blow-out of Alberto Cortes (the last guy to beat Baldomir). Margarito gets NO respect for this victory.

I think Margarito proved himself to be a worthy title holder by shutting out giant Danny Perez over 12 rounds in his first defense, and he proved that he’s the best welterweight out there by TKOing then undefeated Kermit Cintron, literally boxing the ears off of Sebastian Lujan, and blowing out Andrew Lewis, Hercules Kyvelos, and Manuel Gomez (and say what you will about “Shotgun”, but no one had ever blasted him the way Margarito did and he’s lost to far better fighters than Baldomir)."


But what are Mayweather's significant 147 wins? Oh, I forgot they were light welters coming off losses. FM might have distinguished himself at super feather and lightweight, but how far can his reputation carry him?


Anyhow, I doubt Mayweather would be a huge favorite over some of those welters I mention. He was a small lightweight, and there are some very good proper welters there. He has brittle hands, his footwork has been greatly reduced (or refined) and he's easier to hit these days.

For sheer strength & insistence, Margarito would give him absolute hell. Based on his size and power, Williams would present a physical risk that would be hard for Mayweather to deal with. FM can beat an already destroyed Mitchell, but why is everyone so sure he'd do the same to Collazo and Quintana?

I jut can't believe the # of ppl that want to undermine genuinely tasty matchups just to try and elevate Floyd's antics over the past 3 or 4 years.


I hope I am wrong about Baldomir. I'd like nothing more than to see a good fight. He did good things against Gatti & Judah, but you'd think he's ponderous way of fighting would play right into Mayweather. Baldomir is an honest unpretentious bloke, and I'd hate to see him get humiliated by someone as

Well Ankamah may of been fav since Tony already had 3 losses and was pretty poor. Just look at his record W20/L11 mostly against subpar opp. If your going to hype Margarito up atleast mention the better names like Martinez/Perez/Kyvelos

I find it strange though that you think Mayweather/Baldomir is dull, but a clash with Margarito would be mouthwatering. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Mayweather fight Hatton/Cotto/Margarito too, but Baldomir is "the man" and his win over Judah is better than every win on Margarito's ledger.

I think Baldomir may be matched with Margarito should he lose tonight.

Where did you read that Margarito has accepted the Paul Williams fight?

BTW, I'd give Williams more of a chance than Tony to beat PBF.

Apparently Williams was outboxing Margarito in sparring too.

All this criticism of Floyd for not fighting the best, yet you have a problem with Taylor being in top 5 P4P and he fought the absolute best.

Also, even though I have money on Floyd tonight. I'd love to see Baldomir win 3 straight upsets in a row.

So, after beating the abnormally slow and wide punching Baldomir, what the hell does that prove for Mayweather?

Does anyone think because Baldomir couldn't do shit, that it would be the same for Margarito or Quintana?

After seeing Paul Williams tonight, Margarito must be rubbing his hands together. For that matter, he'd be doing the same for Floyd - that is, if he ever would face him.

It is presumed that Marg faces Williams after the tough Clottey. I doubt that he'd vacate his belt for Williams.

Mayweather-Baldomir was certainly dull. This was passed off as a big spectacle & I pity anyone who fell for it.


Lvark - Who's hyping him? I'm making a case for Margarito, when everyone is going out of their way to DISCREDIT him. I added Ankamah - a fight well before Marg's title days - because the man was a good fighter back then & considered improving. Have you seen the fight?

"All this criticism of Floyd for not fighting the best, yet you have a problem with Taylor being in top 5 P4P and he fought the absolute best. "

Wow, you tried to make me look a double standard hypocrite. Well, all you have to do is put it in perspective. Taylor has CONTROVERSIAL and UNCONVINCING results vs the best. Ageing best at that...While ppl like you feel that Mayweather doesn't need to fight some of those excellent welters, I'm sure Floyd will get away with it. Enough Yanks - only the gullible variety - will buy the PPV so this shit can go on forever.

"atleast mention the better names like Martinez/Perez/Kyvelos "
Why do you think I pasted those extracts?

When have I ever said Floyd

doesn't need to fight some of those excellent welters

?

I haven't, I just said Baldomir has achieved more than Margarito with his wins over Judah and Gatti and deserved the payday, he was the man, rated number 1 by almost every single independent ranking.

As to you thinking that fight was "dull" Then that may show your complete ignorance to Mayweathers talent, it was a boxing masterclass AND he would do just the same against the wild looping telegraphed punches of Margarito. Let the fight happen, just don't be shocked when Tony get's totally outclassed

Also I'd still like to know, you said Margarito has accepted the fight with Williams, where did you read that?

Shit, Beyer has nightmares with Bika, is 35 y/o travels for the first time in years and gets stopped by Kessler,. The result was obviously already known before hand, and you think its a GREAT win for Kessler.

Question, should Floyd and Tony fight, what do you see happening?

I haven't seen enough of Quintana to judge him.... but yep, I think Floyd would put on a clinic vs Margarito and dominate him.

stujones wrote:I haven't seen enough of Quintana to judge him....

he's good.

i've seen him twice and have been really impressed.

excellent southpaw and has a good defence up close.

i favour him to beat cotto.

lvlarc_uk wrote:When have I ever said Floyd

doesn't need to fight some of those excellent welters

?

I haven't, I just said Baldomir has achieved more than Margarito with his wins over Judah and Gatti and deserved the payday, he was the man, rated number 1 by almost every single independent ranking.

As to you thinking that fight was "dull" Then that may show your complete ignorance to Mayweathers talent, it was a boxing masterclass AND he would do just the same against the wild looping telegraphed punches of Margarito. Let the fight happen, just don't be shocked when Tony get's totally outclassed

Also I'd still like to know, you said Margarito has accepted the fight with Williams, where did you read that?

Shit, Beyer has nightmares with Bika, is 35 y/o travels for the first time in years and gets stopped by Kessler,. The result was obviously already known before hand, and you think its a GREAT win for Kessler.

Question, should Floyd and Tony fight, what do you see happening?

Pathetic.

You act like Floyd has nothing to prove.

Margarito is a level above Baldo. What do you think Marg would've done to Judah & Gatti??

if you think what you saw last night was good, then you're a plebian who'll settle for anything.

Well, Baldo contributed a fair bit to Mayweather's masterclass, didn't he? By being so slow and wide with his shots.

No one thought he was going to win, so it's a good job Floyd won all 12 rounds.


Margarito-Mayweather would be nothing like this. Marg throws a lot of punches and feels he can march through anything. While not a technically elegant fighter, he would make Floyd fvcking work. I don't think Floyd's heart is in it. He doesn't want the inconvenience of a hard fight. & it would be hard.


Kessler's win over Beyer was very good. And it should have set him up for great fights. But the great fight won't answer & HBO naturally gravitate to the guy who doesn't want to fight anyone. So Kessler's getting ready to fight the best available. Some excellent opponents out there for Kessler - like Andrade, Mundine II and Bute. His next fight will most probably be Andrade in Canada with Bute-Tatev undercard.

(Beyer had been world class since 1999. He had an up & down career. But he was always world class. Baldo isn't even world class - maybe world class heart/toughness, but no world class skill or punch delivery. Baldo got lucky vs an unfocused Judah. & then was handed a gimme, in a battered old Gatti)

Kessler doesn't need Duck Calzaghe. He has strong challengers to define himself against.

Mayweather has an equally appealing list of top ten fighters to prove himself against. But do you think he will fight them? No way. He wants a cash in fight then retire.

Thanks fvck for fighters like Kessler & Taylor. It's not too much to ask for them to take on top 10 boxers from their own divisions.

This used to be the norm; now it's the exception.

I gave up on boxing - admittedly when I was a casual fan - when Hopkins took on Carl Daniels/Hakker & when MAB settled for little Tapia & old Kelley. But last night was an even worse waste of talent, time and money.

Dress it up all you want people. Your reasoning is about a kitsch & lacking in class as that clunky plastic armour that Floyd wore into the ring.

viciousmaussa wrote:So, after beating the abnormally slow and wide punching Baldomir, what the hell does that prove for Mayweather??

Ermmmm his punches are more compact and accurate than Margarito and he has a tighter defense, and is as fast as Margarito. Margarito beats him on power and combinations

Margarito does possess a tough style to bring to Floyd but hes not a level about Baldomir. I think Baldomir-Margarito would be a close contest