BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DG. wrote:

overhand_right wrote:Robert McCracken competed a higher level than Williams, and achieved more.

Saying Williams is better qualified is wishful thinking.

Agreed, roll on december 15!!

By the tme Eastman got to him - Mccracken was on his last legs..

THAT IS A FACT.


Achieving more does not mean you are automatically better.

See Eubank Benn and Herol Graham...Not trying to make comparisons.

Define 'better' then. Ultimately achievement is everything, anything else is just bullshit and supposition. For instance, everyone is always going on about how incredible Kirkland Laing was, but aside from a win over a demotivated Robert Duran, he never managed to put anything together outside of domestic level. Yes yes, Herol was a magnificent fighter, could avoid being hit with his hands behind his back etc, but when it mattered most, he fell short. Eubank and Benn's careers were far more impressive because when it mattered most, they came through. That's the acid test, can you cut the mustard when your bollocks are on the line, not what you might have done had this that the other been different.

Whether McCracken was on his last legs or not I don't know, but I do know that in recent times, Eastman has fallen short and looked very lack lustre in his biggest bouts, and whilst he is in with someone he would almost certainly have beaten a few years back, who knows what will happen now. I think it quite possible that Williams will want it more, and that Howard may well let yet another fight slip away only to complain of being robbed afterwards.

DG. wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DG. wrote:

By the tme Eastman got to him - Mccracken was on his last legs..

THAT IS A FACT.


Achieving more does not mean you are automatically better.

See Eubank Benn and Herol Graham...Not trying to make comparisons.

Define 'better' then. Ultimately achievement is everything, anything else is just bullshit and supposition. For instance, everyone is always going on about how incredible Kirkland Laing was, but aside from a win over a demotivated Robert Duran, he never managed to put anything together outside of domestic level. Yes yes, Herol was a magnificent fighter, could avoid being hit with his hands behind his back etc, but when it mattered most, he fell short. Eubank and Benn's careers were far more impressive because when it mattered most, they came through. That's the acid test, can you cut the mustard when your bollocks are on the line, not what you might have done had this that the other been different.

Whether McCracken was on his last legs or not I don't know, but I do know that in recent times, Eastman has fallen short and looked very lack lustre in his biggest bouts, and whilst he is in with someone he would almost certainly have beaten a few years back, who knows what will happen now. I think it quite possible that Williams will want it more, and that Howard may well let yet another fight slip away only to complain of being robbed afterwards.

It is about opportnites and who you get the opportunities against.

Herol Graham fought McCululm - Kalumbay and Jackson.

He NEVER won a world title.

Benn And Eubank would not have beaten the 3 mentioned above...imo - so they went on to win World Crowns against easier opposition..imo.



Howard may show some hunger but not for mire than 5 rounds imo.

RW Pts win or maybe.....even better!..

Watching Williams Vs Adkrap again - RW sharpens up a bit on that performance and he beats Howard.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DG. wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Define 'better' then. Ultimately achievement is everything, anything else is just bullshit and supposition. For instance, everyone is always going on about how incredible Kirkland Laing was, but aside from a win over a demotivated Robert Duran, he never managed to put anything together outside of domestic level. Yes yes, Herol was a magnificent fighter, could avoid being hit with his hands behind his back etc, but when it mattered most, he fell short. Eubank and Benn's careers were far more impressive because when it mattered most, they came through. That's the acid test, can you cut the mustard when your bollocks are on the line, not what you might have done had this that the other been different.

Whether McCracken was on his last legs or not I don't know, but I do know that in recent times, Eastman has fallen short and looked very lack lustre in his biggest bouts, and whilst he is in with someone he would almost certainly have beaten a few years back, who knows what will happen now. I think it quite possible that Williams will want it more, and that Howard may well let yet another fight slip away only to complain of being robbed afterwards.

It is about opportnites and who you get the opportunities against.

Herol Graham fought McCululm - Kalumbay and Jackson.

He NEVER won a world title.

Benn And Eubank would not have beaten the 3 mentioned above...imo - so they went on to win World Crowns against easier opposition..imo.



Howard may show some hunger but not for mire than 5 rounds imo.

RW Pts win or maybe.....even better!..

Watching Williams Vs Adkrap again - RW sharpens up a bit on that performance and he beats Howard.

Benn would not have beaten McCallum, that is for certain, Kalambay, well perhaps, but he did beat DeWitt, Barklay, and of course Eubank and McClellan, a fight with Jackson would have been a toss up, because Jackson had the same assests as Benn, power, and a shaky chin, but Benn had more heart. Jackson was also a smaller man and not as powerful physically as Benn.

All in all, Benn's resume is more impressive that Graham's.

DG. wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DG. wrote:


It is about opportnites and who you get the opportunities against.

Herol Graham fought McCululm - Kalumbay and Jackson.

He NEVER won a world title.

Benn And Eubank would not have beaten the 3 mentioned above...imo - so they went on to win World Crowns against easier opposition..imo.



Howard may show some hunger but not for mire than 5 rounds imo.

RW Pts win or maybe.....even better!..

Watching Williams Vs Adkrap again - RW sharpens up a bit on that performance and he beats Howard.

Benn would not have beaten McCallum, that is for certain, Kalambay, well perhaps, but he did beat DeWitt, Barklay, and of course Eubank and McClellan, a fight with Jackson would have been a toss up, because Jackson had the same assests as Benn, power, and a shaky chin, but Benn had more heart. Jackson was also a smaller man and not as powerful physically as Benn.

All in all, Benn's resume is more impressive that Graham's.

I think Jackon would have beaten Benn.

Mccullum and McClellan stopped Jackson.

Watson stpped Bannand Eubank.

Still - Graham would have beaten Benn?.. I think so.


RW Pts 12 HE.




l

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DG. wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Benn would not have beaten McCallum, that is for certain, Kalambay, well perhaps, but he did beat DeWitt, Barklay, and of course Eubank and McClellan, a fight with Jackson would have been a toss up, because Jackson had the same assests as Benn, power, and a shaky chin, but Benn had more heart. Jackson was also a smaller man and not as powerful physically as Benn.

All in all, Benn's resume is more impressive that Graham's.

I think Jackon would have beaten Benn.

Mccullum and McClellan stopped Jackson.

Watson stpped Bannand Eubank.

Still - Graham would have beaten Benn?.. I think so.


RW Pts 12 HE.




l

Watson stopped Benn, he did not stop Eubank.

You may think Jackson would have beaten Benn, but fact is, that Benn went on to beat his conqueror in one of the most brutal fights ever seen in Britain. Benn showed courage and an ability to win that Graham never showed in his career, he found a way to win when the odds were 1000 to 1 on him winning after that disastrous first round. What Benn lacked in guile and technique, he made up for with iron will and undending determination. Would Graham have beaten him, possibly the Benn who lost to Watson yes, but what about the second coming of Benn, that's a different strory, he may well have been winning the fight before succumbing to a late onslaught as he did against Jackson.

Slapsie Maxie wrote:Your point is well made, James, but what happened in Graham/Jackson is not really a "late onslaught" just getting cold cocked for popping the jab out twice

Eastman will go down as a "should've/would've" fighter who had the tools to go the whole way but seemed to have an off switch whenever he stepped in to a championship ring

Slapsie

DG. wrote:

nickd wrote:Maybe McCracken just wasn't that good to begin with.

Look at hs record and judge for yourself.

Good Domestic at best.


http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=8927

Terence wrote:Howard has mixed in a high class yet he did not beat Joppy when he had a great chance, flopped versus Hopkins and in my opinion dropped down a class slightly (from Hopkins) when he fought Arthur then dropped further when he fought Miranda.

Miranda can easily be out-boxed, Howard looks like a fighter falling back through the classes to me.

overhand_right wrote:Fools. Don't lean upon your own understanding, just believe.

Overhands legendary Crystal Ball, which has forseen many a violently accurate prediction on Boxrec dating back to 2000/01 sees a big night for Howard...

The Ball has spoken.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I can remember Howard looking very ordinary against Tatevosyan some time ago, and he wasn't even a world class operator. His best performance in relatively recent times, was his win over ancient frenchman Hacine Cherifi and that seems an age ago now.

overhand_right wrote:Now Eastman even 'lost' to Tatevoysan...? The smell of bias wafts through the air on British Scene, causing overhand to wretch.. I guess Sam Soliman and Jerry Elliot also beat Howard? In fact any fight that went to points that Howard was involved in saw him lose no doubt?

I thought he just nicked it v Joppy for what its worth. A night that will live in infamy! A lot of you felt he was robbed at the time, but growing & completely unfair animosity towards HE over the last 5 years has clouded your views of what really did happen.

For shame!

HE will reduce Richard Williams into a messy pile of concussed flesh, and the smiling handsome face in the front row will be that of The Overhanded One, knowing he will be on boxrec the following day, participating in his favourite hobby of Crow Watching.

DG. wrote:
Whatever the result - both of them would last a lot longer than you in a Pro Boxing Ring.

overhand_right wrote:Now Eastman even 'lost' to Tatevoysan...? The smell of bias wafts through the air on British Scene, causing overhand to wretch.. I guess Sam Soliman and Jerry Elliot also beat Howard? In fact any fight that went to points that Howard was involved in saw him lose no doubt?

I thought he just nicked it v Joppy for what its worth. A night that will live in infamy! A lot of you felt he was robbed at the time, but growing & completely unfair animosity towards HE over the last 5 years has clouded your views of what really did happen.

For shame!

HE will reduce Richard Williams into a messy pile of concussed flesh, and the smiling handsome face in the front row will be that of The Overhanded One, knowing he will be on boxrec the following day, participating in his favourite hobby of Crow Watching.

overhand_right wrote:Fools. Don't lean upon your own understanding, just believe.

Overhands legendary Crystal Ball, which has forseen many a violently accurate prediction on Boxrec dating back to 2000/01 sees a big night for Howard...

The Ball has spoken.