BoxRec

Many of the issues mentioed previously wouldn't be as much of a problem if there was a legitimate organization running the sport, who would make a TV deal with a major network. (ABC, NBC, CBS, or FOX)

ESPN2 is available in about 90 million homes in the United States. The situation wouldn't be so bad if ESPN2 didn't choose quantity or quality and show low level fights on a weekly basis. They apparently figure it's better business sense by not having high budget cost(paying bigger names bigger money) and having lower ratings. These fights simply don't appeal to wide mass of people.

HBO and Showtime pay the fighters much better and naturally have better fights. However, HBO is only in about 28 million homes in the United States and Showtime is only available in about 13-14 million.
The result of all of this that most people have no idea who even the very top fighters are.

Not only is Football, Basketball,Baseball, and Hockey much more popular than boxing, sports such as Golf, NASCAR, and Tennis is more popular in the United States.

A respected organization that runs the sport and has a TV deal with a major network is the only real hope to reverse the decline in the popularity of boxing in the United States.

Decagon wrote:Australia doesn't count. It isn't even a real country.

Why isnt Australia a real country Dec?

Decagon wrote:There is no decline in boxing. Just a shift in fan base.

Yeah, to other sports. :(

Ambling Alp wrote:Many of the issues mentioed previously wouldn't be as much of a problem if there was a legitimate organization running the sport, who would make a TV deal with a major network. (ABC, NBC, CBS, or FOX)

ESPN2 is available in about 90 million homes in the United States. The situation wouldn't be so bad if ESPN2 didn't choose quantity or quality and show low level fights on a weekly basis. They apparently figure it's better business sense by not having high budget cost(paying bigger names bigger money) and having lower ratings. These fights simply don't appeal to wide mass of people.

HBO and Showtime pay the fighters much better and naturally have better fights. However, HBO is only in about 28 million homes in the United States and Showtime is only available in about 13-14 million.
The result of all of this that most people have no idea who even the very top fighters are.

Not only is Football, Basketball,Baseball, and Hockey much more popular than boxing, sports such as Golf, NASCAR, and Tennis is more popular in the United States.

A respected organization that runs the sport and has a TV deal with a major network is the only real hope to reverse the decline in the popularity of boxing in the United States.

Thats a good point, the main guy ESPN would show was Brian Minto. They would always frame it in such a way that they were showcasing him as an up and coming fighter. I think in the upcoming season they will show a lot of fighters who were on the condender because they think that will give them some name recognition. The biggest fights they will show will always be classic reruns. But as you said not enough quality fights.

Too many titles and a lack of star quality heavyweights is the reason for the current decline in the sport.
It's ludicrous having 3-4 'world' champions in one weight.
And the heavies are still,and always will be the flagship division of the sport.
We need an Ali,Louis,Foreman,Tyson,Marciano type to generate some excitement and interest.

I don't buy into the talk of basketball,gridiron etc taking the best athletes,thus robbing boxing of prospective champs.
Being good at Basketball don't mean shit when it comes to boxing.Same as gridiron.
The great fighters were and always will have to be more than just great athletes.

The answer is simple and some have already touched on it.
Pay TV has killed Boxing for the masses.
The greedy capitalist profiteers have raped our sport.

I watch a lot of the old fights and am amazed at the fact that ABC, NBC & CBS showed all championship fights free-to-air in the 70's & the early 80's. Coincedentally a golden age for boxing. FREE-TO-AIR people! CBS Saturday sports show, NBC sportsworld, ABC Wide World of Sports.
aaaaah the good 'ol days.

el tigre del sur wrote:The answer is simple and some have already touched on it.
Pay TV has killed Boxing for the masses.
The greedy capitalist profiteers have raped our sport.

I watch a lot of the old fights and am amazed at the fact that ABC, NBC & CBS showed all championship fights free-to-air in the 70's & the early 80's. Coincedentally a golden age for boxing. FREE-TO-AIR people! CBS Saturday sports show, NBC sportsworld, ABC Wide World of Sports.
aaaaah the good 'ol days.

I agree some promoters have been greedy but you will have that with or without capitalism. Capitalism is what has enabled boxing and other sports to flourish. A guy thinks he wants to get into the fight game so he trains, makes money at it, people come to watch it, are entertained so they spend more money to see more boxing , fighter earns still more money because of it and on it goes. See, it all works out. :)

kick asner wrote: I agree some promoters have been greedy but you will have that with or without capitalism. Capitalism is what has enabled boxing and other sports to flourish. A guy thinks he wants to get into the fight game so he trains, makes money at it, people come to watch it, are entertained so they spend more money to see more boxing , fighter earns still more money because of it and on it goes. See, it all works out. :)

How do you explain the success of Cuban amateur boxing then?
I'm talking about the slime that profiteer and exploit boxing for their own monetary benefit.

el tigre del sur wrote:

kick asner wrote: I agree some promoters have been greedy but you will have that with or without capitalism. Capitalism is what has enabled boxing and other sports to flourish. A guy thinks he wants to get into the fight game so he trains, makes money at it, people come to watch it, are entertained so they spend more money to see more boxing , fighter earns still more money because of it and on it goes. See, it all works out. :)

How do you explain the success of Cuban amateur boxing then?
I'm talking about the slime that profiteer and exploit boxing for their own monetary benefit.

I do get you're drift when it comes to promoters, I just don't see capitalism as a problem.

This thread is almost 4 years old. Do people still stand by this?

I can't talk about America but boxing seems to be having a revival in other parts of the world.

I am a big fan of the Super Six as a format. The main reason being that fighters can lose without it impacting on their earnings. I'm also a huge fan of the rematch.

Would like to hear what people think now and what newcomers have to say.

I'd say it's a combination of factors. For one, Boxing isn't available as easily on free TV in the U.S. and even the Basic Cable networks usually show fights that are pretty paltry. HBO and Showtime have virtual strangleholds on the bigger names and guys can't even get basic exposure on the networks like they used too. There used to be Larry Holmes fights on Saturday on NBC or ABC among others and HBO would only be involved in the bigger events.

On top of that you've got the proliferation of titles which along with the silly money being thrown around by HBO and such, allows a number of fighters to make a lot of money for little risk and have plenty of built-in excuses for avoiding their toughest potential opponents (not wanting to be stripped). This also leads promoters to be lazy. Promoters don't promote much anymore so guys who would've been household names in past eras like the Marquez bros. Vazquez, Williams, Martinez, Dawson, etc. hardly get any notice. The fighters essentially have to promote themselves to get anywhere, like Floyd Mayweather did, only most fighters are pretty passive in personality, so they shy away from the cameras. If Boxing was filled with cocky James Toneys, Floyd Mayweathers, Bernard Hopkins, and even foreign guys with attitude like Montiel, Miranda, Mayorga and Caballero it would be a bigger deal because those guys can talk the talk and get attention.

Expug wrote:There was a time when physical toughness and fighting ability was respected in a man.
Not so much anymore.
It starts early. If a kid gets in a fight at school , the authorities want to throw the kid in the joint. Or call the intervention counselors to find out whats wrong with little Johnny.
Males are becoming candy asses . Emasculated.
Boxing? To most of the walking dead in society its savagery .

This!! Combined with boxing not being on tv without being ppv.

other then Baseball,boxing was a favorite sport in America up till around early 1960's.
They still use to have boxing teams in high school and in college up till around the 1950's.
Check out the documentary"Day of the Fight" in the other thread.
That will give you a feeling of Boxing Americana.

I don't know...

Shit Heavyweights?

Expug wrote:There was a time when physical toughness and fighting ability was respected in a man.
Not so much anymore.
It starts early. If a kid gets in a fight at school , the authorities want to throw the kid in the joint. Or call the intervention counselors to find out whats wrong with little Johnny.
Males are becoming candy asses . Emasculated.
Boxing? To most of the walking dead in society its savagery .

Wise words, my friend, wise words.

I think it is the lack of great white american boxers hurt the sport after the mid 80's. Im going to stick with that time frame although its clear from reading old magazines that the older white demographic was disenchanted with the lack of great white boxers from the 1960's point onwards.

Ironically in the near future what might hurt boxing in America more is the lack of great black american boxers.

I think for sure a part of the popularity of UFC in America is the fact there are so many great white american fighters like Matt Hughes, Rich Franklin, Randy Couture, to name but a few. Every day american blue collar heroes who can really fight and have been champions.

It does seem to me more young white americans gravitate towards MMA these days than boxing due to the fact it is is cooler and trendier and easier to get into.

Of course they try and get into American Football or baseball or basketball first, but the ones who lean towards fighting for whatever reason will go into MMA before boxing.

In the UK it is still boxing that rules and youngsters will go into that as the UK has no UFC of its own, and hell even in the USA, UFC athletes (outside of the 7-8 stars) are paid peanuts compared to what a good domestic British boxer can make on the british circuit. That may sound like an outlandish statement but people are always shocked at how little UFC fighters make.

Ezzard wrote:This thread is almost 4 years old. Do people still stand by this?

I can't talk about America but boxing seems to be having a revival in other parts of the world.

I am a big fan of the Super Six as a format. The main reason being that fighters can lose without it impacting on their earnings. I'm also a huge fan of the rematch.

Would like to hear what people think now and what newcomers have to say.

If anythiong boxing is even less popular in the US than it was 4 years ago. I'm not sure if people from outside the United States realize how much boxing has declined. for decades it was the #2 sport. Even until the 1980s it was probably #4 and shown on free TV fairly regularly. Very few people care about it anymore. Let me put it this way; when there is a big fight, it does not usually even mentioned in the newspaper that I live in. About a year ago, Wladimir Klitschko had a fight. I found out out about a few days after the fight.

There are a lot of reasons for the decline, many of which have been mentioned. The big one is of course TV. If you don't have HBO or atleast Showtime (and most people don't) you really can't be a boxing fan. Thats really the bottom line.

UFC, Lack of American Heavyweight Champion, lack of coverage on Sportscenter. Too name a few

Ambling Alp wrote:

Ezzard wrote:This thread is almost 4 years old. Do people still stand by this?

I can't talk about America but boxing seems to be having a revival in other parts of the world.

I am a big fan of the Super Six as a format. The main reason being that fighters can lose without it impacting on their earnings. I'm also a huge fan of the rematch.

Would like to hear what people think now and what newcomers have to say.

If anythiong boxing is even less popular in the US than it was 4 years ago. I'm not sure if people from outside the United States realize how much boxing has declined. for decades it was the #2 sport. Even until the 1980s it was probably #4 and shown on free TV fairly regularly. Very few people care about it anymore. Let me put it this way; when there is a big fight, it does not usually even mentioned in the newspaper that I live in. About a year ago, Wladimir Klitschko had a fight. I found out out about a few days after the fight.

There are a lot of reasons for the decline, many of which have been mentioned. The big one is of course TV. If you don't have HBO or atleast Showtime (and most people don't) you really can't be a boxing fan. Thats really the bottom line.

The newspapers over here neglect the sport unless a UK fighter is in a big fight.

I think the promoters took the big bucks from cable TV when it came out but that now means that the sport as a whole is smaller. Nobody other than die-hards knows who the boxers are. I’m surprised that the big promoters in the Uk don’t just give highlighted versions of the fights away a week after they’ve aired live. Fighters need exposure.

One thing I notice, and like, is that boxing is more international now then when I was a kid. There are fighters from all over the world in The Ring ratings.

UFC is popular but it doesn’t really put on many shows and most people who like UFC like boxing too.

Ezzard wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:

Ezzard wrote:This thread is almost 4 years old. Do people still stand by this?

I can't talk about America but boxing seems to be having a revival in other parts of the world.

I am a big fan of the Super Six as a format. The main reason being that fighters can lose without it impacting on their earnings. I'm also a huge fan of the rematch.

Would like to hear what people think now and what newcomers have to say.

If anythiong boxing is even less popular in the US than it was 4 years ago. I'm not sure if people from outside the United States realize how much boxing has declined. for decades it was the #2 sport. Even until the 1980s it was probably #4 and shown on free TV fairly regularly. Very few people care about it anymore. Let me put it this way; when there is a big fight, it does not usually even mentioned in the newspaper that I live in. About a year ago, Wladimir Klitschko had a fight. I found out out about a few days after the fight.

There are a lot of reasons for the decline, many of which have been mentioned. The big one is of course TV. If you don't have HBO or atleast Showtime (and most people don't) you really can't be a boxing fan. Thats really the bottom line.

The newspapers over here neglect the sport unless a UK fighter is in a big fight.

I think the promoters took the big bucks from cable TV when it came out but that now means that the sport as a whole is smaller. Nobody other than die-hards knows who the boxers are. I’m surprised that the big promoters in the Uk don’t just give highlighted versions of the fights away a week after they’ve aired live. Fighters need exposure.

One thing I notice, and like, is that boxing is more international now then when I was a kid. There are fighters from all over the world in The Ring ratings.

UFC is popular but it doesn’t really put on many shows and most people who like UFC like boxing too.

Very true. In Mexico Boxing is still shown regularly on regular free TV, including world championship fights involving the likes of Segura and Montiel. Japan gets HUGE TV ratings for Boxing, which is part of why Teiken promotions was able to lure the likes of Valero and Linares among others there, because they were gonna get seriously paid in Japan even as foreigners. Ricardo Lopez made so much cash in Japan, that he really didn't enter into the American psyche until later in his career when the sportswriters suddenly realized how he was dominating his division. Thailand has a good number of fighters with plenty of the general public practicing Muay Thai, making for a fairly large talent pool to draw from, thus good popularity.

Then in most other countries if there is a world champion or contener from there, you can bet that they're a major celebrity in said country. Joseph Agbeko was getting visits from the president of Ghana much like Azumah Nelson and Ike Quartey received before him. Roman Gonzalez is huge in Nicaragua, as were Mayorga and Arguello. Argentina, Venezuela, Colombia, and Panama all seem to love Boxing as well, as the recent popularity of guys like Valero, Narvaez, Ricardo Torres, and Celestino Caballero has shown. Joan Guzman is a big draw in the DR as well.

I think it's one of those things where most of the countries mentioned don't really have as many other distractions as does the U.S. either for entertainment or for sports. We have the NFL, NBA, MLB, and more fringe sports like Golf Tennis etc. to distract us and get us to pay attention to, while other countries mainly focus on just Soccer and beyond that not much else but Boxing because it's a worldwide sport as well that's easy to get involved in. So when a fighter emerges as an elite-level fighter and/or even just a World Champion of an abc org. it's a big deal to their countrymen.

In the end boxing declined b/c other sports (and opportunities) provided safer, more viable economic alternative for young adult males, PERIOD. All of the arguments about free tv and corrupt sanctioning bodies are stings of a bee compared to the fact that boxing declined as the U.S. grew its middle class post World War II and young adult males received more education. The arrival of the NBA and the NFL as national sports, along with the major salaries those sports provide, also ensured that any young adults looking at athletic careers will be steered to those less streneous (and yes, better regulated) athletic fields.

Honestly, if I knew a kid who pursued boxing at 18 over a basketball scholarship I'd say he was a moron.

Well yes, if someone was that good at basketaball or football I would encourage them to do that over boxing as well. Then again, most people aren't that good at both boxing and another sport.

Most people don't really ever actually box ( at least seriously) as a kid or teeanger like they used to. In many parts of the United States there simply isn't a place to do that. Besides, they don't see it on TV so they don't aspire to do it.

The fact that there are more opportinities to make a decent living outside of boxing than there was pre-World War II is true. Naturally that means a lower a % of people will take it up. However, not every boxer came from poor backgrounds. It has to be more than the social economic thing, especially as far as the fan base. You have to believe that that there has to be more reasons why the interest in boxing dropped so much.

Americans will watch athletes from other countries. Most NHL hockey players are form Canada. Many Major League baseball players are from other countries. Most top tennis players are from other various parts of the world. However, we are longer interested in boxing like we used to be.

The NFL and NBA did hurt boxing. That is also another reason. However, they became popular in the late 1950s and early 1960s. However, Boxing was still a major sport until the 1980s. It just dropped form #2 to about #4 or #5. Now it probably is not even in the top 10 favorite sports of Americans. I have to believe that if boxing would not have taken the Pay Per View route it would still be somewhat popular.

Sadly, I do think that it may be too late for it to make a comeback. More than a generation of younger fans have been lost. The older fans have long since given up. There has to be more people that used to be boxing fans than any other sport.

dempseyfire wrote:In the end boxing declined b/c other sports (and opportunities) provided safer, more viable economic alternative for young adult males, PERIOD. All of the arguments about free tv and corrupt sanctioning bodies are stings of a bee compared to the fact that boxing declined as the U.S. grew its middle class post World War II and young adult males received more education. The arrival of the NBA and the NFL as national sports, along with the major salaries those sports provide, also ensured that any young adults looking at athletic careers will be steered to those less streneous (and yes, better regulated) athletic fields.

Honestly, if I knew a kid who pursued boxing at 18 over a basketball scholarship I'd say he was a moron.

Excellent observations.

Ambling Alp wrote:


However, not every boxer came from poor backgrounds.


.

The WIDE majority do. You always had exceptions like Tunney or some collegiate standouts who turned pro like Lou Nova (when boxing was still a major collegiate sport), but by and large the participants have been predominantly poor.

Also, if you look at registeries of boxing gyms, boxing actually started declining in the United States in the 1960s. You had a huge drop off in the number of operating gyms during that period. Now it's gotten to such a worse level it's impossible to ignore.

Also IMOP boxing was sort of displaced around the mid-1960's to 1970's,by Karate and other Martial Arts for any young male trying to learn self defense,which usually starts around the time u become a freshman in High School.
Especially after 1974,just after Bruce Lee had died(at age 32)leaving a few movies behind,and became a legend.
Remember "Kung-Fu Mania'in the 1970's.
I was a freshman in High School in 1975,and I remeber the fights at school,were the first thing somone would do was try and kick u in the nu*ts.Seemed to me then that the Martial Arts would be more useful to learn and go to a dojo rather then a gym were boxing was taught.
If u could even find one that is.