BoxRec

Decagon wrote:If Mitch "Blood"Green could go the distance using clutch-and-grab tactics, Ruiz sure as hell could. Tyson had NO defense for the clinch, to almost an unheardof extent for a top fighter.

The difference is that Green was an excellent amateur, much faster of both and feet, far taller, longer reach and more skilled than a lumbering John Ruiz who soley resorted on the clinch to win fights and nothing else.
Oh and Green fought a 19 year old Tyson who was only 1 year into his pro career.

sockdollanger wrote:agreed, but there was no one as quick, elusive and powerful as an 86-89 Tyson. This would have been Holyfields toughest test as Tyson was a destroyer of humans at that point.

With the exception of Joe Louis, no one had the unique combination of devastating power and speed like Tyson had in his prime years.
Michael Dokes might of had had the speed but not no where near had the power of Tyson and we all saw how much trouble Doke' gave a prime Holyfield, espeically with that left hook and Tyson had one of the best left hook in not only HW history, but boxing history.

This is a 50/50 match-up.

>>>Tyson was alway open to the clinch. John Ruiz would easily go 12 rounds with a prime Tyson, maybe even win a few rounds later on...<<<

Like he did with that fighter who was/is very similar to Tyson in style...David Tua? Tyson would do the same thing to Ruiz...maybe not in 19 seconds, but within...oh...45 seconds!


>>>With the exception of Joe Louis, no one had the unique combination of devastating power and speed like Tyson had in his prime years.<<<


Absolutely true!!! Tyson, in his prime, quite possibly, had the fastest hands in heavyweight history! His blinding speed combined with vicious power in either hand, is the main reason that I have the opinion that Tyson would absolutely annihilate George Foreman and several others!

In my view Tyson in his prime was arguably a top 5 head to head HW of all time. In a list of HWs by accomplishments he is barely holding on in the top 15. At his best he was frighteningly good but in comparison his non-best was extremely beatable. Strangely his short lived prime years will always overshaddow his 15 year not-so-good years at the end.

I have him at number six all-time, behind:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Rocky Marciano

barry wrote:I have him at number six all-time, behind:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Rocky Marciano

I like this group and the only thing I'd change is Louis and Ali but that is totally my oppinion. Id love to see Dempsey vs Marciano or Johnson vs Ali. Both those fights would be polar opposites but entertaining in their own right.

sockdollanger wrote:agreed, but there was no one as quick, elusive and powerful as an 86-89 Tyson. This would have been Holyfields toughest test as Tyson was a destroyer of humans at that point.

...Tyson was a "destroyer" of the opponents he fought...if you put in a prime Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Larry Holmes (among many others) against him...he would have been the destroyed, not the destroyer...when it gets right down to it, Tyson was shot at age 24...not from old age, but from EXPOSURE...It's not that Buster beat him...every one loses...BUT HE NEVER CAME BACK, never won another big fight...ever....now THATS the cutting edge difference...and it's why the guy will never rate with the greats...you can't win for a couple years, then get KO'd and never come back...and be called an all time great...no one else in that situation is called great...what the hell is it with this guy? He proved over and over again he couldn't win a big fight, and all you ever hear from his supporters is excuses for him...and he wasn't losing close split decisions that could go either way...he got pounded...

green also was much different from ruiz. green was 6'6 83" reach compared to john ruiz 6'2 under 80" reach.


the closest thing ruiz fought to a prime mike tyson was david tua(who had very similiar physical dimensions to tyson) AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. 19 seconds and that was it!

if you think ruiz would last with tyson, then you need to rewatch tua vs ruiz.



tyson was a very fast starter, he knocks out ruiz in possibly 30 seconds

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:green also was much different from ruiz. green was 6'6 83" reach compared to john ruiz 6'2 under 80" reach.


the closest thing ruiz fought to a prime mike tyson was david tua(who had very similiar physical dimensions to tyson) AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. 19 seconds and that was it!

if you think ruiz would last with tyson, then you need to rewatch tua vs ruiz.



tyson was a very fast starter, he knocks out ruiz in possibly 30 seconds

We’ve certainly disagreed on Tyson many times in the past, but Ruiz beating Tyson is one of the most unlikely fight outcomes I can imagine.

sockdollanger wrote:

barry wrote:I have him at number six all-time, behind:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Rocky Marciano

I like this group and the only thing I'd change is Louis and Ali but that is totally my oppinion. Id love to see Dempsey vs Marciano or Johnson vs Ali. Both those fights would be polar opposites but entertaining in their own right.

Unsurprising and slightly unhinged, that there are several people on this forum that would rank Dempsey, Marciano and Tyson above the peak Liston, Holmes, and Foreman.