BoxRec

J wrote:No need to get out your pram about it mate.
you may have baldomir as the top man in the division Liam but I dont.

If you dont know what I am on about I suggest that you re-read the post, take a chill pill and read what other people seem to be able to grasp judging by their responses.

Very bizarre. You clearly dont understand the concept of a discussion forum. Just because I dont agree with your point of view doesnt somehow equate to me losing my temper - far from it.

J wrote: I also state that since his time at Lightweight when he fought Castillo was the last time he fought the top man of the division and I suppose what Floyd says is the truth is it?

For what its worth, in Sunday's News of the World Fwank Warren reported that he had offered the Hatton's the Mayweather fight - and the Hatton's declined. Surely this co-oberates with Mayweather's story, eh? Interestingly I havent once heard Ricky, his old man or Billy Graham say that Mayweather is avoiding them or has avoided them.

J wrote: If you think that the likes of Corley Gatti Bruseels and Baldomir are the challenges that make a great Legacy in the region of the Durans et al of this world, then I suggest you take up watching darts.

Son, are you on drugs? I havent once mentioned 'great Legacy in the region of the Durans'. I am talking about Floyd Mayweather and Carlos Baldomir - and more particularly the fact that Baldomir has more legitimacy to face Mayweather than any other fighter that was listed. In November 2006 Baldomir was linear welter-weight champion of the world, thats got fuk all to do with fighters from the eighties et al.

1. Well "son" you certainly come accross extremely agressively and patronising for someone who isnt getting irate.

2. Yeah Im sure Warren did offer him the fight but for various reasons that have probably been discussed to death, the fight wasnt made. And Im sure you are probably aware that dear old Uncle Frank likes to have a dig at fighters who have in some way in his opinion wronged him ion that column. As you say for what its worth........ And its worth very little. Anyway this thread isnt about hatton.

3. Numerous times in this thread the 80's fighters are referred to. So in contect yes they are worth referring to. Floyd himself likes to compare himself to SRL saying he wouldnt have been able to live with him, so this adds further relevance.


I think to the impartial observer who knows his salt, it's pretty obvious since his lightweight days (v castillo) PBF has NOT fought the level of competition it would have been hoped, hopping through the weights and cherry picking lesser opponents, we know this happens in boxing, is that such an unfair thing to say?


Finally no Im not on drugs, are you?

anything else I can help you with "son"?

J wrote:I see your point Phenom but did ANYONE seriously think he was going to give Floyd any problems at all? Apart form James that is
It always was a poor match up both stylicistically and in terms of it ever being a contest. Margherito would have given him a better fight no / have been more fo a challenge?? Maybe you dont agree with that but certainly thats my thinking.

as for floyds last five being as good as Tsyu's best wins.
another darts fan then

siya

Well I thought PBF should have won all 12rounds but I though Baldomir maybe able to pressure him or land a honey punch - he just wasnt fast enough, relentless enough to apply this pressure. The problem is PBF won too easily, if Baldomir beat on him for a bit Baldomirs reputation is imnproved. Having said that Baldo landed some sweet rights (Baldos best punch). This is why I think a Hatton fight would be intriguing.

Ok lets look at Tyszus best - Judah, Mitchell, Hurtado, Ruelas, Gonzalez the ghost of chavez
PBFS last 5 - Corley, Gatti, Micthell, Judah, Baldomir

You can be mad about PBF not cleaning out 140/147 but SRL/Duran/HEarns never cleaned out anyone above their natural weights

phenom the days i got mad about boxing are long gone mate.

Gatti........ come on if chavez was a ghost then so was gatti and at least chavez was true world class Gatti while one of my faves never really was a truly world class great fighter, mitchell was better than corley when Zoo fought him and certianly better than when PBF fought him as an old man.
I would say also and Judah then was certainly more of a force pre Kostya than he is now so I dont agree there either. Anyway its all down to opinions mate and this may well be spitting hairs but I dont agree at all there.

Id also say beating hagler all be it with controversy would be deemed as cleaning out the div. Likewise when Duran beat SRL and Hearns beating Duran, so again dont agree. These guys went for the toughest competition Floyd simply has not, this to me is as plain as the nose on your face?

Ok, I thought Baldomir was doing well the 1st two rounds but after that, it was all downhill. Very boring fight, and I would like to see Floyd in against someone who can bang at 147. I thought that he looked like he could be slowed down with a body attack.

Mayweather has fought very poor competition since moving past 135, in a sense that isn't his fault, the Welterweight division has been pretty piss poor with a lot of belt swapping going on and fighters losing their titles. Who exactly is there are Welterweight to get excited about, apart from that Williams bloke who is looking good.

Ian Darke was correct to say Floyd would maybe hold his own against Leonard, he isn't the goods at 147, and I don't believe he could have won against Leonard, Hearns or Duran at 147, and forget about him fighting Hagler, what a no contest. Hagler ain't baldomir, he wouldn't have been just following Mayweather around the ring like that.

Mayweather needs to take on someone that is considered a danger man, not a washed up Gatti, an outclassed Baldomir or a completely passed it Sharmba Mitchell.

Where's the challenges?

Ok, so I thought that Maybe Floyd would struggle against the first genuine big welterweight he's faced, but I was clearly wrong, it was a stroll in the park for Mayweather, and that's not good enough.

Mayweather clearly has no intention of trying to solidify his claim at 147, the same as he had no interest in doing so at 140, cherry picking his way to titles is his main interest.

At least Leonard went cherry picking for Hagler, a guy that almost everyone thought was going to annihilate him, can you imagine Floyd doing that after being inactive for almost 4 years, not on your nelly.

Floyd's a great fighter in terms of talent, but his late career is leaving a bit to be desired.

THANKS JAMES.

i thought for one moment i was living in some kind of world of my own

no need to comment

jamesmcdonnell wrote: At least Leonard went cherry picking for Hagler, a guy that almost everyone thought was going to annihilate him, can you imagine Floyd doing that after being inactive for almost 4 years, not on your nelly.

Floyd's a great fighter in terms of talent, but his late career is leaving a bit to be desired.

Wait a miniute Floyd started at 130 and is in his 4th weight class - and he wasnt big at 130. The equivilent of SRL jumping 2 divisions and fighting Hagler would have been Floyd fighting Tyszu/Hatton at 140 and that fight couldnt be made. Remember Floyds willing to fight DLH/Mosley/Hatton and if thats not a modern day Hagler-SRL I don't know what is.

I'm probably sounding like a Floyd nutthugger now so I'll stop lol

J wrote:Id also say beating hagler all be it with controversy would be deemed as cleaning out the div. ?

No it wouldn't there were plenty of top fighters around at 160, ie our own Bomber Graham. SRL never tried to clear out a divison above 147. He was obviously the MAN at 160 though

The critics of Leonard will argue that SRL waiting untill after the Hagler vs Mugabi fight before calling out Hagler.... This was when Hagler first really started showing signs of age/wear and tear. However, he was still undisputely the #1 Middleweight.

The critics of DLH will argue the Oscar fought the number one Light Welterweight and the number one Welterweight (Julio Cesar Chavez and Pernell Whittikar) at a time when they were both shown major signs of age/ wear and tear. However, both were still the #1 Light Welterweight / Welter in the world (although maybe in Pernell's case, not undisputedly).

The critics of Floyd Mayweather will argue that Floyd waited untill a "lucky" club fighter won the undisputed title from a very credible champion before challenging for the belt. However, Baldo was the 1 Welter in the world.

What happens if it was Margarito/Cotto/Quintanta/Williams/Collazo/Hatton (as WBA Welter champion) etc in the ring.

I tell you what, people will be saying, but he still hasn't beaten the man. Hatton looked poor at 147, we are guessing/hoping Cotto will look better than he did at 140 recently (cause a guy who eeks past Torres/Malignaggi is no threat), Margarito has been one of the least active champions around (barely averaging one defence a year against no names), Williams and Quintanta are just prospects not even champions and Collazo lost to Hatton.

And to Floyds credit, he did sign to fight undisputed champion when the champion was apparently in his prime, looking better than ever, with excellent skills and in most peoples P4P bracket.

He couldn't help Judah elected to fight a warm up first.... the fight was signed before. So he beats him, waits till Baldomir gets another credible win and fights him.

I think Mayweather from a legacy standpoint has done it spot on.... He's beaten the most skilled and he's beaten the most credible champion in terms of #1.

Fighting Margarito, wouldn't have achieved either.... Margito isn't the man and Margarito isn't the most skilled.

Now.... Calling himself the #1 Light Welter on the back of dismantling Gatti, when Tszyu and Hatton were around is an entirely different matter.

stujones wrote: What happens if it was Margarito/Cotto/Quintanta/Williams/Collazo/Hatton (as WBA Welter champion) etc in the ring.

I tell you what, people will be saying, but he still hasn't beaten the man.

Totally agree. Sure, Mayweather hasnt got the challenge of a Leonard, Duran or Hagler but he took on the top boy at welter - whether that boy was shite or not, that isnt Mayweather's fault.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Mayweather clearly has no intention of trying to solidify his claim at 147
the same as he had no interest in doing so at 140...

I think that is definitely true. The man is on a mission to pick-up a world-title in each division and move on quick-speed.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ....cherry picking his way to titles is his main interest.

I used to think that, particularly after Mayweather fought Gatti for the WBC light-welter title. However since it transpires that Mayweather offered Hatton a fight at light-welter, only for Hatton to decline - and since Mayweather has gone on to beat the linear welter-weight champion, I dont think your argument holds any strength.

Mayweather beat the man at lightweight, went after the man at light-welter (only to be rebuffed) and beat the man at welter. Thats not cherry-picking.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: At least Leonard went cherry picking for Hagler, a guy that almost everyone thought was going to annihilate him, can you imagine Floyd doing that after being inactive for almost 4 years, not on your nelly.

Floyd's a great fighter in terms of talent, but his late career is leaving a bit to be desired.

Wait a miniute Floyd started at 130 and is in his 4th weight class - and he wasnt big at 130. The equivilent of SRL jumping 2 divisions and fighting Hagler would have been Floyd fighting Tyszu/Hatton at 140 and that fight couldnt be made. Remember Floyds willing to fight DLH/Mosley/Hatton and if thats not a modern day Hagler-SRL I don't know what is.

I'm probably sounding like a Floyd nutthugger now so I'll stop lol

What do you mean wasn't big at 130, he's 5'10 1/2 for starters. What nonsense. Floyd, much like Oscar was, is pretty much a natural 140 lber.

The point is, the welterweight division has been flaky for a long time, look how many people have held the undisputed titles since Oscar and Shane first fought for it.

There has not really been an established king of the division. Judah was known to be flaky and had already been battered at 140, and then beaten by Spinks, who himself wasn't ever proven to be the man.

For me, to prove you are the top man in your division, you have to rule over it for a decent period of time, not win one title fight. Nobody has done that since Mosley went on his run before running into Forrest. Nobody since then has been able to put together enough of a run to be called the man. Just because you have all the titles, doesn't mean shit unless you can sustain your title run for more than one or two defences.

Marvin Hagler, whether he was slowing or not was THE MAN at middleweight and had been for seven long years, he was unbeaten as a champion, and was a guy who didn't know how to lose.

Leonard was inactive, and was taking on a guy regarded as an utter monster. Everyone with hindsight talks about how Hagler was on the slide, but although the likes of Mugabe gave him a hard fight, they in the end were utterly brutalised.

Fighting Oscar would be a big fightk, but let's not forget, Oscar is the one who is ageing and inactive, and who is being overrated based on his win over a very limited and already exposed Mayorga.

For me, this fight is much bigger for Oscar than Floyd. If Oscar wins, then it cements his legacy, but for Floyd, it's not really quite the defining fight for me.

Why not stay at 147 and fight Margarito and settle the argument, or Cotto, or Hatton?

I saw a look of discomfort on Floyd's face against Baldomir the other night when he was being hit early on, which leads me to believe he knows he cannot hang against a big hard hitting Welterweight. I reckon he figures that Oscar, being someone who moved up to the weight and a guy who relies on speed and reflexes is at the right stage for him to take him on.

I'm a big fan of Floyd's, but I think his talent falls short of the greatness that it perhaps deserves. The latter stages of his career have been spent collecting belts rather than proving himself to be the dominant fighter of his era.

I suspect there are a number of welterweights who would give him a much harder night's work than Baldomir, Margarito for all his supposed shortcomings, can take a man's head off with a single shot, something that we all knew Baldomir could not do. Margarito is a more polished operator than Baldomir, and whilst I thought that Baldomir was being underrated based on recent performances, it wasn't his technique and punch power that was being touted by me, but his determination and raw boned strength.

Come on James, are you really saying that Oscar is less of a threat to Maywather than Margarito. Sorry James,but thats quite funny.

Lets think put a bit of percpetive on the issue.

Yes, Mayorga is overated, yes he is limited - no doubt.

But,Vargas, Castllejo also at Light Middle as well as host of wins at 147... and you seem to be saying that Margarito is the stronger man.

He Ko's Vargas, yet he hasn't got the power to Hurt Mayweather and Margarito has? Lets not forget, Margarito didn't hurt Santos (even Neil Sinclair did that FFS).

I just cannot believe it, when this match up was mooted 4-5 years back when Floyd was a Super Feather and Oscar was a Welter NO-ONE thought there was a cat in hells chance of it happening and no-one gave Floyd a cats in hells chance of winning (Oscar too big/too good was the universal opinion). Now its looking alot more likely already the questions are starting to be raised about the meaning for each fighter.

Its a massive fight for both, but if the naturally smaller Floyd wins than he's got to be considered up there with anyone.... It would be an achievement up there with Duran beaten Leonard. Oscar might have started at the same weight as Floyd but he is a physically bigger man. It wasn't through title hoping that Oscar moved up from 9st 4 to 10stone. That was forced, he was dead at Super Feather, then within a couple of years dead at Lightweight and then dead at Light Welter. He only started to title hope from Welter. He still believes he could fight at 147 lbs today.

Mayweather has titled hoped from the start of his career, it was never a weight issue. Indeed he could probably fight Freitas/Casamayor now at Lightweight if he wanted. He is still very much a bulked up Lightweight, wheras DLH is a bulked up Welterweight.

What I cannot understand is the love in for Margarito.... criticisms for #1 Light Middle (with Wright moved up) as a credible opponent, but a guy who cannot win a world title at Light Middle (against the weakest champion at the time) oh yeah, he's great.

Lets face it, no matter who DLH fights he would have got criticism. Fought Hatton it would have been "well Hatton did struggle vs a past it Tszyu", fought Cotto the drap performances would have been mentioned.... Had Zab beaten Baldomir and still remained the man, the Tszyu fight would have been mentioned time and time again. Fought Spinks when he was the man, the lack of power would have mentioned. Fought Margarito the fact he has beaten only two (Diaz and Cintron) top ten fighters would have been mentioned.

But now he is getting criticised for fighting DLH..... This is hillarious.

If we can criticise DLH as an opponent, there is really no point watching the sport cause every fight can be criticised.

David Haye vs Wlad Klitchko - "oh I cannot believe Haye has ducked Mormeck and fighting a guy blasted out by a part time golfer".

The point I an making here, is that you cannot compare Leonard's victory over Hagler with Mayweather beating Oscar.

Leonard CAME OUT OF RETIREMENT to fight Hagler. Sure, he'd been training on and off, and even sparring, that's well known, and he waited until he saw that Hagler had slipped a bit, but Hagler was still turning back all comers and was rightly considered the man at the weight. Oscar is an inactive fighter whose form is unknown at present.

It is very hard to guage just how good Oscar is at this point, Mayorga was absolutely tailor made for him, a crude limited slugger whose best days were already behind him.

Oscar is not shot, but it's hard to believe he is at his peak either, and Floyd is still only 29, no reason he cannot get plenty more meaningful fights in at 147 or even back at 140.

I get very bored with all this belthopping. It's far easier for a fighter to avoid getting beaten when he fights whichever title holder suits his purposes, or goes to a division when it's in a weak state.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The point I an making here, is that you cannot compare Leonard's victory over Hagler with Mayweather beating Oscar.

Leonard CAME OUT OF RETIREMENT to fight Hagler. Sure, he'd been training on and off, and even sparring, that's well known, and he waited until he saw that Hagler had slipped a bit, but Hagler was still turning back all comers and was rightly considered the man at the weight. Oscar is an inactive fighter whose form is unknown at present.

It is very hard to guage just how good Oscar is at this point, Mayorga was absolutely tailor made for him, a crude limited slugger whose best days were already behind him.

Oscar is not shot, but it's hard to believe he is at his peak either, and Floyd is still only 29, no reason he cannot get plenty more meaningful fights in at 147 or even back at 140.

I get very bored with all this belthopping. It's far easier for a fighter to avoid getting beaten when he fights whichever title holder suits his purposes, or goes to a division when it's in a weak state.

All very well, but who? Hatton doesn't want anything at 147 and seems to be none negotiable at 140 and as I have been harping on about who at 147 currently can be considered "better" than even the "unkown" form of DLH at 154.

Shot or not shot, Mayorga was a belt holder at 154 and beat the current EBU champion in doing so. Has Margarito beaten ANYONE as good as even the 2006 version of Mayorga, let alone the 2006 version of DLH.

Not only is DLH's legacy better than Margarito's, his current form in world class is also as well known. Margarito's best win comes against a life and death struggle with a faded Antonio Diaz and the unproven Kermit Cintron..... are these any better than the 2006 version of Mayorga?

The IBF and WBA Welterweight titles are currently vacant.... Only Floyd and Margarito are current champions.... so below them are even less known quantities.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: At least Leonard went cherry picking for Hagler, a guy that almost everyone thought was going to annihilate him, can you imagine Floyd doing that after being inactive for almost 4 years, not on your nelly.

Floyd's a great fighter in terms of talent, but his late career is leaving a bit to be desired.

Wait a miniute Floyd started at 130 and is in his 4th weight class - and he wasnt big at 130. The equivilent of SRL jumping 2 divisions and fighting Hagler would have been Floyd fighting Tyszu/Hatton at 140 and that fight couldnt be made. Remember Floyds willing to fight DLH/Mosley/Hatton and if thats not a modern day Hagler-SRL I don't know what is.

I'm probably sounding like a Floyd nutthugger now so I'll stop lol

What do you mean wasn't big at 130, he's 5'10 1/2 for starters. What nonsense. Floyd, much like Oscar was, is pretty much a natural 140 lber.

The point is, the welterweight division has been flaky for a long time, look how many people have held the undisputed titles since Oscar and Shane first fought for it.

There has not really been an established king of the division. Judah was known to be flaky and had already been battered at 140, and then beaten by Spinks, who himself wasn't ever proven to be the man.

For me, to prove you are the top man in your division, you have to rule over it for a decent period of time, not win one title fight. Nobody has done that since Mosley went on his run before running into Forrest. Nobody since then has been able to put together enough of a run to be called the man. Just because you have all the titles, doesn't mean shit unless you can sustain your title run for more than one or two defences.

Marvin Hagler, whether he was slowing or not was THE MAN at middleweight and had been for seven long years, he was unbeaten as a champion, and was a guy who didn't know how to lose.

Leonard was inactive, and was taking on a guy regarded as an utter monster. Everyone with hindsight talks about how Hagler was on the slide, but although the likes of Mugabe gave him a hard fight, they in the end were utterly brutalised.

Fighting Oscar would be a big fightk, but let's not forget, Oscar is the one who is ageing and inactive, and who is being overrated based on his win over a very limited and already exposed Mayorga.

For me, this fight is much bigger for Oscar than Floyd. If Oscar wins, then it cements his legacy, but for Floyd, it's not really quite the defining fight for me.

Why not stay at 147 and fight Margarito and settle the argument, or Cotto, or Hatton?

I saw a look of discomfort on Floyd's face against Baldomir the other night when he was being hit early on, which leads me to believe he knows he cannot hang against a big hard hitting Welterweight. I reckon he figures that Oscar, being someone who moved up to the weight and a guy who relies on speed and reflexes is at the right stage for him to take him on.

I'm a big fan of Floyd's, but I think his talent falls short of the greatness that it perhaps deserves. The latter stages of his career have been spent collecting belts rather than proving himself to be the dominant fighter of his era.

I suspect there are a number of welterweights who would give him a much harder night's work than Baldomir, Margarito for all his supposed shortcomings, can take a man's head off with a single shot, something that we all knew Baldomir could not do. Margarito is a more polished operator than Baldomir, and whilst I thought that Baldomir was being underrated based on recent performances, it wasn't his technique and punch power that was being touted by me, but his determination and raw boned strength.

Floyd weighed 130 on fight night at most his fights at 130, he was outweighed by about 10lbs against Corrales, at 140 he was undersized weighed 140 on fight night and was outweighed by 15-17lbs against Gatti. If he weight drained he could still make 130 today probably. Yes hes tall but he has a very slight frame. BTW Floyd is 5'8 not 5'10 1/2.

1. Baldomir wasthe man - ever heard of the linear title? Thats the title that makes Hagler/ Baldomir held it

2. Oscars weighs more and is naturally bigger than Baldomir. Oscar although slowing is faster than Margarito/Baldomir/Hatton better technically, bigger, more powerful. Would you pick Margarito/Cotto/Williams/Hatton over DLH I wouldn't in fact I'm not sure PBF could hang with him.

3. Does Margarito hit harder than Corrales/Castillo - maybe but his power isn't particularly devastating and he actually has to land those punches

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
It is very hard to guage just how good Oscar is at this point, Mayorga was absolutely tailor made for him, a crude limited slugger whose best days were already behind him.

Oscar's performance against Mayorga was one of his best, it was vintage Oscar. It's all good saying Mayorga was "tailor made, limited slugger" after the fact he got dominated. No instead you said this prior to the fight..

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote:mayorga has no chance.

de la hoya is an all time great and mayorga is just a slugger with a big mouth.

how dare he challenge de la hoya with his primitive skills. de la hoya by a late stoppage.

DLH is a part time boxer who hasn't looked impressive in quite some time. He lost to Sturm and got a gift decision and was finished with one punch by Hopkins.

I won't be that surprised if DLH loses.

IMO DLH is a far bigger challenge than any 147'lb'r.

As for Margarito being a big puncher, please..Oscar is better than Tony in every single department.

Yes, I recall that, however, that's because I thought that Oscar could well be very rusty. Some fighters just don't come back well when they are inactive.

Also, I said that "I wouldn't be surprised if Oscar lost", I didn't say "I predict Mayorga will win."

I'm always looking for the upset in boxing, and I saw that fight as one which had the potential for one.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Wait a miniute Floyd started at 130 and is in his 4th weight class - and he wasnt big at 130. The equivilent of SRL jumping 2 divisions and fighting Hagler would have been Floyd fighting Tyszu/Hatton at 140 and that fight couldnt be made. Remember Floyds willing to fight DLH/Mosley/Hatton and if thats not a modern day Hagler-SRL I don't know what is.

I'm probably sounding like a Floyd nutthugger now so I'll stop lol

What do you mean wasn't big at 130, he's 5'10 1/2 for starters. What nonsense. Floyd, much like Oscar was, is pretty much a natural 140 lber.

The point is, the welterweight division has been flaky for a long time, look how many people have held the undisputed titles since Oscar and Shane first fought for it.

There has not really been an established king of the division. Judah was known to be flaky and had already been battered at 140, and then beaten by Spinks, who himself wasn't ever proven to be the man.

For me, to prove you are the top man in your division, you have to rule over it for a decent period of time, not win one title fight. Nobody has done that since Mosley went on his run before running into Forrest. Nobody since then has been able to put together enough of a run to be called the man. Just because you have all the titles, doesn't mean shit unless you can sustain your title run for more than one or two defences.

Marvin Hagler, whether he was slowing or not was THE MAN at middleweight and had been for seven long years, he was unbeaten as a champion, and was a guy who didn't know how to lose.

Leonard was inactive, and was taking on a guy regarded as an utter monster. Everyone with hindsight talks about how Hagler was on the slide, but although the likes of Mugabe gave him a hard fight, they in the end were utterly brutalised.

Fighting Oscar would be a big fightk, but let's not forget, Oscar is the one who is ageing and inactive, and who is being overrated based on his win over a very limited and already exposed Mayorga.

For me, this fight is much bigger for Oscar than Floyd. If Oscar wins, then it cements his legacy, but for Floyd, it's not really quite the defining fight for me.

Why not stay at 147 and fight Margarito and settle the argument, or Cotto, or Hatton?

I saw a look of discomfort on Floyd's face against Baldomir the other night when he was being hit early on, which leads me to believe he knows he cannot hang against a big hard hitting Welterweight. I reckon he figures that Oscar, being someone who moved up to the weight and a guy who relies on speed and reflexes is at the right stage for him to take him on.

I'm a big fan of Floyd's, but I think his talent falls short of the greatness that it perhaps deserves. The latter stages of his career have been spent collecting belts rather than proving himself to be the dominant fighter of his era.

I suspect there are a number of welterweights who would give him a much harder night's work than Baldomir, Margarito for all his supposed shortcomings, can take a man's head off with a single shot, something that we all knew Baldomir could not do. Margarito is a more polished operator than Baldomir, and whilst I thought that Baldomir was being underrated based on recent performances, it wasn't his technique and punch power that was being touted by me, but his determination and raw boned strength.

Floyd weighed 130 on fight night at most his fights at 130, he was outweighed by about 10lbs against Corrales, at 140 he was undersized weighed 140 on fight night and was outweighed by 15-17lbs against Gatti. If he weight drained he could still make 130 today probably. Yes hes tall but he has a very slight frame. BTW Floyd is 5'8 not 5'10 1/2.

1. Baldomir wasthe man - ever heard of the linear title? Thats the title that makes Hagler/ Baldomir held it

2. Oscars weighs more and is naturally bigger than Baldomir. Oscar although slowing is faster than Margarito/Baldomir/Hatton better technically, bigger, more powerful. Would you pick Margarito/Cotto/Williams/Hatton over DLH I wouldn't in fact I'm not sure PBF could hang with him.

3. Does Margarito hit harder than Corrales/Castillo - maybe but his power isn't particularly devastating and he actually has to land those punches

Hagler was regarded as THE MAN, because he had been the top boy for 7 years, you cannot compare Hagler and Baldomir, you simply cannot, the linear title is where their respective merits end.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hagler was regarded as THE MAN, because he had been the top boy for 7 years, you cannot compare Hagler and Baldomir, you simply cannot, the linear title is where their respective merits end.

No but they are both the MAN, defined by the linear title. Baldomir wasn't supposed to be PBFs career defining fight

Margarito is the man to beat Floyd, 100%. And Margarito is a big puncher. Ive seen Margarito totally starch some dudes. And you can just tell he's a heavy hitter by the thud his punches make. He really digs the shots in.

Im totally convinced. Margarito would walk right through everything Floyd has and then hurt him with every shot. Tony is a big strong welterweight puncher, Floyd will have never faced his like.

And I believe he's a bigger threat than Oscar. Oscar is a different type of puncher, especially these days. Oscar started out in about the same division as Floyd after all. Tony is the kind of guy who's just going to wack really hard and consistently. And Tony won't stop coming the whole fight.

Give Floyd some credit for Christssake!... he put on a boxing clinic with a broken hand!!... Larry Merchent is a dick!. Those who keep comparing Mayweather to SRL seem to be forgetting that Leonard was a natural welterweight and that same Leonard was so brave that he waited till Hagler was a old man till he fought him!.
And why all this fuss over Paul Williams!!... most overrated fighter since Jeff 'the next Hagler!!' Lacey imo!... :x 8)

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

J wrote:I see your point Phenom but did ANYONE seriously think he was going to give Floyd any problems at all? Apart form James that is
It always was a poor match up both stylicistically and in terms of it ever being a contest. Margherito would have given him a better fight no / have been more fo a challenge?? Maybe you dont agree with that but certainly thats my thinking.

as for floyds last five being as good as Tsyu's best wins.
another darts fan then

siya

Well I thought PBF should have won all 12rounds but I though Baldomir maybe able to pressure him or land a honey punch - he just wasnt fast enough, relentless enough to apply this pressure. The problem is PBF won too easily, if Baldomir beat on him for a bit Baldomirs reputation is imnproved. Having said that Baldo landed some sweet rights (Baldos best punch). This is why I think a Hatton fight would be intriguing.

Ok lets look at Tyszus best - Judah, Mitchell, Hurtado, Ruelas, Gonzalez the ghost of chavez
PBFS last 5 - Corley, Gatti, Micthell, Judah, Baldomir

You can be mad about PBF not cleaning out 140/147 but SRL/Duran/HEarns never cleaned out anyone above their natural weights

Tszyu stayed in the same weight class. He eradicated all threats. Notwithstanding the slip up vs Phillips, he took down and STOPPED two men who were favored to beat him, Judah (when Judah was considered royalty) and Mitchell, and unified the division. people felt that Mitchell could win the rematch, but Kostya hammered him.

There was not a fighter at 140 that Tszyu overlooked. Hurtado and Gonzalez were also good fighters.

Mayweather was the same at 130. He beat Corrales, the Hernandezes (Genaro & Carlos), Jesus Chavez. I'll give him Castillo as well at lightweight, even though he was outworked in the 1st fight.

But above 135 - well he never went after Tszyu at 140. A long reigning, fearsome champ.

At 147, he feels his work is done after beating Baldomir. What about the threats at welter - there are around half a dozen of them.

"paul Williams, who he?"
"Luis Collazo's a journeyman"
"Antonio Margarito - D-level, 25,000 buys" (?)
"Hatton, he should stay in England & fight English wrestlers"

LOL

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: At least Leonard went cherry picking for Hagler, a guy that almost everyone thought was going to annihilate him, can you imagine Floyd doing that after being inactive for almost 4 years, not on your nelly.

Floyd's a great fighter in terms of talent, but his late career is leaving a bit to be desired.

Wait a miniute Floyd started at 130 and is in his 4th weight class - and he wasnt big at 130. The equivilent of SRL jumping 2 divisions and fighting Hagler would have been Floyd fighting Tyszu/Hatton at 140 and that fight couldnt be made. Remember Floyds willing to fight DLH/Mosley/Hatton and if thats not a modern day Hagler-SRL I don't know what is.

I'm probably sounding like a Floyd nutthugger now so I'll stop lol

What do you mean wasn't big at 130, he's 5'10 1/2 for starters. What nonsense. Floyd, much like Oscar was, is pretty much a natural 140 lber.

The point is, the welterweight division has been flaky for a long time, look how many people have held the undisputed titles since Oscar and Shane first fought for it.

There has not really been an established king of the division. Judah was known to be flaky and had already been battered at 140, and then beaten by Spinks, who himself wasn't ever proven to be the man.

For me, to prove you are the top man in your division, you have to rule over it for a decent period of time, not win one title fight. Nobody has done that since Mosley went on his run before running into Forrest. Nobody since then has been able to put together enough of a run to be called the man. Just because you have all the titles, doesn't mean shit unless you can sustain your title run for more than one or two defences.

Marvin Hagler, whether he was slowing or not was THE MAN at middleweight and had been for seven long years, he was unbeaten as a champion, and was a guy who didn't know how to lose.

Leonard was inactive, and was taking on a guy regarded as an utter monster. Everyone with hindsight talks about how Hagler was on the slide, but although the likes of Mugabe gave him a hard fight, they in the end were utterly brutalised.

Fighting Oscar would be a big fightk, but let's not forget, Oscar is the one who is ageing and inactive, and who is being overrated based on his win over a very limited and already exposed Mayorga.

For me, this fight is much bigger for Oscar than Floyd. If Oscar wins, then it cements his legacy, but for Floyd, it's not really quite the defining fight for me.

Why not stay at 147 and fight Margarito and settle the argument, or Cotto, or Hatton?

I saw a look of discomfort on Floyd's face against Baldomir the other night when he was being hit early on, which leads me to believe he knows he cannot hang against a big hard hitting Welterweight. I reckon he figures that Oscar, being someone who moved up to the weight and a guy who relies on speed and reflexes is at the right stage for him to take him on.

I'm a big fan of Floyd's, but I think his talent falls short of the greatness that it perhaps deserves. The latter stages of his career have been spent collecting belts rather than proving himself to be the dominant fighter of his era.

I suspect there are a number of welterweights who would give him a much harder night's work than Baldomir, Margarito for all his supposed shortcomings, can take a man's head off with a single shot, something that we all knew Baldomir could not do. Margarito is a more polished operator than Baldomir, and whilst I thought that Baldomir was being underrated based on recent performances, it wasn't his technique and punch power that was being touted by me, but his determination and raw boned strength.

Amen - Oscar has 1/2 a foot in retirement. In all truth Oscar will pretend Floyd is a possibility to string HBO along into giving him plenty of TV dates for his stable of fighters.

Imagine a guy like Margarito, who won't hesistate let let rip. Who's stronger and more experienced at elite level than Baldo. It could be 'Pretty Nasty'.

I look forward to Margarito-Clottey. Clottey has a bit of a Quartey style and looks like he's made out of iron.


IMO Floyd was a pretty compact 130. By no means small. I mean the smallest great fighter at 130 had to be Azumah. Floyd was probbaly made to look small vs two massive super feathers Corrales and Genaro Hernandez. Both of them probably gorged themselves into being a stone heavier after the weigh in.

I remmeber an idiotic Corrales in his dressing room eating a massive peanut butter sandwich.

Baldo as lineal champ - SFW?

He was an accidental champ like Omar Nino Romero and Carlos Maussa.

He made the most of his unexpected and undeserved shot when the reigning champ completely lost his marbles!

He was losing to Margarito's next opponent, Clottey, until Clottey was DQ'd.

Shall we make a big deal out of Marg-Clottey? Maybe we should because it looks like a real fight.

Also, every Undisputed' welter king bypassed Margarito. How undisputed can they be??



George Foreman was lineal champ after getting gifted vs Axel Schultz. When he was stripped for not granting the German a rematch, he also have up his other title, and practically renounced World Class boxing, by DEFENDING HIS LINEAL TITLE AGAINST CRAWFORD GRIMSLEY

Shannon Briggs got a gift vs Foreman. Can anyone be serious saying that Briggs was THE CHAMP, when HE CHALLENGED LEWIS' WBC belt? & got a hiding in the process.

MAB was 'Universal' champ after beating Hamed and getting lucky vs Morales (2nd fight). He wasted a portion of his career defending vs Kelley (too old) & Tapia (too small).

Tarver was 'ppl's champ' after beating an ageing Jones. Shouldn't he have been STRIPPED sometime before the Hopkins fight??

P!ss on your magazine titles! History shows that anyone whom Buffer announces as a People's Champion or a Universal Soldier will take gimme fights. These titles are just as suspect, as will be proven when Floyd fails to take on an ELITE WELTER

viciousmaussa wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

J wrote:I see your point Phenom but did ANYONE seriously think he was going to give Floyd any problems at all? Apart form James that is
It always was a poor match up both stylicistically and in terms of it ever being a contest. Margherito would have given him a better fight no / have been more fo a challenge?? Maybe you dont agree with that but certainly thats my thinking.

as for floyds last five being as good as Tsyu's best wins.
another darts fan then

siya

Well I thought PBF should have won all 12rounds but I though Baldomir maybe able to pressure him or land a honey punch - he just wasnt fast enough, relentless enough to apply this pressure. The problem is PBF won too easily, if Baldomir beat on him for a bit Baldomirs reputation is imnproved. Having said that Baldo landed some sweet rights (Baldos best punch). This is why I think a Hatton fight would be intriguing.

Ok lets look at Tyszus best - Judah, Mitchell, Hurtado, Ruelas, Gonzalez the ghost of chavez
PBFS last 5 - Corley, Gatti, Micthell, Judah, Baldomir

You can be mad about PBF not cleaning out 140/147 but SRL/Duran/HEarns never cleaned out anyone above their natural weights

Tszyu stayed in the same weight class. He eradicated all threats. Notwithstanding the slip up vs Phillips, he took down and STOPPED two men who were favored to beat him, Judah (when Judah was considered royalty) and Mitchell, and unified the division. people felt that Mitchell could win the rematch, but Kostya hammered him.

There was not a fighter at 140 that Tszyu overlooked. Hurtado and Gonzalez were also good fighters.

Mayweather was the same at 130. He beat Corrales, the Hernandezes (Genaro & Carlos), Jesus Chavez. I'll give him Castillo as well at lightweight, even though he was outworked in the 1st fight.

But above 135 - well he never went after Tszyu at 140. A long reigning, fearsome champ.

At 147, he feels his work is done after beating Baldomir. What about the threats at welter - there are around half a dozen of them.

"paul Williams, who he?"
"Luis Collazo's a journeyman"
"Antonio Margarito - D-level, 25,000 buys" (?)
"Hatton, he should stay in England & fight English wrestlers"

LOL

If PBF had fought Tyszu/Hatton his resume would look allot better. Well Mayweather planned to fight the winner of Tyszu and Hatton and has offered Hatton the fight 4-5 times - Hattons refused to discuss anything less than $13m by all accounts. Cotto would have looked good on his CV but Cotto didnt want any.

You should also know by now BUSINESS IN BOXING = RISK REWARD. No one wants to fight Margarito/Williams/Witter/Harris/Dzinderuk - all danger men with little to gain in fighting them but everything to lose - even if you have a 80% chance of winning theres still no reason to risk it. Plus boxings a painful business, if you take a fight you may win but are likely to get hurt whether you win or lose you want to be seriously compensiated for it - ie to the maximum. So thats why Floyd wants DLH/Mosley - there harder fights than Margarito but they offer much more reward for the pain of the task. Its like a ladder really and you want to get the person above you not the person below you - unless the person below is easy meat.

Its amazing you Floyd gets critisised for not fighting Margarito while Hatton doesnt get critisised for not stepping upto Mayweather/Witter/Harris/Cotto/Judah. And Margarito won't fight Williams - hes shying away from the fight - care for a little wager that this fight wont get made in the next 18months unless Marg loses?

BTW Tyszu despite his greatness didnt fight the best that was around 140 - DLH/Mosley/Whitaker/Trinidad/Quartley/Johnson/Forrest/Castillo/PBF/Mayorga all P4P guys around his weight that he didnt fight. Tyszu/Hatton were both on different networks to Gatti and Mayweather and that was a key reason for it not happening - but the winner of the WBC/IBF tournament were supposed to square off.