BoxRec

Good way for Mundine to win a 'belt'...heard the first fight was rather close, so it'd be nice to see him clear some controversy.

nickd wrote:

coneye wrote:Lets not forget when Echols was the come forwrd in your face bogey man that everyone including and especially Calagzie was ducking , Mundine took him on and handled him with ease .

Point being Joe being undeafeted pro of many years schooled Lacy . Mundine was a novice fighter, only two ameteur fights and a couple of years has a pro.

Others may beat Mundine but tell ya what Mundine would beat Joe, Mundine is faster and hits harder than Joe the slapper

Come on now, Mundine would not beat Calzaghe that is just stupid talk.

Who knows, Calzaghe doesn't fight boxers. I haven't a clue how he'd look against a slick, fast fighter because he doesn't go in against that sort.

Maybe he'd take his boxing to another level. Maybe he can only do that against the Lacys. With Calzaghe, we just don't know.

I have an inkling that whatever happened, he would probably look poor. Coming forward, lunging off balance, missing lots of shoeshine slaps, etc etc.

nickd wrote:

coneye wrote:Lets not forget when Echols was the come forwrd in your face bogey man that everyone including and especially Calagzie was ducking , Mundine took him on and handled him with ease .

Point being Joe being undeafeted pro of many years schooled Lacy . Mundine was a novice fighter, only two ameteur fights and a couple of years has a pro.

Others may beat Mundine but tell ya what Mundine would beat Joe, Mundine is faster and hits harder than Joe the slapper

Come on now, Mundine would not beat Calzaghe that is just stupid talk.

Why's it stupid talk , when was the last time you seen Joe in with someone has fast has himself, especially someone who can bang a bit. Reid Mundine's quicker, Mundine has fast hands and sharp reflexes and can box, In fact just sit back and compare records be honest about it When our illustrious Joe was fighting the Pudwills of the world Mundine was a raw novice fighting the Solimans and Echols.

Even guys like Siaca ok he beat Mundine but at least he got the experience whilst Joe was pulling out of fights.Styles make fights and while I dom't think Mundine will ever beat Kessler he's too big , I don't think Joe would beat Mundine either, Will not happen anyway cos while Mundine has proven he will take on the names in the division, Kessler, Siacca , Green , Echols. Joe in his long carreer has proved he don't want them

coneye wrote:Why's it stupid talk , when was the last time you seen Joe in with someone has fast has himself, especially someone who can bang a bit. Reid Mundine's quicker, Mundine has fast hands and sharp reflexes and can box, In fact just sit back and compare records be honest about it When our illustrious Joe was fighting the Pudwills of the world Mundine was a raw novice fighting the Solimans and Echols.

Even guys like Siaca ok he beat Mundine but at least he got the experience whilst Joe was pulling out of fights.Styles make fights and while I dom't think Mundine will ever beat Kessler he's too big , I don't think Joe would beat Mundine either, Will not happen anyway cos while Mundine has proven he will take on the names in the division, Kessler, Siacca , Green , Echols. Joe in his long carreer has proved he don't want them

because he doesn't like it when u light a fire under his arse.

say what u want about calzaghe, but he has never lost to a guy like manny siaca.

mundine was flattened by sven ottke ffs. i thought he was beaten comfortably by kessler and no way was it anything like 7-4-1.

let's look at those names shall we.

he lost to 2 of em.

green for all his potential has never won a world title

neither has echols.

calzaghe has beaten numerous former champions over his long career.

Mundine has only been pro for 6 years. He's taken way more risks than Calzaghe in that time. I'm not saying he's better.

Kessler-Mundine was way closer than people let on. Kessler didn't win by more than 3 rounds. Are you giving him credit for punches that missed?

Mundine did a lot of quality work in that fight. Kessler was taken out of his element and had to come forward throwing sloppy combos.

Terrible losing to ottke in your first year as a pro. Calzaghe didn't fight him his whole career. Ottke was still champ when Calzaghe was SIX YEARS INTO HIS OWN REIGN.

Ask yourself, how many top fighters did calzaghe face in his first FIVE YEARS?

One: Eubank.

viciousmaussa wrote:Mundine has only been pro for 6 years. He's taken way more risks than Calzaghe in that time. I'm not saying he's better.

Kessler-Mundine was way closer than people let on. Kessler didn't win by more than 3 rounds. Are you giving him credit for punches that missed?

Mundine did a lot of quality work in that fight. Kessler was taken out of his element and had to come forward throwing sloppy combos.

Terrible losing to ottke in your first year as a pro. Calzaghe didn't fight him his whole career. Ottke was still champ when Calzaghe was SIX YEARS INTO HIS OWN REIGN.

Ask yourself, how many top fighters did calzaghe face in his first FIVE YEARS?

One: Eubank.

ottke retired without taking on calzaghe.

that tells u everything.

mundine has fallen short in his 2 biggest fights.

fact.

Hitman, I wanted to ask

Is Siaca rubbish because he lost to Branco?
Or is he rubbish because he lost to Mitchell?

Just curious

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:Mundine has only bee

One: Eubank.

ottke retired without taking on calzaghe.

that tells u everything.

mundine has fallen short in his 2 biggest fights.

fact.

Ottke retired without taking Joe on , get facking real Joe never wanted the fight, just like he don't want Kessler,

It tells me , Calagzie don't want any decent opponents.

Mundine fallen short well , maybee so but at least he had a go , . Like I said when Mundine was a 12 fight novice he was fighting the guys Joe did'nt want,

Say what you will but Mundine dispite a couple of losses has won something Joe cannot RESPECT. from the fans all over the world.

The fights are there,Joe only has to reach out and take them , Joe is the man now that everyone wants to see in the hard legacy fights , the other big names want them but Joe don't simple has that

viciousmaussa wrote:Hitman, I wanted to ask

Is Siaca rubbish because he lost to Branco?
Or is he rubbish because he lost to Mitchell?

Just curious

ha ha ha.

i don't know why i'm bothering with this.

your so set in your ways about this.

i didn't even look at siaca's record and i forgot he even boxed byron mitchell. mitchell of course is a former world champion and was stopped in 2 rds by calzaghe.

siaca isn't rubbish, he just isn't anything sodding special is he. mundine should be winning fights like that with 1, 2, 3 or 4 yrs pro experience.

i'm getting me coat.

coneye wrote: Ottke retired without taking Joe on , get facking real Joe never wanted the fight, just like he don't want Kessler,

It tells me , Calagzie don't want any decent opponents.

Mundine fallen short well , maybee so but at least he had a go , . Like I said when Mundine was a 12 fight novice he was fighting the guys Joe did'nt want,

Say what you will but Mundine dispite a couple of losses has won something Joe cannot RESPECT. from the fans all over the world.

The fights are there,Joe only has to reach out and take them , Joe is the man now that everyone wants to see in the hard legacy fights , the other big names want them but Joe don't simple has that

course it tells u everything.

he retired without taking on his biggest rival.

he walked out the backdoor without giving boxing fans what they wanted.

that proves he was more than happy with staying in germany and earning his money.

calzaghe should have ditched his title and became ottke's mandatory cos it was so obvious ottke was never interested.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

coneye wrote: Ottke retired without taking Joe on , get facking real Joe never wanted the fight, just like he don't want Kessler,

It tells me , Calagzie don't want any decent opponents.

Mundine fallen short well , maybee so but at least he had a go , . Like I said when Mundine was a 12 fight novice he was fighting the guys Joe did'nt want,

Say what you will but Mundine dispite a couple of losses has won something Joe cannot RESPECT. from the fans all over the world.

The fights are there,Joe only has to reach out and take them , Joe is the man now that everyone wants to see in the hard legacy fights , the other big names want them but Joe don't simple has that

course it tells u everything.

he retired without taking on his biggest rival.

he walked out the backdoor without giving boxing fans what they wanted.

that proves he was more than happy with staying in germany and earning his money.

calzaghe should have ditched his title and became ottke's mandatory cos it was so obvious ottke was never interested.

Hmmmm...... I recall that Calzaghe started calling Ottke out in 2003 AFTER the Larsen and Reid fights, when it become obvious to everyone that Ottke's legs were gone and that he was the taking for every top 5 super-middleweight (but even then FWarren didn't make more than a plain insulting money offer).

The prime Ottke of 1999/2000? Boy, Calzaghe never wanted a part of this fighter.

pundit wrote:[Hmmmm...... I recall that Calzaghe started calling Ottke out in 2003 AFTER the Larsen and Reid fights,

i remember sky sports asked ottke about calzaghe and he didn't even know who he was.

the guy was soooooo not interested.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:Hitman, I wanted to ask

Is Siaca rubbish because he lost to Branco?
Or is he rubbish because he lost to Mitchell?

Just curious

ha ha ha.

i don't know why i'm bothering with this.

your so set in your ways about this.

i didn't even look at siaca's record and i forgot he even boxed byron mitchell. mitchell of course is a former world champion and was stopped in 2 rds by calzaghe.

siaca isn't rubbish, he just isn't anything sodding special is he. mundine should be winning fights like that with 1, 2, 3 or 4 yrs pro experience.

i'm getting me coat.

Reason I asked was because I wanted to put the guy in some sort of perspective. Siaca has a rep for being a good fighter who's been unlucky, SD losses to Mitchell and Girard, premature stoppage loss to Mitchell also.

Also, being a Puerto Rican above the welterweight division is perhaps another stigma. Very few PRs do well in higher weight divisions.

I would say Siaca's worst loss was Branco. Two or three years removed from Siaca's prime. By a good, awkward foe. Interestingly, look at the margin that Branco beat Reid by. Much wider than the margin that Calzaghe beat Reid by, and Calzaghe could've easily lost that fight.


Apart from a WBO title and a protective promoter, and a sanctioning body that lets them do what they want, is Calzaghe really leagues above everyone else? Truly, I do not know. Because there has been little evidence.


Calzaghe has been managed very well. Too well, to the point that he's lost credibility. He's probably faced as many top fighters as, say, Mundine has. If Mundine did it without hype, without being protected for long periods, in 6 years, Calzaghe did it in 13 years. JC was brought along slowly and all his good wins are diluted by awful ones. Of course, that makes all the difference between a 'win some, lose some' record and a perfect slate. When there is no difference in talent.


I have no doubt that Ottke didn't want to face Calzaghe. But on the other hand, Joe has shown no inclination to fight Ottke. If he fails to fight Kessler, he will have ducked both of his equals in the super middleweight division.

viciousmaussa wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:Hitman, I wanted to ask

Is Siaca rubbish because he lost to Branco?
Or is he rubbish because he lost to Mitchell?

Just curious

ha ha ha.

i don't know why i'm bothering with this.

your so set in your ways about this.

i didn't even look at siaca's record and i forgot he even boxed byron mitchell. mitchell of course is a former world champion and was stopped in 2 rds by calzaghe.

siaca isn't rubbish, he just isn't anything sodding special is he. mundine should be winning fights like that with 1, 2, 3 or 4 yrs pro experience.

i'm getting me coat.

Reason I asked was because I wanted to put the guy in some sort of perspective. Siaca has a rep for being a good fighter who's been unlucky, SD losses to Mitchell and Girard, premature stoppage loss to Mitchell also.

Also, being a Puerto Rican above the welterweight division is perhaps another stigma. Very few PRs do well in higher weight divisions.

I would say Siaca's worst loss was Branco. Two or three years removed from Siaca's prime. By a good, awkward foe. Interestingly, look at the margin that Branco beat Reid by. Much wider than the margin that Calzaghe beat Reid by, and Calzaghe could've easily lost that fight.


Apart from a WBO title and a protective promoter, and a sanctioning body that lets them do what they want, is Calzaghe really leagues above everyone else? Truly, I do not know. Because there has been little evidence.


Calzaghe has been managed very well. Too well, to the point that he's lost credibility. He's probably faced as many top fighters as, say, Mundine has. If Mundine did it without hype, without being protected for long periods, in 6 years, Calzaghe did it in 13 years. JC was brought along slowly and all his good wins are diluted by awful ones. Of course, that makes all the difference between a 'win some, lose some' record and a perfect slate. When there is no difference in talent.


I have no doubt that Ottke didn't want to face Calzaghe. But on the other hand, Joe has shown no inclination to fight Ottke. If he fails to fight Kessler, he will have ducked both of his equals in the super middleweight division.

i've always agreed with the criticisms about calzaghe's career. but i do think people go overboard sometimes and end up slating the guy for everything he does.

when calzaghe has fought the better fighters he has always delivered in style. that is a fact we can't deny and that's why comparing him with mundine is bullshit.

i thought he beat reid by 2 pts and i'd have liked to have seen a rematch. sadly warren didn't want to oblige and we never got it.

the only way calzaghe could have forced ottke in the ring was going down the mandatory route. allegedly didn't want that cos he knew he'd lose a purse bids and not make fornicate all out of it.

hopefully calzaghe-kessler happens and the 2 promoters can come to terms on it.

hitman_hatton1 wrote: hopefully calzaghe-kessler happens and the 2 promoters can come to terms on it.

You know, I believe this fight needs to happen just because calzaghe needs to shed his reputation of avoiding dangerous fights. If if he loses but is game this will elevate his status, as he'll get acknowledgement as a real deal. Great fighters can lose at times, but great fighters do not run from the real challenges.

pundit wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote: hopefully calzaghe-kessler happens and the 2 promoters can come to terms on it.

You know, I believe this fight needs to happen just because calzaghe needs to shed his reputation of avoiding dangerous fights. If if he loses but is game this will elevate his status, as he'll get acknowledgement as a real deal. Great fighters can lose at times, but great fighters do not run from the real challenges.

Pundit, I think it's too late for Calzaghe to lose a fight.

His whole game thrives on him being "unbeatable", "never beaten since the amateurs when I started crying & never wanted to feel that way again".

If he loses he might be devastated. A loss would hit him hard.

I give him credit for his fitness & longevity, but he would never be the same when the defeat comes.

We saw what happened when Fenech got an unlucky draw against Azumah Nelson. Fenech had beaten top drawer opponents (Steve McCrory, Juan Laporte, Daniel Zaragoza, Samart Payakarun, Mario Martinez, Marcos Villasana, Victor Callejas). And yet when he only got a 'draw' he was never the same again.

Calzaghe's had things his way too much.