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Posted: 19 Nov 2006, 14:05
by Tantum
Hey Barry... How about a Top 100 weakest punchers ever?
Posted: 19 Nov 2006, 15:33
by DoubleM
J-C wrote:DoubleM wrote:A good set of names. Some more worthy of consideration - Rodrigo Valdez, Lennox Lewis, Andy Ganigan, Maxie Rosenbloom, Ike Williams.
That one is a joke surely?
Eh?
Posted: 19 Nov 2006, 15:52
by JC
DoubleM wrote:J-C wrote:DoubleM wrote:A good set of names. Some more worthy of consideration - Rodrigo Valdez, Lennox Lewis, Andy Ganigan, Maxie Rosenbloom, Ike Williams.
That one is a joke surely?
Eh?
Slapsie Maxie was a notoriously light puncher, he's got 19 KOs in 210 wins.
Posted: 19 Nov 2006, 15:55
by Senya13
One of the ways to make this list better would be naming, say, 5 best KO wins by each fighter on it.
Posted: 19 Nov 2006, 16:49
by DoubleM
J-C wrote:DoubleM wrote:J-C wrote:
That one is a joke surely?
Eh?
Slapsie Maxie was a notoriously light puncher, he's got 19 KOs in 210 wins.
Je ne comprends pas. Rosenbloom was a very hard puncher.
Posted: 20 Nov 2006, 03:19
by Jaclem
...in his light heavy days....and pre-baroudi....ezzard charles was a terrific hitter. it will annoy boxbuzz but he was a harder puncher than archbie moore. a ring magiazine i can't find has nat fleischer rating him at the top of active and past lightheavies with the greatest kayo percentage.
..a friend of mine fought charlie riley. i asked him if chilling charlie was a hard hitter.....he said being hit by him was like "falling head first out of a building."
..when artie levine floored sugar ray robinson everyone in the arena saw the sugar man getting a long count...ah one...and ah two....and ray was up but groggy. typical though of the great one, he came back to cold cock levine....who did have a big weight advantage. artie had a terible time keeping from kayoing billy fox when he wasin there to tank it.....at the "request" of some in the fox camp....artie had to hold him up a couple of times from punches levine didn't even think were his best. ..until he finally got swatted by something that looked good enough for him to lie down with decent acting skills.
Posted: 20 Nov 2006, 06:46
by DoubleM
Decagon wrote:Does Ring magazine still give out the "Slappy" Roosenbloom Award for the lightest hitting fighter in boxing?
What?
And I used to respect that magazine...
Posted: 20 Nov 2006, 10:45
by scartissue
Barry, you missed a fighter who I would have in my top 20. The Venezuelan Jr. Welter champ Carlos Hernandez whose power was absolutely chilling. Knocked out Joe Brown, Teo Cruz, Davey Moore (broke his jaw), Kenny Lane, Bunny Grant, Alfredo Urbina, Paolo Rosi (KO, not cuts) and Baby Vasquez. These guys were extremely durable. For instance, Teo Cruz was stopped only twice, on cuts to Mando Ramos and KO to Hernandez. Grant was only stopped twice in over 80 fights. At the end of his career to Clyde Gray and in his prime by KO to Hernandez. Also, in losing efforts he decked the rock-jawed Eddie Perkins, Jose Napoles and Nicolino Loche. Definitely an all time great puncher.
Scartissue
Posted: 20 Nov 2006, 12:49
by red rose
i dont care what anyone says but tyson has got to be no 1 . when tyson hit a guy funny things happened to their bodys ie berbick and tubbs.
Posted: 20 Nov 2006, 13:17
by DoubleM
red rose wrote:i dont care what anyone says but tyson has got to be no 1 . when tyson hit a guy funny things happened to their bodys ie berbick and tubbs.
You can't have seen a lot of great punchers if you think Tyson was definitely #1.
Posted: 20 Nov 2006, 13:40
by The Durable Dane
You missed Battling Nelson
Posted: 20 Nov 2006, 16:04
by red rose
DoubleM wrote:red rose wrote:i dont care what anyone says but tyson has got to be no 1 . when tyson hit a guy funny things happened to their bodys ie berbick and tubbs.
You can't have seen a lot of great punchers if you think Tyson was definitely #1.
why shouldnt tyson be one . he is the only man ever to knock out pinklon thomas, michael spinks and larry holmes . Trevor berbick hasnt been knocked out since tyson knocked him out. The first man to knock out tony tubbs and francois botha and the only man to knock down brian nielsen. He also knocked down buster douglas with an arm punch.
Posted: 20 Nov 2006, 16:23
by DoubleM
red rose wrote:DoubleM wrote:red rose wrote:i dont care what anyone says but tyson has got to be no 1 . when tyson hit a guy funny things happened to their bodys ie berbick and tubbs.
You can't have seen a lot of great punchers if you think Tyson was definitely #1.
why shouldnt tyson be one . he is the only man ever to knock out pinklon thomas, michael spinks and larry holmes . Trevor berbick hasnt been knocked out since tyson knocked him out. The first man to knock out tony tubbs and francois botha and the only man to knock down brian nielsen. He also knocked down buster douglas with an arm punch.
You know that 'power' is only one weapon in a great puncher's arsenal?
Like I'd say Joe Louis was a greater puncher than George Foreman, but Foreman was probably the harder puncher. Louis, however, had the extra speed to sneak his punches in, the technique to string combinations together, the accuracy to land his shots on the right targets, which is why he stopped many, many durable fighters. First man to knock down Tony Galento, first man to stop Paolino Uzcudun, first man to drop & stop Arturo Godoy, first man to drop & stop Max Baer - there are another six or seven examples like that. I had a list somewhere.
You are confusing sheer power with overall punching ability.
He also knocked down buster douglas with an arm punch.
Oh come off it. You can do better than that.
Posted: 20 Nov 2006, 22:30
by Les Darcy
Good to see Vic Patrick make the list.
re
Posted: 21 Nov 2006, 05:43
by barry
>>>How about a Top 100 weakest punchers ever?<<<
We've actually compiled a list similar..."The Lowest KO% of All-Time," which lists a slew of fighters with a lot of fights and very, very few KO's.
Posted: 21 Nov 2006, 05:53
by Ezzard
What a great effort, Barry.
My thoughts are:
Too High
Chavez should be lower than Duran, Arguello, Rosario and Hamed
Cuevas should be below Mugabi, Hearns, Fernandez and Jackson
Too Low
Hearns might deserve a higher ranking for decimating previously iron jawed fighters.
McClellan was a monster puncher.
Mike Spinks? He ahd a great right hand.
Posted: 22 Nov 2006, 00:02
by Ambling Alp
This list certainly has a lot of hard punchers. It's always difficult doing a list this extensive, including guys from all weight classes in well over a 100 year time span.
As mentioned by others, Lewis and Frazier need to be on this list. If you are judging this literally pound for pound then Lewis' size would work against him and possibly he wouldn't make it. However if all heavyweights are counted as the same, then Lewis would have to be very high.
I would also add Liston and certainly Aaron Pryor.
I was also surprised at Maher being being # 5 and Bombardier Billy Wells at # 38, both seem too high.
Still, it was an interesting list. There are a lot names of guys that you don't hear much about anymore.
Posted: 22 Nov 2006, 04:05
by Sweet Scientist
Nice list...but Sonny Liston belongs on it!
Posted: 22 Nov 2006, 14:49
by The Durable Dane
Butterbean
8) 8) 8)
Posted: 22 Nov 2006, 16:04
by Parm
scartissue wrote:Barry, you missed a fighter who I would have in my top 20. The Venezuelan Jr. Welter champ Carlos Hernandez whose power was absolutely chilling. Knocked out Joe Brown, Teo Cruz, Davey Moore (broke his jaw), Kenny Lane, Bunny Grant, Alfredo Urbina, Paolo Rosi (KO, not cuts) and Baby Vasquez. These guys were extremely durable. For instance, Teo Cruz was stopped only twice, on cuts to Mando Ramos and KO to Hernandez. Grant was only stopped twice in over 80 fights. At the end of his career to Clyde Gray and in his prime by KO to Hernandez. Also, in losing efforts he decked the rock-jawed Eddie Perkins, Jose Napoles and Nicolino Loche. Definitely an all time great puncher.
Scartissue
I couldn't agree more, Hernandez should definitely be on the list. Good list though, Barry.
Re: 100 Hardest Punching Fighters of All-Time
Posted: 22 Nov 2006, 17:20
by Martin Sosa Cameron
barry wrote:Being that I have never tried to compile any lists over Top 20, or Top 30, I figured that I might as well try to put together a Top 100 list and see how challenging it would be to do so. Well...it's very challenging and though I have 100 listed in order, I still have a bit of re-arranging to do to the lower 50. Right now the 100 fighters that I picked will pretty much remain, though I may add a fighter and drop one a couple of times, but for the most part the 100 listed now are the 100 that I want to keep. Now 1 through 10 is pretty solid and pretty much as I want it and the same can be said for 11 thru 20, but the rest gets a bit tricky! Anyway, below is my list of the “100 Hardest Punching Fighters of All-Time.”
100 Hardest Punching Fighters of All-Time
1 Sam Langford
2 Bob Fitzsimmons
3 Jimmy Wilde
4 “Barbados” Joe Walcott
5 Peter Maher
6 Ruben Olivares
7 Terry McGovern
8 George Chaney
9 Earnie Shavers
10 Carlos Zarate
11 Danny Lopez
12 Aurelio Herrera
13 Jack Dempsey
14 Bob Satterfield
15 Ricardo Moreno
16 Pipino Cuevas
17 Stanley Ketchel
18 Julian Jackson
19 Wilfredo Gomez
20 Henry Armstrong
21 Sandy Saddler
22 Joe Louis
23 Al Foreman
24 Bob Foster
25 Jesus Pimentel
26 Max Baer
27 Florentino Fernandez
28 Tommy Gomez
29 George Foreman
30 Khaosai Galaxy
31 Thomas Hearns
32 Archie Moore
33 Vic Patrick
34 “Sugar” Ray Robinson
35 Charley Retzlaff
36 Julio Cesar Chavez
37 Charles Ledoux
38 “Bombardier” Billy Wells
39 Jaime Garza
40 John Mugabi
41 Bob Murphy
42 Alfonso Zamora
43 Alexis Arguello
44 George Odwell
45 Jack Dillon
46 Rodolfo Gonzalez
47 Atilio Caraune
48 Mike Tyson
49 “Tiger” Jack Fox
50 Mike Cleary
51 Ray Actis
52 Curtis Sheppard
53 Rocky Marciano
54 Young Otto
55 Roberto Duran
56 Lew Jenkins
57 Eder Jofre
58 Nigel Benn
59 Joe Gans
60 Rocky Graziano
61 Gerald McClellan
62 Edwin Rosario
63 Naseem Hamed
64 Jock McAvoy
65 Eduardo Lausse
66 Charley Riley
67 Harry Balsamo
68 Jose Maria Gatica
69 Young Mitchell
70 Sam McVey
71 Tommy Collins
72 Billy Petrolle
73 Tommy Burns
74 Rafael Merentino
75 Charley Burley
76 Paul Berlenbach
77 Art Aragon
78 Jackie Paterson
79 Wilfredo Vazquez
80 Pat Killen
81 Mickey Walker
82 Marvin Johnson
83 George Godfrey
84 Eric Boon
85 Ricardo Lopez
86 Pascual Perez
87 Jose Luis Ramirez
88 Alabama Kid
89 In-Chul Baek
90 Jimmy Barry
91 Tony Mundine
92 Phil Zwick
93 Allen Matthews
94 Fernando Gagnon
95 Knockout Brown
96 George Kapeen
97 Chango Carmona
98 Chong Pal Park
99 Joey DeJohn
100 Al “Bummy” Davis
Let the disagreements begin!!!
Great, great list, and great, great work, Barry; only you and not many others possess the knowledge for to do it; in example, remembering a very dangerous fighter like Bummy Davis.
I hope José Carattoli is in the ratings until the #110; and between the 150 Alfonso Zamora, Peter Kane, Jorge Fernández and Sean O'Grady, may be?
It's an amazing job!
Posted: 23 Nov 2006, 16:16
by Martin Sosa Cameron
José Bruno and Alberto Reyes
re
Posted: 23 Nov 2006, 19:46
by barry
José Carattoli and Jose Bruno were in the big list that I had and honestly out of 700, or 800 there are easily 50 others who I did not list that just as easily and rightfully so take the place of 50 that I did list.
I believe I should have listed José Carattoli instead of Atilio Caraune, but as I said...there could be 50 different fighters added to a list like this and it would be just as relevant.
Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 00:03
by JCS
barry
Have you made a P4P list of this size yet? I'd be interested to see it.
re
Posted: 25 Nov 2006, 04:41
by barry
What size? 700, or 800? I have all the fighters that I chose the 100 from listed, but in no kind of order...I've just got them all listed!