BoxRec

Since the conclusion of the Liston, Ali and Holmes eras Bruce Seldon had one of, if not thee, best heavyweight jab. IMO.

KURTZSPORTS wrote:Since the conclusion of the Liston, Ali and Holmes eras Bruce Seldon had one of, if not thee, best heavyweight jab. IMO.

Seldon is an interesting pick. I think most people are only thinking of the all time greats.
Carl "The Truth" Williams also had a very good jab.

Some of these guys are hard to rate. Lennox Lewis at times showed a very good jab. However, sometimes he would just paw with it.

Decagon wrote:Does anyone besides me think that Louis's jab is overrated? I mean, it was a great punch, but he never stopped dropping the left after throwing it.

No...you're the only one...

Just about Holmes for me,he even floored Ocasio with a jab, the only time this happened in heavyweight title fight (that I can remember anyway, i'm sure someone can think of another)

Louis, Ali, Foreman and Liston not far behind.

Decagon wrote:I'm serious.

...so am I...

Decagon wrote: A prime Schmeling would always be a tough fight for Louis.

...guess you missed the rematch...

Syntax Error wrote:I've recently been labelled an idiot on here by a pseudo-intellectual for suggesting that Sonny Liston & Larry Holmes had the 2 best jabs in the history of the division.

Who do you all think are the best jabbers in the HW division's history?

I've have listed who I think are the master jabbers, but if you disagree with my choices, then I have chosen an 'other' option for you to name one fighter.

sorry but why did you include ezzard charles on the list and not walcott? walcott defintley had the superior jab than ezzard charles if your talking about the "heavyweight divisions best jabs". walcott belongs on the list, he had a great jab. charles jab wasnt as effective vs heavyweights as walcotts was

Decagon wrote:Off the top of my head:

• 1. Larry Holmes
  2. Joe Louis
  3. Ezzard Charles
  4. Sonny Liston
  5. Muhammad Ali
  6. Gene Tunney
  7. Jack Johnson
  8. Pinklon Thomas
  9. Ernie Terrel
  10. George Foreman (ranked low because of lack of use when he got in trouble)

I'm probably forgetting a few.

walcott had a better jab than charles at heavyweight

Jaclem wrote:...joe louis. short,long, speed,accuracy, power..when he was fighting on fumes against schmelling he was still landing it....whenhe was all washed up he was effective for a while against marciano....when he was past his prime and lost big he still busted up ezzard charles with it ....best jab ever.

ha...ha....i noticed a slight diversion to his post, almost "marciano bash" in his post without trying to make it look obvious.

he says "when he was all washed up he was effective for a while against marciano" and then jaclem says "when he was past his prime and lost big he still busted up ezzard charles".

notice how he says louis was washed up when he fought marciano, yet he says louis was only 'past his prime' when he fought charles. however facts show that the marciano-louis fight took place only months after louis-charles fight took place. its safe to say louis was every bit as washed up vs charles as vs marciano. though this poster believes louis was more rusty, and more out of shape when he fought charles than in 1951 when his timing, shape appeared better.




old buddy jaclem, always tryin to pull a fast one :P :P




though to adress this post, everything jaclem said about louis jab is correct.

sonny liston, joe louis, and larry holmes are the 3 obvious choices for me.


if i had to pick one, i would go with liston. it was incredible powerful, suprisingly accurate, extremley long 84", and at its peak he delivered it with some speed. it was by far the most physically menacing jab in history.


my vote sonny liston



- joe louis simply didnt use it enough when he was in his prime. when louis actually used it alot, it was probably the best in history. certainly the most technically polished jab, incredible snap on it, powerful, it had everything.

brockton buddy......yeah...louis was more ring rusty when he fought charles....but in his fight with marciano..although he had run off a bunch of wins..he was much older than the year betewen the fights indicates. he had aged considerably in that time. just look at him in each fight. not much of a disagreement with you though..as marciano was stronger and younger and just too tough for louis at that stage.....the point i was trying to make that even with the bulling shorter marciano louis' jab was still in play. (a confession...i'll admit i did spend more than a few minutes deciding which adjective to describe louis' stage of....ah..deteriation in each fight. okay...you caught me....but i'll still argue that louis was a better fighter when he fought ezzard than when he fought rocky.)

have to disagree with you on walcott's jab....as the left jab was not a major part of walcott's aresenal. he fought mostly with his hands down...and was more inclined to use his tricky footwork and upper body movement for both defense and offense...he liked to counter with left hooks and right hands that he usually threw in an arc....both from outside and from in closer, when it was almost like a hook.

decagon....i'll go into louis' jab in another post. for now, let us just say that i think every one of his opponents would have been happier if the bomber hadn't used it at all.

Decagon wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:- joe louis simply didnt use it enough when he was in his prime. when louis actually used it alot, it was probably the best in history. certainly the most technically polished jab, incredible snap on it, powerful, it had everything.

The less he used the jab, the better he did.

A rarely daft proposition.

Decagon wrote:

Sweet Scientist wrote:...guess you missed the rematch...

Schmeling was in his prime in 1938?

...close enough...to last more than two minutes against most fighters...

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:I've recently been labelled an idiot on here by a pseudo-intellectual for suggesting that Sonny Liston & Larry Holmes had the 2 best jabs in the history of the division.

Who do you all think are the best jabbers in the HW division's history?

I've have listed who I think are the master jabbers, but if you disagree with my choices, then I have chosen an 'other' option for you to name one fighter.

sorry but why did you include ezzard charles on the list and not walcott? walcott defintley had the superior jab than ezzard charles if your talking about the "heavyweight divisions best jabs". walcott belongs on the list, he had a great jab. charles jab wasnt as effective vs heavyweights as walcotts was

Fair point you make there.

I can't argue with you.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:sorry but why did you include ezzard charles on the list and not walcott? walcott defintley had the superior jab than ezzard charles if your talking about the "heavyweight divisions best jabs". walcott belongs on the list, he had a great jab. charles jab wasnt as effective vs heavyweights as walcotts was

Although I would say Charles' jab on a pound-for-pound scale rates pretty high.

Ezzard wrote:

kick asner wrote:Riddock Bowe had a great jab. Quick and powerful with a good reach. He used it well in setting up his other punches.

Too inconsistent for me, Kick. When he used it he was a formidable opponent, but too often he neglected it. In a way ot sort of sums up his career. When he was on it though that jab was like a pole.

You could describe George Foreman's jab in almost identical terms.

For me it boils down to this: in head-to-head matchups among all the candidates, which outjabs the most of his his peers? To me it comes down to prime Holmes vs. prime Ali, and I'd call that one a tossup.

No way does any shorter guy like Charles (much as I respect his skills) outjab a really fast-handed true big man who knew how to use his height and was mobile enough to jab from all kinds of angles.

Syntax Error wrote:I've recently been labelled an idiot on here by a pseudo-intellectual for suggesting that Sonny Liston & Larry Holmes had the 2 best jabs in the history of the division.

Who do you all think are the best jabbers in the HW division's history?

I've have listed who I think are the master jabbers, but if you disagree with my choices, then I have chosen an 'other' option for you to name one fighter.

Looks like you have been vindicated.

Larry Holmes, though Muhammad Ali, Pinklon Thomas, Greg Page, and Carl Williams were no slouches either.

Decagon wrote:

Sweet Scientist wrote:...guess you missed the rematch...

Schmeling was in his prime in 1938?

yes sir, schmeling had not shown any signs of aging since 1936

I think Louis just edges out Holmes for the best jab in my opinion. It was technically perfect and really snapped his opponents heads back.

Decagon wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Decagon wrote:Schmeling was in his prime in 1938?

yes sir, schmeling had not shown any signs of aging since 1936

So you're saying that Schmeling had already aged?

no re-read my post. it implies that schmeling was in his prime in 1936, and by 1938 he still had not yet aged.


schmeling IMO wasnt past his prime till he retired in 1939. schmeling really had a LONNNGG PRIME

Schmeling must have been just about the only fighter ever to actually stop time. There's a billion women out there who wish they could do the same thing to stop their wrinkles.

Decagon wrote:If you lose to Steve Hamas and get knocked out by a loser like Max Baer, you're past your prime. Without the overhand right after every jab Louis threw, Schmeling wouldn't have done well at all.

Schmeling "destroyed" Hamas in their rematch in 1935. And at that point I think he would have beaten Baer as well.

and so if Schmeling is not allowed to through his right hand....he wouldn't be Max Schmeling annymore.

Schmeling lost the rematch cause Louis was in his absolutely prime in 1938 and because of the different circumstances of the fight (the most hatred atmosphere a boxer ever had to face I think, his Mannager banned....).

I'm so glad that you've included Pinklon Thomas in the list.

Because he is not an all-time great, he gets overlooked, but he certainly had one of the finest jabs I've ever seen

I've voted for Larry Holmes, because he could control an entire fight with his jab.

Which pseudo-intellectual (as you put it ) scoffed at your notion that Holmes & Liston had the best heavyweight jabs?

Looks like a lot of people agree with you.

That poster must be slightly embarrassed, even if this thread is ancient!!!!! :P

I voted for Larry.

I also think that Foreman, Liston and Louis had great
powerful jabs. In his come back Foreman was able to
buckle guys knee's with his jab.

I think Ali had a fast, but rather in-effective jab, he was
just very active with it and used it as an attritional weapon.

I also liked Riddick Bowe's jab, when he threw it he was able
to land it with force and power. It was a weapon in itself.
I would rank his jab personally.

Kym

I'm split between Holmes and Lewis. Holmes' jab was quicker than Lewis' and stiffer than Ali's. On the other hand, along with having a stiffer jab Lewis had a four or five inch reach edge on Holmes, which makes a difference.